Wrong fatwa of Kufr upon Pakistani Constitution

[M. Sarmad]

No wonder the Quaid repeatedly talked about how 'Islam taught us democracy & the equality of man 1400 (time adjusted) years ago' !

Because Quaid e Azam`s definition of Islam was "Modern progressive Islam" , not medieval Hadith based practices

Quaids counselor on religious issues was Ghulam Ahmed Pervez

Yes , the same Pervez who was declared apostate by the Mullahs for his rejection of Hadith

The same Pervez who preached that Islam was not a typical religion of rituals and superstitious beliefs but was a challenge to the very institution of organized religion.

Who proclaimed that according to Islam all authority rests with "the law of God" as given in the Quran, whereby food and wealth are to be distributed equally to everybody.

Whenever Quaid talked about Islamic democracy and socialism , He did not mean anything like current Islamic Republic of Pakistan

Ghulam Ahmed Pervez was in close contact with Allama Muhammad Iqbal , another rejector of Mullah Islam for which he was declared an apostate too by Deoband & Barelvi scholars

Jinnah and Iqbal rejected traditional Mullah Islam , And ironically Mullahs today try to claim these great personalities as being followers of Mullah Islam !!

Iqbal was a reformer , not a traditionalist ,
In Words of Dr. Ali Shariati (The intellectual behind Iranian revolution) :

If one were to reconstruct the form of Islam which has been made to degenerate in the course of history, re-assemble it in such a way that the spirit could return to a total body, transform the present dazed elements into that spirit as if the trumpet of Israfil were to blow in the 20th century over a dead society and awaken its movement, power, spirit, and meaning, it is, then, that exemplary Muslim personalities will be reconstructed and reborn like Muhammad Iqbal.
The greatest advice of Iqbal to humanity is: Have a heart like Jesus, a thought like Socrates, and a hand like the hand of a Caesar but all in one human being, in one creature of humanity, based upon one spirit in order to attain one goal. That is, Iqbal himself: A man who attains the height of political awareness of his time to the extent that some people believe him to be solely a political figure and a liberated, nationalist leader who is a 20th century anti-colonist. A man who, in philosophical thought, rises to such a high level that he is considered to be a contemporary thinker and philosopher of the same rank as Bergson in the West today or of the same level as Ghazzali in Islamic history.

At the same time, he is a man we regard as being a reformer of Islamic society, who thinks about the conditions of human and Islamic society, a society in which he himself lives and for which he performs the jihad for the salvation, awareness, and liberation of Muslim people.

 

[Sliver]

Really not my cup of tea to decide what is what. But arent you guys tired of getting decided what is islamic and what is not? That confusion has created so much chaos. and since the tolerance limit of some of these "sects" is very minimal, its hurting so many.

it comes across like 2 bullies fighting among each other "hey I am right" - "No. I am right"

 

[FaujHistorian]

hey batmannow you are back with a new name
I can recognize your cluttered thoughts even if you are hiding behind K2

post ignored for childish trolling.

 

[PWFI]

I laughed out loud after seeing Usmani's picture. Sorry carry on.



You should be deported back to Pakistan. Happy to live in Secular France but wants to establish Islamic law in Pakistan? Hypocrisy much?

Who told you i don't want islamic law in france? You are talking to me like pakistan is a pure islamic nation
How did you come to your stupid conclusion?!

hahahah


Use of religion fundooism to become the king for life? Is that your model?

-- No separate legislature. Is that your model?
-- No separate judiciary. Is that your model?
-- No separate executive. Is that your model?

thus making any and every Khalifa a copy of Stalin and Hitler.

That's the model

hahahahahah

You really need to get a life----since Mr "think tank know a sh!t about islamic model, it's useless to discuss with you.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Because Quaid e Azam`s definition of Islam was "Modern progressive Islam" , not medieval Hadith based practices

Quaids counselor on religious issues was Ghulam Ahmed Pervez

Yes , the same Pervez who was declared apostate by the Mullahs for his rejection of Hadith

The same Pervez who preached that Islam was not a typical religion of rituals and superstitious beliefs but was a challenge to the very institution of organized religion.

