Moscow raises price of defence deals with India

[aryan2007]

Of course we mean "ancient India" by that - the people could have been either today's Pakistanis or today's Indians.

Well India or Pakistani I don't know but most the Mahabharata(the book where Chess is first mentioned) took place in Punjab...and was possibly invented in Punjab during those times
Since many Punjabi's trace ther lineage to the dynasties of Mahabharata.. and since most Punjabis today are Pakistanis.. so some Pakistani's ancestor could be the creator of Chess..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ah...now comes the time when we start arguing where each ancient scientist was born, whether east of the border or west of it.

Oh not at all... just pointing out that "India" refers to "ancient India", the region - people inevitably confuse the usage with today's India.

Going off topic - So I'm done here. maybe we can start a "who invented what" thread in some other forum.

 

[Flintlock]

Well India or Pakistani I don't know but most the Mahabharata(the book where Chess is first mentioned) took place in Punjab...and was possibly invented in Punjab during those times
Since many Punjabi's trace ther lineage to the dynasties of Mahabharata.. and since most Punjabis today are Pakistanis.. so some Pakistani's ancestor could be the creator of Chess..

Hey, get the Mahabharat away from that Pakistani border!! Most of it happens well in the Gangetic plains!

 

[aryan2007]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH is all i gota say its like giveing a DOG a bone first Russia now the US

are you suggesting that Indians are offering bones/orders to the dogs aka US/RUssia??

i guess where ever ones back is facing Our indian friends are ready to kiss

I will kiss derriers but only if they belong to Pamela David or Giselle Bundchen or Heidi Klum or Mylena Trump

haha no offence and plz watch wat u say on here its nota indian site

I think .pk gave it away..

show some respect i have been watching the stupid comments our indian brothers put anyhow cheers !!!! Regards,

Like what peshawari said his manners have gone down, I guess he is interacting with Indians

Always the TOPGUN [/QUOTE]

Why are you angry???\

 

[aryan2007]

Oh not at all... just pointing out that "India" refers to "ancient India", the region - people inevitably confuse the usage with today's India.

Going off topic - So I'm done here. maybe we can start a "who invented what" thread in some other forum.

Hey, get the Mahabharat away from that Pakistani border!!

well Pakistanis think of Muslims as a race mostly and I have not met one Pakistani who is proud or aware of achievements of ancient India... you guys have threads for Muslim scholars, warriors etc.. your govt fer chrisake glorifies Ghazi , ghauri etc. etc. .. Many claim to have at times false arab persian ancestry.. look at arian, awan etc.. be proud of your ancestors even though they weren't muslims.. and respect their memories and be proud of ur rich unique and original heritage.. Pakistanis ought to cherish it, nurture it and be proud of it.. Even the persians celebrate their pre-Islamic festivals...
This is ur heritage.. claim it...

I have not seen anyone having threads for ancient Indian warriors.. I mean one of the sr. members here is undecided if whether Bhagat Singh was a terrorist or a freedom fighter...

so for all practical purposes ancient India means present India... this could be a conscience decision or propaganda but an avg Pakistani is as detached from his heritage as an avg AMerican from reality..

PS: I am a Sikh I am all for achievements of Indians whether they belong to pre-Pakistan Pakistani lands or India irresp of religion... this makes me whom I am and I am damn proud of it..

 

[Cheetah786]

India will rely on Russia for the bulk of foreign purchases... prefabricated products to save on time, cost etc..

INcreasingly adopt the Joint production route with Russia and possibly Israel.. and or go for domestic indigenous production.for most mainstream products

I just Have 1 question for aryan could you please tell me whats in it for The americans.
Why should the americans help the indians in every field if uncle putin gets the fruit.As a business man if i dont get any thing out of a idea or investment why should i Invest in it.

 

[Cheetah786]

=aryan2007;117066]PS the current Chess champion is an Indian, Chess was invented in India and some of the top mathematicians have been Indians + Indians are some of the finest doctors and engineers you will see them finding a way out, by your logic then...

Most scholars agree that chess originated in India in the sixth century as chaturanga, a military-style strategy game. Web chess historians refer to the authoritative, out-of-print A History of Chess, written by noted board-game expert H.J.R. Murray in 1913. Murray credits India with giving birth to the game, citing etymology and folklore.

However, an alternate theory claims that China is the true birthplace of chess. A widely circulated essay by Sam Sloan makes compelling historical, archaeological, and linguistic arguments for this viewpoint.

