The Islamic Conquest of India Prophecy (Ghazwa-e-Hind)

[Godman]

No, there is not a single shred of evidence of mass rape occurring. Yes, they took slaves and yes, the would often have intercourse with them. But there's no evidence that they were forced into it. In fact, there's evidence that contradicts that very statement.

Unless you are saying the invaders took their time asking the consent from girls taking refuge inside Hagia Sophia before having sex with them then its rape. Rape was a common thing back then it makes no sense for you to deny one of the biggest known instances of mass rape committed by the Ottoman Empire while accusing Hindus of doing it. Saying "there is no shed of evidence" of mass rape in a incident known for mass rape is rather stupid. Its like saying "there is no evidence of murder" when a murderer was not only seen murdering a person but the whole thing went on media

 

[Hamza913]

Unless you are saying the invaders took their time asking the consent from girls

That's exactly what they did. You are Islamically required to either wait 1 month before engaging with intercourse with them, or wait until they give birth if they are pregnant. You also cannot force them to have sex with you (unless you want to receive capital punishment).

There is also no evidence of a large number of female captives showing dissatisfaction with their situation.

 

[LASER1]

Well, considering most of the other ones in the Quran and Sunnah have come true, I wouldn't be laughing if I were you.

I know what you're gonna say, the classic fingerprint invention and stuff. That's how you guys make the connection to science. Please spare me that.

In the 5th and 6th century (The golden age of subcontinent), our ancestors started solving complex mathematical equations, astronomical data, did surgery on humans (such as cataract) and animals, invented medicines even for trees. Together with the ancient Chinese. What's next, Ghazwa e Chin? Now you're selling us some random prophecies made by god knows who. It's mostly thrown around by South Asian, and you ask Muslims outside this subcontinent, they might not have heard of it.

 

[Godman]

That's exactly what they did. You are Islamically required to either wait 1 month before engaging with intercourse with them, or wait until they give birth if they are pregnant. You also cannot force them to have sex with you (unless you want to receive capital punishment).

There is also no evidence of a large number of female captives showing dissatisfaction with their situation.

When did three days became one month? Do you even know what happened inside when the Ottomans stormed Hagia Sophia? They didn't wait an entire month in the church, Mehmed only gave three days to loot the city and all the raping ,pillaging and looting happened during that period. Even Mehmed accepted that the Ottoman soldiers went way past the red line after seeing the state of the city on the third day. You know about this right?
The pillaging and raping carried out during the siege of Constantinople is part of world history. Pretty much everyone who studied it knows the atrocities Ottomans carried out during the three days.

The most famous eye witness accounts of the siege state
The enraged Turkish soldiers . . . gave no quarter. When they had massacred and there was no longer any resistance, they were intent on pillage and roamed through the town stealing, disrobing, pillaging, killing, raping, taking captive men, women, children, old men, young men, monks, priests, people of all sorts and conditions . . . There were virgins who awoke from troubled sleep to find those brigands standing over them with bloody hands and faces full of abject fury. This medley of all nations, these frantic brutes stormed into their houses, dragged them, tore them, forced them, dishonored them, raped them at the cross-roads and made them submit to the most terrible outrages. It is even said that at the mere sight of them many girls were so stupefied that they almost gave up the ghost


Mehmed actually cried after seeing what happened and its all in history.

 

[Hamza913]

When did three days became one month? Do you even know what happened inside when the Ottomans stormed Hagia Sophia? They didn't wait an entire month in the church, Mehmed only gave three days to loot the city and all the raping ,pillaging and looting happened during that period. Even Mehmed accepted that the Ottoman soldiers went way past the red line after seeing the state of the city on the third day. You know about this right?
The pillaging and raping carried out during the siege of Constantinople is part of world history. Pretty much everyone who studied it knows the atrocities Ottomans carried out during the three days.

The most famous eye witness accounts of the siege state
The enraged Turkish soldiers . . . gave no quarter. When they had massacred and there was no longer any resistance, they were intent on pillage and roamed through the town stealing, disrobing, pillaging, killing, raping, taking captive men, women, children, old men, young men, monks, priests, people of all sorts and conditions . . . There were virgins who awoke from troubled sleep to find those brigands standing over them with bloody hands and faces full of abject fury. This medley of all nations, these frantic brutes stormed into their houses, dragged them, tore them, forced them, dishonored them, raped them at the cross-roads and made them submit to the most terrible outrages. It is even said that at the mere sight of them many girls were so stupefied that they almost gave up the ghost


Mehmed actually cried after seeing what happened and its all in history.