Who proclaimed that according to Islam all authority rests with "the law of God" as given in the Quran, whereby food and wealth are to be distributed equally to everybody.

Whenever Quaid talked about Islamic democracy and socialism , He did not mean anything like current Islamic Republic of Pakistan

Ghulam Ahmed Pervez was in close contact with Allama Muhammad Iqbal , another rejector of Mullah Islam for which he was declared an apostate too by Deoband & Barelvi scholars

Jinnah and Iqbal rejected traditional Mullah Islam , And ironically Mullahs today try to claim these great personalities as being followers of Mullah Islam !!

Iqbal was a reformer , not a traditionalist ,
In Words of Dr. Ali Shariati (The intellectual behind Iranian revolution) :

If one were to reconstruct the form of Islam which has been made to degenerate in the course of history, re-assemble it in such a way that the spirit could return to a total body, transform the present dazed elements into that spirit as if the trumpet of Israfil were to blow in the 20th century over a dead society and awaken its movement, power, spirit, and meaning, it is, then, that exemplary Muslim personalities will be reconstructed and reborn like Muhammad Iqbal.
The greatest advice of Iqbal to humanity is: Have a heart like Jesus, a thought like Socrates, and a hand like the hand of a Caesar but all in one human being, in one creature of humanity, based upon one spirit in order to attain one goal. That is, Iqbal himself: A man who attains the height of political awareness of his time to the extent that some people believe him to be solely a political figure and a liberated, nationalist leader who is a 20th century anti-colonist. A man who, in philosophical thought, rises to such a high level that he is considered to be a contemporary thinker and philosopher of the same rank as Bergson in the West today or of the same level as Ghazzali in Islamic history.

At the same time, he is a man we regard as being a reformer of Islamic society, who thinks about the conditions of human and Islamic society, a society in which he himself lives and for which he performs the jihad for the salvation, awareness, and liberation of Muslim people.

As always AH bhai,

you have hit the ball for a sixer.


Just two minor and additional comments.

1. On Islamic religious matters, Dr. Asad (a Jewish convert) and Pervez were very close to Jinnah.

2. Jinnah's economic vision was less Islamic/Quranic driven and more drive by Fabian-ism (as per Fabian society of UK). Jinnah and many young men of his age were living in Britain during a great economic upheaval where Marxism went to Lenin-ism and then back to Fabian-ism.

I believe I saw reference to Febian society in a couple of correspondences between Jinnah and Iqbal.


Again I am not trying to oppose what you just said, but rather adding a bit more info.


Thanks

 

[Fracker]

View attachment 14577

Nope only this,

“…Allah has permitted trade and has forbidden riba.”
Qur’an 2:275 -

 

[PWFI]

Off course

stone age Islamism can never be compatible with the concept of modern democratic republic

it is like

Islamism is like a doneky cart pulled by bunch of @rses who want to "drive" on a modern motorway

Kotti school student, with littel bit of modern history knowledge, and he's comparing Islamic model with democracy---First educate yourself about what's islamic political system child----If we are in these situations today, it's because since last 60+ years we are ruled by democracy---and you are the product of this democracy

 

[FaujHistorian]

@Armstrong Chip in . Is democracy unislamic then ?

Sorry for chipping in for Armstrong


Please allow me to switch your statement around

Is Islamism undemocratic?

My answer: Hell yes.

Anything major from stoneage would not be compatible in today's world.

Islamism today is like a donkey-cart being forced to go on a motorway.

Result: Dead donkey, and damn pileup of cars and trucks.

So its the way of making profit but in a roundabout manner.

Well still the point is it can be islamized but is it in any way better? Or it just imposes more costs to the end consumer in its roundabout method of creating the same end result.

Also the fact is todays world is more dependent on trade, limiting ones opportunities by barriers such as this would restrict a countries potential.

Only for the sake of appeasing mullahs, ruining ones economy doesnt seem a bright idea to me.

Just sayin.

you got it!

Stone age Mullahs used to trade in gold and silver coins, sleep on a heap of sand among bunch of camels.

Now they want to drive modern economy using street violence.

