Wrong fatwa of Kufr upon Pakistani Constitution

[Jf Thunder]

I LIKE MY CONSTITUTION, IT IS COMPLETELY ISLAMIC (apart from a few things like the presidential power of pardon)

 

[araz]

Taliban supporters (like Orya Maqbool Jan) have now openly started supporting Taliban and declaring that Pakistani Constitution is kufr. When they were asked for their Proofs, then all of them were able to bring Only One Argument of "Bank Interest System" and thus for them Pakistani Constitution is Kafir constitution.

Pakistani Constitution is not kafir, but Interest System is mistake of our Rulers
According to Pakistani Constitution, the federal Sharia court declared interest system as non Islamic. This decision was challenged in the Supreme Court in 90s . And supreme court gave government the time till 2001 to remove the interest system, but our rulers were unable to acomplish this task.
Therefore, if the interest system still in place in Pakistan, then it is not the fault of Pakistani Constitution, but the fault of our rulers. Saudia and UAE have a lot of oil money, but despite trying they are still unable to acomplish this task. The Islamic government of Turkey, the Islamic government of Ikhwans in Egypt, Islamic Iran ... none of them was able to acpomplish this task.

Raising of weapons by Taliban against Pakistani State
Sahih Muslim Hadith
Hadith 4573 Narrated by Awf ibn Malik
The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: The best of your rulers are those whom you love and who love you, who invoke God's blessings upon you and you invoke His blessings upon them. And the worst of your rulers are those whom you hate and who hate you and whom you curse and who curse you. It was asked (by those present): Shouldn't we overthrow them with the help of the sword? He said: No, as long as they establish prayer among you. If you then find anything detestable in them, you should hate their administration, but do not withdraw yourselves from their obedience.

Taliban claim to be the fighting for the sake of Islam, but Islam and Quran has not gone beyond their throats. This one Hadith is enough to destroy whole Taliban Mentality.

Well in essence they are right but the lack of argument comes from their lack of knowledge. The real argument is that once Allah SWT said I have completed your religion and chosen for you iSLAM (you all know the Ayat Al youma akmal lakum deenukum Onwards). Once Allah has decreed this then for us to adopt a system in contravention of the islamic system is shirk. The reason it is shirk is because you have chosen to elevate the parlianment as the body that makes laws in place of the laws that have been made for you by Allah SWT or his prophet SAW.The pakistani constitution is a travesty of the highest order from this perspective as it pays lip service to ISlam saying there will be no law in this country contrary to Quran and Sunnah then just go on and adopt the British Penal code verbatum calling it pakistan Penal code. There is now after completion of islam no other source for you to follow but AllahSWT and his RasoolSAW and anything contrary to this is what would be labelled as Kufr.
I have only highlighted why the argument has been made and the reasons for it. I will not enter into any debate on the matter as this will lead to flame wars and I am not here to indulge in that.
Araz

 

[SHAMK9]

As a muslim and as pakistani, i have all rights to judge pakistan and pakistani constitution.

No you don't. Enjoying the fruits of a European country whilst complaining about Pakistani constitution being kufr, makes you nothing but a hypocrite. Save your "kufr" comments for France.

 

[araz]

First Bank to get him on Shairah board was Meezan bank where his son was the decision maker. Highest interest rate, financing only to profit bearing industry, ban on green field project financing. etc etc etc.


As per my personal experience Islamic banking has the highest interest rate making fool of people.

You are right as they have adopted the western system and put a label on it to fool the people.All the banks buy money from the bankat a certain rate and addthe libor on to the valueand you have to pay the principle amount back plus the interest plus their service costs. However none of the scholarss (including Muft Mohammad Taqi Usmani )said that the system is islamic. Instead they have said that it is close to the islamic system. I have a thought on the matter that since lenders loose out in the long run due to currency devaluation if we said for instance you need to borrow 1 million rupees, which equates to one hundred ounces of Gold. when you return the loan you have to return the loan in Gold ie you buy an ounce of gold every month and give it back to the lender or an equivalent amount of money keeping in mind the surrent value of gold. This may possibly be workable for everyone and there would not be any loss in it for anyone. However it needs to be discussed in detail with a Mufti as there may be problems which i am unaware of. However the other system where you part buy and part rent your house is islamic(as per my very limited knowledge) as they have A RIGHT TO ASSIGN WHATEVER VALUE THEY WANT TO THE PROPERTY. The other reasons why csots are high is because the infrequency with which we are utilizing the system so if the system was utilized more often it would become cheaper.
Araz

 

[PWFI]

No you don't. Enjoying the fruits of a European country whilst complaining about Pakistani constitution being kufr, makes you nothing but a hypocrite. Save your "kufr" comments for France.

you seem to be helpless! I have as much rights as you, so i don't care what do you think

 

[Cheetah786]

First Bank to get him on Shairah board was Meezan bank where his son was the decision maker. Highest interest rate, financing only to profit bearing industry, ban on green field project financing. etc etc etc.