Sloan questions Murray's sources and states:

...we can reasonably conclude that chess appeared in India no earlier than the sixth century A.D., and perhaps considerably later. However, we also know that Chinese chess was written about at a much earlier date.
The essay argues that, contrary to the belief of many chess historians, xiangqi, or Chinese chess, is related to western chess, and its rules, board configuration, piece movements, and strategies prove that it is the logical precursor to the modern game.
Despite its obscure origins, we do know that the game of chess thrived in Asia for centuries and has spread in popularity throughout the world. And if you are still mystified by this puzzle, you may want to consult Christianity's patron saint of chess, St. Teresa of Avila.

==========================================================

 

[aryan2007]

I just Have 1 question for aryan could you please tell me whats in it for The americans.

One of the biggest pro-American country which can counter China and "rogue states" like Pakistan etc..

Do you seriously after what America did in 1948 with both India and Pakistan, in 71 against India and after Nuke tests with India and Pakistan that they seriously think that Indians are that obtuse that they will stab Russians in the back so that they can buy equivalent more expensive US products which US can render useless by imposing sanctions/blockades????

US offered not only India Nuclear pacts but it has offered this pact to several other countries(~25 acc. to wiki)

Why should the americans help the indians in every field if uncle putin gets the fruit.

I think India spends around 5-10bn$ a year in defence purchases max.. and India wants to become indigenous completely in the future.. this is pittance for America but vital for Russian companies...

US defence budget is 20 times ours and companies make more money from domestic purchases then from a 10bn$ purchase from India which will eventually drop...

US wants to control India which is not going to be impossible.. our govt & people are deeply suspicious of US govt motives yet we are there biggest Ally's..

We are already buying US products like Boeing jets, companies etc. worth several billion $ every year Further US is our biggest trading partner and one of the largest investor in India.. Indians have a lot of power and influence in US political circles..

every field???
I think
US is opposed to India having a permanent seat at Secy council
US wants India to fully embrace agro conditions of WTO and ruin our domestic agricultural sector..
US wants India to Sever relations with Iran
US regularly imposes anti dumping laws against Indian products etc..
US wants India to butt in Burma

As a business man if i dont get any thing out of a idea or investment why should i Invest in it.

Au contraire.. US govt is not capitalist its companies are... US govt is the biggest drain on America IMO with its aid and mindless wars... US govt wants to keep its new found ally happy and under leash.. which is easy with insecure countries but not India...

US companies are investing heavily in India... and Indian companies are also investing in US to some extent.. we are responsible have an independent judiciary.. are pro US.. secular .. transparent.. democractic.. stable..with an open free market economy etc..

US wants to stop the monopoly of China and in that it wants to help its free market democratic ally India...

China is the rising superpower and hostile to US...
India is a rising superpower and pro-US...

and we are there to counter the Chinoise... with US help ...

 

[Cheetah786]

One of the biggest pro-American country which can counter China and "rogue states" like Pakistan etc..

Do you seriously after what America did in 1948 with both India and Pakistan, in 71 against India and after Nuke tests with India and Pakistan that they seriously think that Indians are that obtuse that they will stab Russians in the back so that they can buy equivalent more expensive US products which US can render useless by imposing sanctions/blockades????

US offered not only India Nuclear pacts but it has offered this pact to several other countries(~25 acc. to wiki)



I think India spends around 5-10bn$ a year in defence purchases max.. and India wants to become indigenous completely in the future.. this is pittance for America but vital for Russian companies...

US defence budget is 20 times ours and companies make more money from domestic purchases then from a 10bn$ purchase from India which will eventually drop...

US wants to control India which is not going to be impossible.. our govt & people are deeply suspicious of US govt motives yet we are there biggest Ally's..

We are already buying US products like Boeing jets, companies etc. worth several billion $ every year Further US is our biggest trading partner and one of the largest investor in India.. Indians have a lot of power and influence in US political circles..

every field???
I think
US is opposed to India having a permanent seat at Secy council
US wants India to fully embrace agro conditions of WTO and ruin our domestic agricultural sector..
US wants India to Sever relations with Iran
US regularly imposes anti dumping laws against Indian products etc..
US wants India to butt in Burma





Au contraire.. US govt is not capitalist its companies are... US govt is the biggest drain on America IMO with its aid and mindless wars... US govt wants to keep its new found ally happy and under leash.. which is easy with insecure countries but not India...

US companies are investing heavily in India... and Indian companies are also investing in US to some extent.. we are responsible have an independent judiciary.. are pro US.. secular .. transparent.. democractic.. stable..with an open free market economy etc..

US wants to stop the monopoly of China and in that it wants to help its free market democratic ally India...

China is the rising superpower and hostile to US...
India is a rising superpower and pro-US...

and we are there to counter the Chinoise... with US help ...