That's just one battle, and as you said, Mehmet Al Fatih himself said it was wrong.

 

[Godman]

That's just one battle, and as you said, Mehmet Al Fatih himself said it was wrong.

The fact is Muslim invaders also carried out mass rape, regardless of what Mehmed wanted. Also none of the soldiers were punished because a huge number of soldiers participated in the crimes. Such incidents were pretty common across the world regardless of religion. Changing religion and race doesn't change human nature

 

[Hamza913]

I know what you're gonna say, the classic fingerprint invention and stuff. That's how you guys make the connection to science. Please spare me that.

In the 5th and 6th century (The golden age of subcontinent), our ancestors started solving complex mathematical equations, astronomical data, did surgery on humans (such as cataract) and animals, invented medicines even for trees. Together with the ancient Chinese. What's next, Ghazwa e Chin? Now you're selling us some random prophecies made by god knows who. It's mostly thrown around by South Asian, and you ask Muslims outside this subcontinent, they might not have heard of it.

No, I wasn't (although that's part of it). I was going to bring up stuff like this:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him) as saying: The Last Hour will not come before wealth becomes abundant and overflowing, so much so that a man takes Zakat out of his property and cannot find anyone to accept it from him and till the land of Arabia becomes meadows and rivers. [Muslim Book 005, Number 2208]

https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/saudi-green.html

http://islamiat101.blogspot.com/2014/01/signs-of-last-hour-arabia-will-become.html

Sahih Bukhari Volume 009, Book 088, Hadith Number 232.
Narrated By Abu Huraira : Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established till the buttocks of the women of the tribe of Daus move while going round Dhi-al-Khalasa." Dhi-al-Khalasa was the idol of the Daus tribe which they used to worship in the Pre Islamic Period of ignorance.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yWzcsddrx_wC&pg=PA146&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

“Among my ummah there will certainly be people who permit zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments…” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari ta’leeqan, no. 5590; narrated as mawsool by al-Tabaraani and al-Bayhaqi. See al-Silsilah al-Saheehah by al-Albaani, 91).

I can provide more hadees that have successfully predicted things to come if you wish, including the ones that mention scientific knowledge that Rasulullah (Peace Be Upon Him) couldn't have (or was at the least very unlikely to have) known.

No, they have heard of it, and they agree with it. Here's a fatwa from some Saudi Arabian scholars on the matter:

https://islamqa.info/en/145636

If it makes you feel better, many consider it to have already been fulfilled, but others still think the hadith in question refers to a conquest of Hindustan that will occur near the end of days.

 

[Hamza913]

The fact is Muslim invaders also carried out mass rape, regardless of what Mehmed wanted. Also none of the soldiers were punished because a huge number of soldiers participated in the crimes. Such incidents were pretty common across the world regardless of religion. Changing religion and race doesn't change human nature

As I said before, there's no evidence that it was a frequent occurrence, I don't dispute that it may have sometimes happened, but most of the time it did not.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I am not supporting the Islamophobes in the thread but saying that Islamic invaders never committed mass rape is BS. Muslim invaders had no issue mass raping the girls and women that took refuge in Hagia Sophia and killing and enslaving everyone else. Tens of thousands were raped and enslaved during the looting of the city
I don't give a sh*t about what happened centuries ago but you need to re-check your facts

Not true. Your sources are propaganda pieces.

When did three days became one month? Do you even know what happened inside when the Ottomans stormed Hagia Sophia? They didn't wait an entire month in the church, Mehmed only gave three days to loot the city and all the raping ,pillaging and looting happened during that period. Even Mehmed accepted that the Ottoman soldiers went way past the red line after seeing the state of the city on the third day. You know about this right?
The pillaging and raping carried out during the siege of Constantinople is part of world history. Pretty much everyone who studied it knows the atrocities Ottomans carried out during the three days.

