India copying Pakistani/Western Culture

[Flintlock]

well Pakistanis think of Muslims as a race mostly and I have not met one Pakistani who is proud or aware of achievements of ancient India... you guys have threads for Muslim scholars, warriors etc.. your govt fer chrisake glorifies Ghazi , ghauri etc. etc. .. Many claim to have at times false arab persian ancestry.. look at arian, awan etc.. be proud of your ancestors even though they weren't muslims.. and respect their memories and be proud of ur rich unique and original heritage.. Pakistanis ought to cherish it, nurture it and be proud of it.. Even the persians celebrate their pre-Islamic festivals...
This is ur heritage.. claim it...

Ah well...Roadrunner here is doing just that...don't you worry....

Actually Pakistanis I've chatted with are of 2 types: The first type completely ignores pre-islamic invasion history. The second type considers all Ancient Indian history to be originating from Pakistan.

I have not seen anyone having threads for ancient Indian warriors.. I mean one of the sr. members here is undecided if whether Bhagat Singh was a terrorist or a freedom fighter...

Kinda true actually...there aren't any threads for Prithviraj Chauhan or Shivaji....

so for all practical purposes ancient India means present India... this could be a conscience decision or propaganda but an avg Pakistani is as detached from his heritage as an avg AMerican from reality..

Ah...all thats fine..but don't send the Mahabharat to Pakistan....Hastinapur is in UP and Kurukshetra is in Haryana!!

PS: I am a Sikh I am all for achievements of Indians whether they belong to pre-Pakistan Pakistani lands or India irresp of religion... this makes me whom I am and I am damn proud of it..

Wonderful!!

Sadly, not many people consider our culture to be a shared one. Its either Indian or Pakistani....
I've been arguing on this forum that India and Pakistan have a common heritage, but noone seems to buy that argument.

 

[aryan2007]

Actually Pakistanis I've chatted with are of 2 types: The first type completely ignores pre-islamic invasion history. The second type considers all Ancient Indian history to be originating from Pakistan.

well I have not met, seen or interacted with the second time...

Kinda true actually...there aren't any threads for Prithviraj Chauhan or Shivaji....

Or for that matter.. Punjabi heroes? Like Porus from Jhelum... or the Rajputs or Jatt Heroes like Ranjit Singh, Maharana Pratap the 2 most dominant ethnic groups in Pakistan...

Ah...all thats fine..but don't send the Mahabharat to Pakistan....Hastinapur is in UP and Kurukshetra is in Haryana!!

Gandhara the region that is spoken of is in Kandhar Afghanista, Madra Desh is central Punjab, Bahlika is NWFP I think, Kamboj is in Afghanistan..
Shlya the Maternal Uncle of Pandavas was from Madra Desh...
(Mahabharata)

Lahore is name after Luv,son of Rama
Kasur is named after Kush, the second son of Rama..
(as mentioned in Dasam Granth a Sikh Scripture)

there is a map of Mahabharata's main dynasties and their origin.. though some I feel are a bit off..

I don't think anyone in India is very fanatical or religious many are what they call themselves spiritual, secularists or humanists though most of the youngsters call themselves atheists...

I see more Hindus than Sikhs in Gurudwaras at times, more Hindus in Ajmer Dargah usually.. quite a few Musims in Vaishno Devi(I am also trying to show that Sikhs visit this area too.. )

Sadly, not many people consider our culture to be a shared one. Its either Indian or Pakistani....

See this is to be expected.. else the 2 nation theory "as not" propounded by Jinnah would be proved false.. (not proved --> means clash of religion and civilisation which I have been arguing for a long time is wrong it is a clash of interests..)

I've been arguing on this forum that India and Pakistan have a common heritage, but noone seems to buy that argument.

None will.. though strangely I saw a video on youtube in which Imran Khan said that Indians are brown and on the TV they show fair people and in doing that they are trying to copy Maghrebi(Arabs(the Moroccan, Lebanese)) who are fair and liberal he further said value is for original.. at that time I just clasped my head and thought these guys buy into the muslim/arab/persian heritage while rejecting their true heritage and they preach to Indians about being original

 

[Flintlock]

Or for that matter.. Punjabi heroes? Like Porus from Jhelum... or the Rajputs or Jatt Heroes like Ranjit Singh, Maharana Pratap the 2 most dominant ethnic groups in Pakistan...

Maharana Pratap...didn't DD have a show about him?

Anyways, even if any of these guys did rule in Pakistan, its unlikely that Pakistani historians will consider praising a non-Muslim warrior or king...

Pakistani historians (forgive me if I"m wrong) consider the coming of Islam to be the greatest event in their history, and all history before pales in comparison. Its considered the Pakistanis "golden age" so to speak, when Islam ruled over all the lands....

Gandhara the region that is spoken of is in Kandhar Afghanista, Madra Desh is central Punjab, Bahlika is NWFP I think, Kamboj is in Afghanistan..
Shlya the Maternal Uncle of Pandavas was from Madra Desh...
(Mahabharata)

Lahore is name after Luv,son of Rama
Kasur is named after Kush, the second son of Rama..
(as mentioned in Dasam Granth a Sikh Scripture)

Yeah, Mahabharata does cover a huge area....but central region is definitely well within India i think....