So bunch of hypocrites from gulf said, Oh wait, we have an islamist system banking fraud for you.

You wanna give me your money

and Mullahs said. Hail to the hypocrites. yeah baby! here is our money. We likey likey Islamism, we likey likey banking that is covered in the green cloth.

yourself about what's islamic political system child----If we are in these situations today, it's because since last 60+ years we are ruled by democracy---and you are the product of this democracy

Muslim government don't implement even 1/100th of modern republican system

and that give a chance to Mullahtoos to jump up and down and claim

bring back stone age laws, bring back donkey and carts, dhenchoo dhenchoo

yes Mullahs bray

 

[bandit]

Sorry for chipping in for Armstrong


Please allow me to switch your statement around
Is Islamism undemocratic?

My answer: Hell yes.

Anything major from stoneage would not be compatible in today's world.

Islamism today is like a donkey-cart being forced to go on a motorway.

Result: Dead donkey, and damn pileup of cars and trucks.



you got it!

Stone age Mullahs used to trade in gold and silver coins, sleep on a heap of sand among bunch of camels.

Now they want to drive modern economy using street violence.

So bunch of hypocrites from gulf said, Oh wait, we have an islamist system banking fraud for you.

You wanna give me your money

and Mullahs said. Hail to the hypocrites. yeah baby! here is our money. We likey likey Islamism, we likey likey banking that is covered in the green cloth.

I always get attackes for saying this, but this Islam needs a reform to come out of dark ages.

Hell you guys even had such a great Sufi tradition, now people use sufi as some sort of an abuse to signify shirk..

 

[PWFI]

Muslim government don't implement even 1/100th of modern republican system

and that give a chance to Mullahtoos to jump up and down and claim

bring back stone age laws, bring back donkey and carts, dhenchoo dhenchoo

yes Mullahs bray

 

[FaujHistorian]

Nope only this,

“…Allah has permitted trade and has forbidden riba.”
Qur’an 2:275 -

Fracker bhai

it is extremely important to respect holy books and thus AVOID putting single verse without ever giving proper context (siaqo sabaq), especially when things like economy are being discussed. At least quote enough of material BEFORE and AFTER the verse in question to let the reader understand what the heck is being discussed.

Thank you

I always get attackes for saying this, but this Islam needs a reform to come out of dark ages.

Hell you guys even had such a great Sufi tradition, now people use sufi as some sort of an abuse to signify shirk..

Sufi traditions predate Islam.

Muslim Sufis just adopted the techniques.

 

[Dubious]

taqi Usmani is said to be govt appointed person who lures people in the name of interest-free banking whereas there NO such banking in Pakistan. the so-called Islamic banking currently offered by few banks are NOT interest free

I think a number of people are confused between interest (ribba) and profit and loss systems which Islamic banks give...the difference lies in how each is calculated and if it is a fixed percentage and so on....

on topic...it is actually confusing me now....many people say the constitution was not supposed to allow shariah Jinnah wanted a secular country and so on and then some go on asking which part of the constitution is non Islamic?! Does anyone actually know what the constitution actually says?

 

[Dubious]

As if Pakistan has had a big dose of all things Islamist and become a prosperous and thriving state due to it.

Apply Islamic banking as well, and it wil put Pak on the way to stone age 2x the current speed

I mean how ****!n retarded can you get?

Do you even know what Islamic banking is?

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[Solomon2]

it is extremely important to respect holy books and thus AVOID putting single verse without ever giving proper context (siaqo sabaq) -

I recall a Koran scholar, a Saudi, making such an argument ten years ago. He was dismayed that so many of his students wanted to skip all this and seek to become martyrs as soon as possible, apparently because that was a more-assured route to paradise than learning all this complicated stuff that they might not absorb correctly.

I've known teachers who put their students to sleep, but a teacher who makes you want to die and kill rather than sit and learn must be among the worst teachers in the world!

 

[Hashshāshīn]

As a muslim and as pakistani, i have all rights to judge pakistan and pakistani constitution.

Because you are a French national (I assume). Dual nationals should not have a say in these matters.

And so what if you're Muslim? Does that mean Indonesians, or Moroccans can judge Pakistani constitution too?