The most famous eye witness accounts of the siege state
The enraged Turkish soldiers . . . gave no quarter. When they had massacred and there was no longer any resistance, they were intent on pillage and roamed through the town stealing, disrobing, pillaging, killing, raping, taking captive men, women, children, old men, young men, monks, priests, people of all sorts and conditions . . . There were virgins who awoke from troubled sleep to find those brigands standing over them with bloody hands and faces full of abject fury. This medley of all nations, these frantic brutes stormed into their houses, dragged them, tore them, forced them, dishonored them, raped them at the cross-roads and made them submit to the most terrible outrages. It is even said that at the mere sight of them many girls were so stupefied that they almost gave up the ghost


Mehmed actually cried after seeing what happened and its all in history.

Your accounts are based on what sources?

You have to understand that in relation to Turkey, Western propaganda has always attempted to paint a negative picture of them.

We can discuss every thief, criminal, etc. who happened to be Muslim, Christian, Jew, but we are getting away from the topic of this thread.

It is unfair to blame the sources of Islam for the actions of Islam’s worst practitioners. Judge Islam by the normative practices of Muslims worldwide.

 

[LASER1]

No, I wasn't (although that's part of it). I was going to bring up stuff like this:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him) as saying: The Last Hour will not come before wealth becomes abundant and overflowing, so much so that a man takes Zakat out of his property and cannot find anyone to accept it from him and till the land of Arabia becomes meadows and rivers. [Muslim Book 005, Number 2208]

https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/saudi-green.html

http://islamiat101.blogspot.com/2014/01/signs-of-last-hour-arabia-will-become.html

Sahih Bukhari Volume 009, Book 088, Hadith Number 232.
Narrated By Abu Huraira : Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established till the buttocks of the women of the tribe of Daus move while going round Dhi-al-Khalasa." Dhi-al-Khalasa was the idol of the Daus tribe which they used to worship in the Pre Islamic Period of ignorance.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yWzcsddrx_wC&pg=PA146&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

“Among my ummah there will certainly be people who permit zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments…” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari ta’leeqan, no. 5590; narrated as mawsool by al-Tabaraani and al-Bayhaqi. See al-Silsilah al-Saheehah by al-Albaani, 91).

I can provide more hadees that have successfully predicted things to come if you wish, including the ones that mention scientific knowledge that Rasulullah (Peace Be Upon Him) couldn't have (or was at the least very unlikely to have) known.

No, they have heard of it, and they agree with it. Here's a fatwa from some Saudi Arabian scholars on the matter:

https://islamqa.info/en/145636

If it makes you feel better, many consider it to have already been fulfilled, but others still think the hadith in question refers to a conquest of Hindustan that will occur near the end of days.

That's for Muslims. It's rather strange eastern regions are mostly excluded by the 'all knowing guy', given they were more developed than most of the regions around the world.
These lines you make are done by twisting words and interpreting. Is there any prophecy about the discovery of crude oil? Or say, electricity, space travel, Engines?

This sounds more like, some Hindus who make connections to science through Pushpak viman (which can carry hundreds of people and fly) to aircraft. Or 'Brahmastra' (An arrow capable of killing millions of people) to the Nuclear Weapon. And they find verses like "The rains will be gone for years, the sky will pour out poison, babies will be stillborn, nothing will grow there for twelve years". Should I say this book, which talks about "Brahmastra" actually is a prophecy of Nuclear weapons? If you agree with this, then damn this was written some hundreds of years Before Christ. So, our sky man is better than yours.

This kind of prophecies, making connections to modern scientific inventions to religion is rather wasteful. Only some gullible bunch would believe India can be conquered because there's a prophecy. Please understand, we are evolving, not devolving. Based on any prophecy, can you predict any future events that's scientifically relevant? Or is it just Conquest and conversion?

 

[Hamza913]

That's for Muslims. It's rather strange eastern regions are mostly excluded by the 'all knowing guy', given they were more developed than most of the regions around the world.
These lines you make are done by twisting words and interpreting. Is there any prophecy about the discovery of crude oil? Or say, electricity, space travel, Engines?

This sounds more like, some Hindus who make connections to science through Pushpak viman (which can carry hundreds of people and fly) to aircraft. Or 'Brahmastra' (An arrow capable of killing millions of people) to the Nuclear Weapon. And they find verses like "The rains will be gone for years, the sky will pour out poison, babies will be stillborn, nothing will grow there for twelve years". Should I say this book, which talks about "Brahmastra" actually is a prophecy of Nuclear weapons? If you agree with this, then damn this was written some hundreds of years Before Christ. So, our sky man is better than yours.

