$1.65-bn SAR aircraft deal likely to take off during Modi’s Japan visit

[Indo-guy]

That is incredibly cussed. No one and I mean no one could have got us that deal but the U.S. (we owe George Bush plenty for that) And what exactly did we do? We did nothing for the U.S. and got the deal of a lifetime.


Easy my friend, calling others fools doesn't make it so.

we may not have done anything as big as delivering NSG clearance ...but I repeat US did that to subserve its own interest and not out of love for India .

Don't be carried away by emotions... think calmly you will realize ...this is just a part of move and countermoves on big game of geo-political chess .

If US could allow Sino-Pakistani grandfathering agreement ..why did it object to similar agreement between India and Russia ?


why are you so apologetic and pessimistic ...You think NSG which was formed solely after India's nuclear tests ..to isolate country like India ...which made an exception for India ultimately ...because out of sheer love for India .

and do you think without US assistance it would have never been possible for India to break through .

Today country like China is able to make mockery of institution like NSG based on its own clout ....

what you expect India to do for US for securing NSG clearance ..bind itself in servitude of lifetime ...for a life time deal ???

Please brother ...shed this lack of confidence and self respect !

 

[Bang Galore]

we may not have done anything as big as delivering NSG clearance ...but I repeat US did that to subserve its own interest and not out of love for India .

a bit of love (from George W.)....but even if it wasn't, we benefited. And didn't deliver our part of the bargain. Nothing wrong whatsoever in serving your own interests, not as if every other country is doing charity with India.

Maybe.
Maybe even MMS might have tilted that way. But Antony did not. He just stuck to the book which was the criteria (600 of them?) for the down-select which was the technical appraisal done by the IAF.

Nope. Antony did what all of UPA's major ministers did, which was to behave as if he was PM of defence. He let the PM hang out to dry. Destroyed his credibility with the U.S. Like a lot of other "correct" things he did, he simply didn't seem to bother about consequences. Why we are in a soup on a whole bunch of issues, all that going by the book stuff.........

 

[Indo-guy]

a bit of love (from George W.)....but even if it wasn't, we benefited. And didn't deliver our part of the bargain. Nothing wrong whatsoever in serving your own interests, not as if every other country is doing charity with India.

WE HAVE NOT BENIFITED FROM NSG CLEARANCE SO FAR, DESPITE SO MANY YEARS SINCE IT WAS GRANTED TO INDIA .

Our only benefit is symbolism and namesake exception !

Pakistan in its sharp contrast continues to enjoy similar perks without any obligations from NSG due to deliberate silence of US and rest of the NSG member countries which let China and Pakistan formalize Grandfathering agreement .

 

[Bang Galore]

wmately ...because out of sheer love for India .

and do you think without US assistance it would have never been possible for India to break through .

Not a chance.(George Bush worked lines at night to get the Chinese to buckle)

what you expect India to do for US for securing NSG clearance ..bind itself in servitude of lifetime ...for a life time deal ???

Nope, just repay what we got.

Please brother ...shed this lack of confidence and self respect !

"Self respect & confidence" isn't demonstrated by being afraid of shadows & being scared of wolves about to swallow you. We have a different perception of what constitutes what.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Nope. Antony did what all of UPA's major ministers did, which was to behave as if he was PM of defence. He let the PM hang out to dry. Destroyed his credibility with the U.S. Like a lot of other "correct" things he did, he simply didn't seem to bother about consequences. Why we are in a soup on a whole bunch of issues, all that going by the book stuff.........

No I do not agree. That deal was tied up on technical criteria and was better off even based on IAF requirements. And if the good ol' Unca Sam and MMS thought that everything else was simply a "shoo-in" then they had something else coming at them and it did finally.

Remember that: There are no Altruistic Reasons in Statecraft, just as there was not in MMS's crowning glory of the Nuclear Deal.

 

[Bang Galore]

WE HAVE NOT BENIFITED FROM NSG CLEARANCE SO FAR, DESPITE SO MANY YEARS SINCE IT WAS GRANTED TO INDIA .

Our only benefit is symbolism and namesake exception !
.

Really? Do you know how much more secure is your Uranium reserves? Do you think they magically appeared?

