India copying Pakistani/Western Culture

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

and is for us being the same people yes we are!! and as for the thread topic we are not copying Pakistani culture since before 1900's there was nothing known as Pakistani culture and it was all regional culture..

Thats a contradiction is it not - that we are the "same people" but yet it was all "regional culture" with regional variances in beliefs and physical characteristics. That would imply that there is no such thing as "Indian culture" or "South Asian culture" - but its more like "South Asian Cultures".

In Pakistan, the culture has remained "homogeneous" historically through the IVC (with slight regional variations ofcourse) and then later on with "Islam" serving as the binding cord for the various "regional cultural differences" (all of which do have common threads running through them).

So yes, there has been "Pakistani Culture", its just that the name used to refer to it has changed, as of 1947.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

and then when someone fights it out to gang up on him or being a cry baby is also wrong..

You are raising issues people feel strongly about - are you suggesting that Pakistanis not speak their mind? As long as the exchange remains civil, there shouldn't be a problem.

And who is being a "cry baby"?

PS: I don't think you understand the implications of a country/its citizens that we "separated from", and some of whose citizens and politicians still make claims about "reuniting India", talking about Pakistanis and Indians being the "same people".

We should simply talk about the commonality of humanity in general. We are all "humans".

 

[aryan2007]

You are raising issues people feel strongly about - are you suggesting that Pakistanis not speak their mind? As long as the exchange remains civil, there shouldn't be a problem.

And who is being a "cry baby"?

people who tinker with rep panels and complain to the mods when they feel slighted..

PS: I don't think you understand the implications of a country/its citizens that we "separated from", and some of whose citizens and politicians still make claims about "reuniting India", talking about Pakistanis and Indians being the "same people".
We should simply talk about the commonality of humanity in general. We are all "humans".

please refer below..

 

[aryan2007]

Thats a contradiction is it not - that we are the "same people" but yet it was all "regional culture" with regional variances in beliefs and physical characteristics. That would imply that there is no such thing as "Indian culture" or "South Asian culture" - but its more like "South Asian Cultures".

By same people I am not saying a Sindhi is same as a Punjabi or a Rajput is same as say a Choora..
but the Rajputs are same ... and spread all over etc..
There are actually very few people in Pakistan who did not have a non Muslim caste/tribe/ethnic counterpart in India.. except for baloch and Pashtuns..

In Pakistan, the culture has remained "homogeneous" historically through the IVC (with slight regional variations ofcourse)

I believe IVC like culture was also found in UP..
Taxila was also a centre of learning like Nalanda..
therefore to call IVC Pakistani is wrong it was the culture of Northern Sub-continent..

and then later on with "Islam" serving as the binding cord for the various "regional cultural differences" (all of which do have common threads running through them).

See .. the language spoken in Pakistan is same/similar to languages spoken in India..
the traditions and customs followed are also same/similar..
the kind of Islam practised is also same/similar..

What I am saying there has not been a significant level of isolation that we become different..

So yes, there has been "Pakistani Culture", its just that the name used to refer to it has changed, as of 1947.

Culture As such, it includes codes of manners, dress, language, religion, rituals, norms of behavior such as law and morality, and systems of belief as well as the arts and gastronomy....
no matter what you say what ever Culture of Pakistan something similar is being followed in India.. though mostly in Northern Region and in disparate locations(for Urdu customs)..
As for the Pashtun and Baloch customs they are unique to Pakistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan and Iran..
rest are shared..

And for ethnicities almost all Pakistani subgroups have a Non Muslim Indian counterpart..

as I said after several more centuries of isolation and rise of nationalism etc.. etc.. our culture will become divergent till then "We are the same" .. Desi..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

By same people I am not saying a Sindhi is same as a Punjabi or a Rajput is same as say a Choora..
but the Rajputs are same ... and spread all over etc..
There are actually very few people in Pakistan who did not have a non Muslim caste/tribe/ethnic counterpart in India.. except for baloch and Pashtuns..

Even so the whole argument of "we are the same" is irrelevant and incorrect, because (assuming your assertion is true for the moment), you are comparing some groups of people in Pakistan, with some groups of people in India (that are a small minority of the total Indian population) - that does not make all Indians and Pakistanis "the same people".
You could take the small number of Jews in India then and claim that the "Israelis and Indians are the same people" since there are some similarities there - its still incorrect.

What would be appropriate is if you started a thread on "Rajputs in South Asia" or something like that and discussed those "clan" similarities.

I believe IVC like culture was also found in UP..
Taxila was also a centre of learning like Nalanda..
therefore to call IVC Pakistani is wrong it was the culture of Northern Sub-continent..

There is an entire thread on that very issue, you could go through it and answer the issues raised. But the salient points are that the majority of the "neutrally verified IVC" lies in present day Pakistan, as do the "neutrally verified centers of the IVC". We are not suggesting that there were "no great civilizations in India", just that there remains little neutrally verified evidence that the sites in India were part of the IVC. I'll leave it at that, and you can pick it up in the relevant thread.

See .. the language spoken in Pakistan is same/similar to languages spoken in India..
the traditions and customs followed are also same/similar..
the kind of Islam practised is also same/similar..

Actually, RR would take issue with the "same Islam" aspect, since I believe that he has mentioned that the "Indian Deobandi School of thought" was developed in current day India, and is not native to Pakistan. But I am not as well versed about that subject so I'll leave it to him to clarify.

With respect to the "traditions and customs" - you have already stated that within India those vary quite a bit, as do languages and features, so the comparison between similarities of a minority of cultures in India with some groups in Pakistan does not validate the claim that "we are the same people". It is still a handpicked comparison of specific groups of people, who happen to be in the minority on one country.

Again, why not simply talk about Rajput's then?