I don't think anyone in India is very fanatical or religious many are what they call themselves spiritual, secularists or humanists though most of the youngsters call themselves atheists...

Include me in the list of atheists!!

Actually its great that so many Indians are become atheists. Also great that no one is lifting an eyebrow about it!

I see more Hindus than Sikhs in Gurudwaras at times, more Hindus in Ajmer Dargah usually.. quite a few Musims in Vaishno Devi(I am also trying to show that Sikhs visit this area too.. )

Yeah, Indian religions do overlap several times...one of my friends family believed that going to ajmer dargah would be beneficial....so......inspite of being hindus....they went all the way there....

Also, Hindus in Punjab might go to Gurudwaras to pay respects to the Sikh Gurus, who were well respected by all. Its actually a matter of family tradition.....perhaps the ancestors of these people were associated with the Sikh Gurus....

None will.. though strangely I saw a video on youtube in which Imran Khan said that Indians are brown and on the TV they show fair people and in doing that they are trying to copy Maghrebi(Arabs(the Moroccan, Lebanese)) who are fair and liberal he further said value is for original.. at that time I just clasped my head and thought these guys buy into the muslim/arab/persian heritage while rejecting their true heritage and they preach to Indians about being original

Really? can you dig up the link for me?

 

[aryan2007]

Maharana Pratap...didn't DD have a show about him?

Possible.. (Legendary Horse Chetak rings a bell?)
He was totally opposed to Akbar.. and appealed to the Rajputs to fight foreigners and many Muslim Rajputs sided with him fought against Akbar...
He is considered the personification of Rajput spirit and brotherhood...

Anyways, even if any of these guys did rule in Pakistan, its unlikely that Pakistani historians will consider praising a non-Muslim warrior or king...
Pakistani historians (forgive me if I"m wrong) consider the coming of Islam to be the greatest event in their history, and all history before pales in comparison. Its considered the Pakistanis "golden age" so to speak, when Islam ruled over all the lands....

I guess you are right..

Yeah, Mahabharata does cover a huge area....but central region is definitely well within India i think....

yeah the core is def. present India..

Include me in the list of atheists!!
Actually its great that so many Indians are become atheists. Also great that no one is lifting an eyebrow about it!

Well I prefer an atheist who does good than a fanatic who does wrong....

Yeah, Indian religions do overlap several times...one of my friends family believed that going to ajmer dargah would be beneficial....so......inspite of being hindus....they went all the way there....

I think this is called respect, belief and secularism.. I personally believe God cannot be contained in one religion..

Also, Hindus in Punjab might go to Gurudwaras to pay respects to the Sikh Gurus, who were well respected by all. Its actually a matter of family tradition.....perhaps the ancestors of these people were associated with the Sikh Gurus....

Not only in Punjab but all over the world though amongst Hindus mostly Punjabi and Sindhi Hindus(they follow Sikh rituals of marriage and funerals) regularly goto the Gurudwaras... though I have once met a few Pakistanis in Sis Ganj Gurudwara in Delhi.. and Farooq Abdullah(his d-in-law is a Sikh) makes regular pilgrimage to Golden Temple in Amritsar...

Really? can you dig up the link for me?

YouTube - Imran Khans on Indians and burger families of Pakistan

desi kutty vilayati cheekhain -->

 

[EagleEyes]

So India has copied the origin and history of Pakistan to theirs and making it so called Mahabharata history etc.. I think Imran Khans explains it well.

With the images like these... You see that Pakistani history started from the west and went to the east, and later Indians claimed the history and named it / tied it with their religion so it is easy and justified to claim.

Epic India

 

[Scorpius]

None will.. though strangely I saw a video on youtube in which Imran Khan said that Indians are brown and on the TV they show fair people and in doing that they are trying to copy Maghrebi(Arabs(the Moroccan, Lebanese)) who are fair and liberal he further said value is for original.. at that time I just clasped my head and thought these guys buy into the muslim/arab/persian heritage while rejecting their true heritage and they preach to Indians about being original

What's wrong with what Imran said? From what I could understand he's got it right about India, ie the desire to be western or whatever. One way this is manifested is as he said the actors on tv and the skin colour compared to the average Indian. Or the mannerisms and language they try to emulate.

True heritage?

Our true heritage is a Islamic heritage and the pre islamic heritage. We are not hindus or sikhs, we are muslims and as such that is a big part of our heritage.


Being a Rajput I am very proud of Rajput heroes such as Raja Porus or Chauhan.

However we do emphasise the Islamic aspect more as that is more recent and religion is considered more important then many other aspects.

This is a problem however as Pakistan progresses I believe it will discover itself, it already has a unique identity. Whatever ethnicity we are sindhi, balochi, punjabi, pathan we are all proud to call ourselves Pakistanis.

 

[Flintlock]

What's wrong with what Imran said? From what I could understand he's got it right about India, ie the desire to be western or whatever. One way this is manifested is as he said the actors on tv and the skin colour compared to the average Indian. Or the mannerisms and language they try to emulate.