No I do not agree. That deal was tied up on technical criteria and was better off even based on IAF requirements. And if the good ol' Unca Sam and MMS thought that everything else was simply a "shoo-in" then they had something else coming at them and it did finally..

No, the reason the MMRCA deal was looked at was because the government messed up with the nuclear liabilities part and had still to reward the US. I have reservations with the Rafale deal, anything decided without the costs being calculated was crazy anyways. This is costing us hell.

Remember that: There are no Altruistic Reasons in Statecraft, just as there was not in MMS's crowning glory of the Nuclear Deal

Exactly which is why there is always a bitter taste in the mouth when debt isn't repaid. No free lunches.......

 

[Capt.Popeye]

No, the reason the MMRCA deal was looked at was because the government messed up with the nuclear liabilities part and had still to reward the US. I have reservations with the Rafale deal, anything decided without the costs being calculated was crazy anyways. This is costing us hell.



Exactly which is why there is always a bitter taste in the mouth when debt isn't repaid. No free lunches.......

There is no debt, so why assume that there is one.
That deal was not made between a Patron and a Client, that kind of relationship will never work. More so since India has reached a stature of 'critical mass'. The Americans wisely woke upto that and went forward.

 

[Bang Galore]

There is no debt, so why assume that there is one.
That deal was not made between a Patron and a Client, that kind of relationship will never work. More so since India has reached a stature of 'critical mass'. The Americans wisely woke upto that and went forward.

We disagree. either it was charity (which we both agree it was not) or there was an expectation of a return on that investment.

 

[Sergi]

.



@Abingdonboy , @sandy_3126 , @he-man , @Sergi

Your comments, please !

AFAIK I dont think we know everything. There got to be something that we dont know. Otherwise IN spending a good load of money for something lime this is above me. Others might see possibilites in it as is . I failed to see anything like the way we know right now

 

[Capt.Popeye]

We disagree. either it was charity (which we both agree it was not) or there was an expectation of a return on that investment.

If that expectation was beyond delivery; then it was misplaced or that (so-called) investment can be considered to be a "Dud".
The problem that has always plagued the US POV is that there is a tendency of looking at things in the "short-term". As somebody once very tellingly said: the Americans have no sense of History. Wish they would learn that atleast from the Europeans if they will not condescend to learn from the East.

 

[Sergi]

First :life cycle costs are lower. Reliability of the system is higher.
Second : Operating envelope of the aircraft is much larger.

Initial cost may be larger, but overall cost and operating map benefits compared to other aircraft led to selection of this a/c.

Maruti gypsy can be used as an offroad vehicle and so can be a Range rover sport, but the cost difference will be immense between the two.

Considering the funds availability and forcing needs saying IN will spend on these for mo special reason is above me. I would spend this money on off-shelf subs in new sun tender unless there is something special in that for me

 

[Bang Galore]

If that expectation was beyond delivery; then it was misplaced or that (so-called) investment can be considered to be a "Dud".
The problem that has always plagued the US POV is that there is a tendency of looking at things in the "short-term". As somebody once very tellingly said: the Americans have no sense of History. Wish they would learn that atleast from the Europeans if they will not condescend to learn from the East.

It depends how you look at it. The U.S. was promised a couple of deals in the nuclear space, the failure was not theirs. They delivered, we didn't. A messy situation but one in which we had a significant part to play.

 

[MilSpec]

Considering the funds availability and forcing needs saying IN will spend on these for mo special reason is above me. I would spend this money on off-shelf subs in new sun tender unless there is something special in that for me

Was there any tax reforms? Boss we still pay the same taxes, GoI has no issues with the funds. They will buy what they want...

 

[Sergi]

Was there any tax reforms? Boss we still pay the same taxes, GoI has no issues with the funds. They will buy what they want...

Its of IN's share Sir. And in their control too. Just assume you are IN chief whats your priority.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

It depends how you look at it. The U.S. was promised a couple of deals in the nuclear space, the failure was not theirs. They delivered, we didn't. A messy situation but one in which we had a significant part to play.

What kind of "deals" are you talking about?
Do please note that; the French and Russians stepped in and got deals for themselves. So what worked for them and did not work for the Americans?