Why from your answer it FEELS like iam talking to a 1o years old.

I dont no who you are listening to and kissing your self in the mirror but get your head out of sand and realize AMericans have never ever in the history done any thing for any body including westren states if there isnt any thing in it for them.

ITS CALLED YOU SCRATCH MY BACK I WILL SCRATCH YOURS.WHATS THAT THING CALLED OH YEAH CAPITALISM.IAM SURE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT CONCEPT.BUT I HAVE NO INTREST IN YOUR ANSWER AS I NO I NO AMERICA NEEDS INDIA TO COUNTER CHINA.

OH I JUST REMMEBER WHAT HAPPEND TO THAT 126 FIGHTER JETS TENDER WHY HAS THAT NOT BEEN AWARDED TO RUSSIANS ALREADY.


EVEN THE GUYS THAT MAKE GUNS THAT KILL 1000S OF AMERICANS EVERY YEAR HAVE LOT OF POLITICAL CLOUT IN USA.ITS CALLED LOBBIYEST STOP PAYING THEM AND WATCH THE INFLUENCE DISAPEAR.see what iam getting at if the lobbiyst dont get some thing in return for there work or they walk.

every field???
I think
US is opposed to India having a permanent seat at Secy council

wait a minute i thought you said they want you to be countering china.yet at the same time they want you not get a permanent seat iam so confused.

US wants India to fully embrace agro conditions of WTO and ruin our domestic agricultural sector

..
i dont no how to tell ya mate but if u pay attention lots of farmers in india killing them self

US wants India to Sever relations with Iran

indians openely ask to destroy irans nuclear instalations on most military forums.indians been playing around with pipeline since americans influenced.india voted against iran should i go on to say guess what you are doing exactly what they want.

US regularly imposes anti dumping laws against Indian products etc..

wait what happend to that previous statement they wants to bring india against china

US wants India to butt in Burma

well well well thats called do it or lose it

Lahore is name after Luv,son of Rama

funny when they wanted to name a street in MARKHAM ontario canada after lahore indians in the area was the ones making the most noise against it.
i dont get it

 

[ejaz007]

I know this is off topic but just to add another trophy to Indian defense procurement delay list. Have a look. Dam they are good at delaying every thing.

Indian Infantry Upgrade Program Delayed
By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI, NEW DELHI
India’s ambitious program to equip soldiers with modern technology will not meet the anticipated delivery schedule.
Indian Defence Minister A.K. Antony told the Indian Parliament on Nov. 28 that the program “may take about four years’ time after the project is sanctioned,” said the official release of the Indian Defence Ministry.
“The Defence Research & Development Organisation [DRDO] has evolved the preliminary report on ‘soldier as a system,’ which would equip soldiers with high-tech gadgets and weapons. DRDO is in the process of discussion with the Army, as a collaborative program,” Antony said.
Last year, the Indian army formulated a multimillion-dollar plan, called F-INSAS, to provide high-tech gear for Indian infantry troops.
The army had expected to begin trials of the F-INSAS prototype in 2011, and aimed to equip its entire infantry, comprising 500,000 troops, by 2020. Indian army sources said DRDO’s presence in the ambitious project could add another 10 years to its initial commencement.
The plan intends to improve the soldiers’ lethality, mobility, survivability, sustainability, situational awareness, and battle command and control.
DefenseNews.com - Indian Infantry Upgrade Program Delayed - 11/28/07 10:30

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The more Russia starts getting pricey, the more India gets pushed into the western orbit!

 

[fatman17]

The more Russia starts getting pricey, the more India gets pushed into the western orbit!

i keep saying the same thing but somehow the message is not going through. we seem to be arguing for nothing.

 

[aryan2007]

Why from your answer it FEELS like iam talking to a 1o years old.

I dont no who you are listening to and kissing your self in the mirror but get your head out of sand and realize AMericans have never ever in the history done any thing for any body including westren states if there isnt any thing in it for them.

ITS CALLED YOU SCRATCH MY BACK I WILL SCRATCH YOURS.WHATS THAT THING CALLED OH YEAH CAPITALISM.IAM SURE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT CONCEPT.BUT I HAVE NO INTREST IN YOUR ANSWER AS I NO I NO AMERICA NEEDS INDIA TO COUNTER CHINA.

That's why I said.. who is the only US ally in Asia with a significant pull??
India.. US is not giving us aid or anything neither do we want it... We are a cultural fit with US and can counter the world's 2 biggest headaches
growing influence of CHina
growing radicalisation of ME and Pakistan..