This kind of prophecies, making connections to modern scientific inventions to religion is rather wasteful. Only some gullible bunch would believe India can be conquered because there's a prophecy. Please understand, we are evolving, not devolving. Based on any prophecy, can you predict any future events that's scientifically relevant? Or is it just Conquest and conversion?

No they aren't, again, there's the hadith about Ghazwa-e-Hind, which may have already been fulfilled or is yet to occur (depending on your interpretation).

They are not made by "twisting words", I know a few which people do twist the words for in order to fit their narrative, but I have not done such a thing. I have only cited clear hadees, and I can cite many more.

No, because those so called predictions are far more vague.

Numerous hadees/quranic verses have spoken about scientific knowledge, as you've already accepted.

Anyway, the point of these hadees is to make us aware of signs that show the end is near, they are not meant to give us knowledge. The hadees fulfil their purpose perfectly.

 

[Godman]

Not true. Your sources are propaganda pieces.

Yeah the all the sh*t that happened in Hagia Sophia and Constantinople didn't happen
I am not sure what Islamic countries teach for history but historical revisionism is a disturbing thing. If Muslims keep saying every single religion except them selves have done all kinds of sh*t it isn't going to end islamophobia. The Ottoman Empire doesn't have a great reputation in the western world not because of "propaganda" but because of their actions which make such propaganda possible. It goes all the way from Constantinople to the April Uprising etc.
The issue I have is how Muslims are ready to attack Hindus but when Muslims have done similar things it suddenly turns into "propaganda pieces" which kind of answers why anti-Islamic sentiments are on the rise is around the world.
Instead of accepting history and moving on continuously denying what happened is going to p*ss off non-Muslims

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Yeah the all the sh*t that happened in Hagia Sophia and Constantinople didn't happen
I am not sure what Islamic countries teach for history but historical revisionism is a disturbing thing. If Muslims keep saying every single religion except them selves have done all kinds of sh*t it isn't going to end islamophobia. The Ottoman Empire doesn't have a great reputation in the western world not because of "propaganda" but because of their actions which make such propaganda possible. It goes all the way from Constantinople to the April Uprising etc.
The issue I have is how Muslims are ready to attack Hindus but when Muslims have done similar things it suddenly turns into "propaganda pieces" which kind of answers why anti-Islamic sentiments are on the rise is around the world.
Instead of accepting history and moving on continuously denying what happened is going to p*ss off non-Muslims

No one asked your opinion. For your information, I am Western educated.

We don’t fit into your caricatures of Muslims.

Muslims left Hagia Sophia intact and even left the Orthodox Church and its clergy unharmed. Orthodox Christianitiy’s holiest sites are still in Istanbul today, and they are practicing their religion without any restrictions.

Seems that you have a bone to pick with Muslims, but your opinions don’t count as fact.

 

[Godman]

No one asked your opinion. For your information, I am Western educated.

We don’t fit into your caricatures of Muslims.

Muslims left Hagia Sophia intact and even left the Orthodox Church and its clergy unharmed. Orthodox Christianitiy’s holiest sites are still in Istanbul today, and they are practicing their religion without any restrictions.

Seems that you have a bone to pick with Muslims, but your opinions don’t count as fact.

So now you are accusing me of hating Muslims out of the blue and ranting some nonsense about me having problems with Muslims and calling the Massacre and Mass Rape at Hagia Sophia as my "opinion".
What ever helps you sleep at night my friend

I have no issue with your religion or race and I have never judged a person by his race or religion alone but actions speak. A Christian that denies the forced conversions by colonial powers is no different than a Muslim that denies what Islamic invaders did or what ever sh*t Hindu/Buddhists/Jews do/did. Bringing "he is an Islamophobe" card is too overused

 

[takeiteasy]

In the 5th and 6th century (The golden age of subcontinent), our ancestors started solving complex mathematical equations, astronomical data, did surgery on humans (such as cataract) and animals, invented medicines even for trees.

You really believe in all this? What India with your present day relatives looks like is that of Naga, Aghori naked sages and cow urine drinking RSS/BJP people. I doubt, if they can invent even a toilet in north India. Chest thumping on imaginary history? Real history is the history of cow lynch mobs and Hindu Rashtra craving maggots. This is the present history.