Dude, its called the modern globalized culture. Why single out India? Look at Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Japan, Europe. They are all influenced by american culture. I don't understand why you guys consider it some sort of cheap thing to do.

As far as skin colour is concerned, you will have to look a little harder to notice that beautiful women are choosen for TV irrespective of skin colour. India's most popular actresses are Kajol, Bipasha Basu, Deepika Padukone, Shushmita Sen, all with dark skin.

 

[Flintlock]

So India has copied the origin and history of Pakistan to theirs and making it so called Mahabharata history etc.. I think Imran Khans explains it well.

Do you mind explaining how this great robbery of history took place?

With the images like these... You see that Pakistani history started from the west and went to the east, and later Indians claimed the history and named it / tied it with their religion so it is easy and justified to claim.

Oh please...don't be naive.

 

[Flintlock]

I think Imran Khan is one of those nostalgic oldies who want to return to the "golden age" so to speak...we have them in India also.


They don't realize that even their "pure" culture was influenced by so many different people and civilizations. Muslim culture in Pakistan was an amalgamation of Persian culture and Hindu culture, Persian architecture itself borrows heavily from the Romans and Romans borrow from the Greeks.....etc etc.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Ah well...Roadrunner here is doing just that...don't you worry....

Actually Pakistanis I've chatted with are of 2 types: The first type completely ignores pre-islamic invasion history. The second type considers all Ancient Indian history to be originating from Pakistan.

We don't claim any ancient Bharat history, infact its other way around. Can you dispute this fact that so called ancient Indian civilizations which u are so proud of like Indus vally originated in Pak?

So it will be better for u guys to stick with ancient Bharat history. Oh i forgot one thing since IVC is one of the greatest civilizations of the ancient world and no ancient Bharat civilization comes close to it, the reason hiduvatva claim IVC.

 

[roadrunner]

Dude, its called the modern globalized culture. Why single out India? Look at Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Japan, Europe. They are all influenced by american culture. I don't understand why you guys consider it some sort of cheap thing to do.

As far as skin colour is concerned, you will have to look a little harder to notice that beautiful women are choosen for TV irrespective of skin colour. India's most popular actresses are Kajol, Bipasha Basu, Deepika Padukone, Shushmita Sen, all with dark skin.

Globalization might be occurring. But generally most countries retain the character of their films. When I watch Singaporean TV, or Malay TV, the presenters, the actors, actresses, all look Singaporean or Malay. It's not like in India, where the actors and actresses look nothing like Indians. Generally, the more prominent non Dravidian features are favoured, and lighter skin is manipulated in movies on the whole. I don't see Japanese using caucasian actors. Generally, Japanese movies and presenters all look Japanese.I agree with Imran Khan.

 

[Flintlock]

Globalization might be occurring. But generally most countries retain the character of their films. When I watch Singaporean TV, or Malay TV, the presenters, the actors, actresses, all look Singaporean or Malay. It's not like in India, where the actors and actresses look nothing like Indians. Generally, the more prominent non Dravidian features are favoured, and lighter skin is manipulated in movies on the whole. I don't see Japanese using caucasian actors. Generally, Japanese movies and presenters all look Japanese.

OH wow!! So now good looking Indians don't look Indian at all? What is that supposed to mean?

Have you even watched Indian channels? Do you have any idea how many channels are there in India? Think around 500-600. Now most of these are regional channels, where the hosts look just like they ought to.

Standards of beauty are universal, they have nothing to do with Aryan features or any crap like that. Try looking at thousand year old statues from temples in South India.

Google Deepika Padukone...she's 100% dravidian. Now tell me that she doesn't look Indian...or Bipasha Basu and tell me she doesn't look bengali.
Then google Madhuri Dixit and Isha koppikar and tell me that they dont look Marathi.

 

[roadrunner]

OH wow!! So now good looking Indians don't look Indian at all? What is that supposed to mean?

Who mentioned anything about good-looking? All I said was that Indians on TV (specifically Bollywood), do not share the features of the Indian population at all. Where did I mention they were good looking or not?

Have you even watched Indian channels? Do you have any idea how many channels are there in India? Think around 500-600. Now most of these are regional channels, where the hosts look just like they ought to.

Standards of beauty are universal, they have nothing to do with Aryan features or any crap like that. Try looking at thousand year old statues from temples in South India.

Google Deepika Padukone...she's 100% dravidian. Now tell me that she doesn't look Indian...or Bipasha Basu and tell me she doesn't look bengali.
Then google Madhuri Dixit and Isha koppikar and tell me that they dont look Marathi.

Once again, where did I mention about whether real (aka not Bollywood) Indians are good looking or not?

 

[Flintlock]

There is no one way to look "Indian". With the number of different races and subraces India has got, you really can't pick one type of features for India.

Try looking at pictures of tribals from Chhattisgarh and tell me if they look anything like the rest of the Indians.
They go look at pictures of models from Meghalaya and Manipur.

 

[Flintlock]

Who mentioned anything about good-looking? All I said was that Indians on TV (specifically Bollywood), do not share the features of the Indian population at all. Where did I mention they were good looking or not?

Er..its kinda understood that good looking people are chosen for TV and movies?