What I am saying there has not been a significant level of isolation that we become different..

Culture As such, it includes codes of manners, dress, language, religion, rituals, norms of behavior such as law and morality, and systems of belief as well as the arts and gastronomy....
no matter what you say what ever Culture of Pakistan something similar is being followed in India.. though mostly in Northern Region and in disparate locations(for Urdu customs)..
As for the Pashtun and Baloch customs they are unique to Pakistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan and Iran..
rest are shared..

And for ethnicities almost all Pakistani subgroups have a Non Muslim Indian counterpart..

as I said after several more centuries of isolation and rise of nationalism etc.. etc.. our culture will become divergent till then "We are the same" .. Desi..

The culture is already divergent within India, you have claimed that yourself - now how can you then claim that Pakistani and Indian culture is the same, when you admitted that there is no thing as a "Homogeneous Indian culture"?

You are once again making comparisons between handpicked sections of people to illustrate that there are similarities.

Cultures evolve and change from interactions between other cultures - India has two very large "cultural groups" (that I can think of right now) that would affect it differently, and allow it to evolve (has evolved) in a different direction from that of Pakistan. Indian has Bengali culture etc. in the East, and it has South Indian culture, along with your North Indian Culture.

Pakistan on the other hand has no influences or interactions (generally speaking) from anything close to either of those two (Bengali, South Indian cultures). Our interactions have historically been with Persia, Central Asia, North India etc. So it stands to reason that as cultures evolve over time due to interactions with other cultures surrounding them, Pakistani culture would evolve differently from Indian culture due to the different influences on them.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

There is nothing called an "average" Indian.

The Indian population is made up of varied ethnic groups.

 

[roadrunner]

There is nothing called an "average" Indian.

The Indian population is made up of varied ethnic groups.

Every country has an "average population..the "set look". For example, Germany has a set look, but there are many different varied ethnic groups. For the most part, Germany is a Germanic country, just as India is a Dravidian country. This does not mean that you won't find Africans in Germany, or Pakistani looking people in India..they are a minority

 

[roadrunner]

Actually, RR would take issue with the "same Islam" aspect, since I believe that he has mentioned that the "Indian Deobandi School of thought" was developed in current day India, and is not native to Pakistan. But I am not as well versed about that subject so I'll leave it to him to clarify.

Deobandism did arise in India. It has been introduced into Pakistan recently. Soon it'll be thrown back into India hopefully. Pakistan traditionally followed a very liberal interpretation of Islam brought by the Turks.

On the subject you were replying to though (and I'e given up on feeding the troll)..Pakistan has some shared culture with India. However, this is as a result of the recent partition. Just as in 800 BC ir whenever Pakistan was liberated from the Persian Empire, Pakistan had some shared culture with the Persians. In another 2000 years, any remainder of Indian culture (however you want to define it..Urdu speaking perhaps), will remain confined to a small North-Easternly part of Punjab, just as some Persian culture is confined to a couple of North-Western parts of Pakistan.

 

[Scorpius]

Aryan how do you work out that an average north indian is lighter and better built then an average punjabi ****?

Dont make sense to me especially as many Indians I know eat alot of vegeterian food, where as us pakis eat alot more meat. Then there's the extra heat in India and the other ethnicities that get mixed in.

I think you said that on purpose to wind up RR...

And no we are not the same, we are similar yes but still different. Goto a Sikh punjabi house or a muslim punjabi house you will notice many differences. Sure there will be more similarities between the two groups then many other groups but there are distinct differences.

So your "we are the same" line doesn't add up and is not enough for India to claim Pakistan as theres. Understand we are muslim and this significantly shapes pakistani society and makes it very different to Indian punjabi society.

And I totally disagree with your rajput are all the same claim! lol, very few indian rajputs look like pakistani rajputs. The only ones who have similarity are sikhs.

 

[sajan]

The Mughal's ruled the present India and Pakistan for nearly 600-700 years, and their capital was Delhi. So naturally Delhi should be a part of Pakistan right?(correct me if im wrong)

 

[UnitedPak]

The Mughal's ruled the present India and Pakistan for nearly 600-700 years, and their capital was Delhi. So naturally Delhi should be a part of Pakistan right?(correct me if im wrong)

Kabul and Lahore were also the capitals at some point.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The Mughal's ruled the present India and Pakistan for nearly 600-700 years, and their capital was Delhi. So naturally Delhi should be a part of Pakistan right?(correct me if im wrong)

I don't see how being part of an old autocratic empire justifies the inclusion of Delhi in Pakistan.

 

[solid snake]

Uhh yeah genius, the map refers to the native populations, as United Pak has pointed out.

Whites are "native" to Australia. I think several hundered years is enough time for a people living in an area to call themselves natives. Even if it is referring to aboriginies as natives and not whites, the US should be the same. But there you can see they took white people into account. That map fails.

 

[roadrunner]

Whites are "native" to Australia. I think several hundered years is enough time for a people living in an area to call themselves natives. Even if it is referring to aboriginies as natives and not whites, the US should be the same. But there you can see they took white people into account. That map fails.

Good grief. Learn some history please. Whites are NOT native to Australia or tot he US. The American Indians are the natives of the US, and the Australian Aborigines are the natives to Australia! Regardless, that map does NOT show the whites as being part of the US, or as part of Australia because it demonstrates the skin color distribution of the old world..i.e.the NATIVES.

Why should Australia be the same as the US? The American Indians are generally lighter than Australian Aborigines (they are a different race). Let's try and not make ignorant statements.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Whites are "native" to Australia. I think several hundered years is enough time for a people living in an area to call themselves natives. Even if it is referring to aboriginies as natives and not whites, the US should be the same. But there you can see they took white people into account. That map fails.

Well said.