Middle East is anti US China is anti US Russia is anti US Pakistan is anti US
Japan and S Korea are now minnows.. India is teh big daddy..

OH I JUST REMMEBER WHAT HAPPEND TO THAT 126 FIGHTER JETS TENDER WHY HAS THAT NOT BEEN AWARDED TO RUSSIANS ALREADY.

Cause eval is going on.. MIg-35.. is a new aircraft.. Indian govt is bloody slow you ought to know that...

EVEN THE GUYS THAT MAKE GUNS THAT KILL 1000S OF AMERICANS EVERY YEAR HAVE LOT OF POLITICAL CLOUT IN USA.ITS CALLED LOBBIYEST STOP PAYING THEM AND WATCH THE INFLUENCE DISAPEAR.see what iam getting at if the lobbiyst dont get some thing in return for there work or they walk.

WHat is the ISraeli lobby getting?? why is US supporting Israel??
Indian Lobby is strong. and they obviously want to help out India.. they are rich and influential...

wait a minute i thought you said they want you to be countering china.yet at the same time they want you not get a permanent seat iam so confused.

Countering China economically.. Having veto power will make India a contender against US.. why are most African countries willing to deal with China over West or India.. because CHina besides having no problems with the type of govt has veto power they can block UN strikes against rogue nations..

i dont no how to tell ya mate but if u pay attention lots of farmers in india killing them self

I know this thread is being discussed. Post it there.. More will be killed if besides cotton other crops are put in WTO list..

indians openely ask to destroy irans nuclear instalations on most military forums.

Go to a RSS forum.. most Indians there will say nuke all Muslim countries..
India is against Iran having Nukes but if it gets it or tries to get it.. India is not going to do anything about it.. We don't meddle..

indians been playing around with pipeline since americans influenced.india voted against iran should i go on to say guess what you are doing exactly what they want.

India is for Iranian access to nuke tech for peaceful purposes but not for military purposes... Pakistan was developing nukes did India do anything?? was Indian opposed to Pakistan having nukes absolutely...

wait what happend to that previous statement they wants to bring india against china

Economically and to counter growing Chinese influence in Asia....
Whom would you be more comfortable in buying foreign goods from India or china?? and as an American?

well well well thats called do it or lose it

Yaar do you think India ever does what US says??? before you start on the IPI pipeline that is an issue because India went against Iran.. and it will be concluded once things cool down..
we are for Palestinian independence
we are for Iran having nuke tech
we were against Iraq war
we were against afghan war
we never send our soldiers to US-led missions
we don't allow foreing soldiers or let foreign countries carry out attacks from our soil

you guys hate Americans, Americans don't really favour you yet you allow them many facilities..

funny when they wanted to name a street in MARKHAM ontario canada after lahore indians in the area was the ones making the most noise against it.
i dont get it

as I said most Indians are ignorant about their religion..
And since this was written in a Sikh scripture so even hardcore Hindus might not Know it and as far as I am aware nor do many Sikhs know about it....

 

[aryan2007]

The more Russia starts getting pricey, the more India gets pushed into the western orbit!

Why??
do you think Indians are that too stupid.. with Israel and jt production there are no significant delays,with Russia we are getting a few years delay with our indigenous production a decade of delays with US we will never get the weapons only...

Russia for now and forseeable future... IMO..

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

well Pakistanis think of Muslims as a race mostly and I have not met one Pakistani who is proud or aware of achievements of ancient India... you guys have threads for Muslim scholars, warriors etc.. your govt fer chrisake glorifies Ghazi , ghauri etc. etc. .. Many claim to have at times false arab persian ancestry.. look at arian, awan etc.. be proud of your ancestors even though they weren't muslims.. and respect their memories and be proud of ur rich unique and original heritage.. Pakistanis ought to cherish it, nurture it and be proud of it.. Even the persians celebrate their pre-Islamic festivals...
This is ur heritage.. claim it...

I have not seen anyone having threads for ancient Indian warriors.. I mean one of the sr. members here is undecided if whether Bhagat Singh was a terrorist or a freedom fighter...

so for all practical purposes ancient India means present India... this could be a conscience decision or propaganda but an avg Pakistani is as detached from his heritage as an avg AMerican from reality..

PS: I am a Sikh I am all for achievements of Indians whether they belong to pre-Pakistan Pakistani lands or India irresp of religion... this makes me whom I am and I am damn proud of it..

I think u didn't look at this topic,
http://www.defence.pk/forums/history-culture/7650-ancient-history-not-appreciated-pakistanis.html

Chess is claimed by many countries like China and Iran. And you also can't rule Pak out