As per my personal experience Islamic banking has the highest interest rate making fool of people.

First you will be declared enemy of state if you keep pointing out obvious hypocrisy exercised by the state.

Since islamisation introduced since the 80s of Pakistan has been a running success why not go after the banking sector next.

 

[xyxmt]

See this is the problem with Islamists.

f@rting cursing declaring kafir willy nilly.

Sadly



That Canadian citizen Mullah has no right to create instability in Pakistan.

We should catch him and ship to Gitmo

funny you never had any problem with looter from other countries who dont give a piss about your country but their own bank account and a man who sincerely want to change your country for the better....well you people are not famous for having good judgement

 

[Secur]

Sorry sir jee, i wanted to say Democracy is not compatible with, In democracy ALLAH (swt) is the "Hakim" while in democracy peoples are "Hakims"---estegfirullah. Nothing wrong with pakistani constitution, since in our constitution all laws should be according to Quran and sunnah. The problem is these laws are not implemented!

Remember one thing , there's no single system of governance prescribed as mandatory by Islam . God will not come down to govern you , its the people themselves who will run the system in one way or other . I have heard this ridiculous many times of Allah not being the ruler , but the constitution of Pakistan declares the same deity - the ruler in its preamble . Not sure , if you have read the constitution in detail . If you agree that it provides the " provision " for Islamic laws if the people so desire , then it is as Islamic as it gets . If a religious party gets enough majority to legislate in Parliament by the votes of the people who give their " consent to be governed " , then there's no stopping them from implementing Islamic laws .

Keep crying baby---Islam and democracy is not compatible!

Then , what is compatible with Islam ?

You really think you can get an unbiased and indisputable Caliph in this age somehow , when we have had difficulty choosing them back then in the days of the initial and righteous four ?

 

[PWFI]

Remember one thing , there's no single system of governance prescribed as mandatory by Islam . God will not come down to govern you , its the people themselves who will run the system in one way or other . I have heard this ridiculous many times of Allah not being the ruler , but the constitution of Pakistan declares the same deity - the ruler in its preamble . Not sure , if you have read the constitution in detail . If you agree that it provides the " provision " for Islamic laws if the people so desire , then it is as Islamic as it gets . If a religious party gets enough majority to legislate in Parliament , then there's stopping them from implementing Islamic laws .



Then , what is compatible with Islam ?

You really think you can get an unbiased and indisputable Caliph in this age somehow , when we have had difficulty choosing them back then in the days of the initial and righteous four ?

1. ALLAH (swt) haven't come to the earth for that, it mean you have to implement his laws!
2.Islam have his own political model.

 

[Fracker]

As per my personal experience Islamic banking has the highest interest rate making fool of people.

Profit "Yes", Interest or Ribba No. Ribba is different from Profit. Profit is a fix income, interest has every growing. In most of the cases you will end up paying more interest due to re-occurrence.

You end up paying more interest.....err profit under Islamic banking.

I don't think it's against Islamic rule.

Do we really need that from someone who lives in France?

Well, it's not need. As a muslim, i wanted to see his opinion.

 

[Sugarcane]

Profit "Yes", Interest or Ribba No. Ribba is different from Profit. Profit is a fix income, interest has every growing. In most of the cases you will end up paying more interest due to re-occurrence.


I don't think it's against Islamic rule.


Well, it's not need. As a muslim, i wanted to see his opinion.

 

[Secur]

1. ALLAH (swt) haven't come to the earth for that, it mean you have to implement his laws!
2.Islam have his own political model.

This is sad . You do not debate like that , my friend . Please elaborate , what did you mean by " the ruler of the country isn't Allah in a democracy " . Because common sense dictates that God will not rule a country or a region from his throne , you will always have to rely on " expelled from the heavens " the Son of Adam for that . The laws of the religion can be implemented in a democracy if the people so desire . Islam doesn't have any political model which is mandatory or compulsory for all the Muslims - you are free to choose your system of governance ac . In practicality , even the initial Caliphate wasn't in any way , indisputed or acceptable to all , which is the reason , there were so many civil wars in that era .

 

[Secur]

You are right as they have adopted the western system and put a label on it to fool the people.All the banks buy money from the bankat a certain rate and addthe libor on to the valueand you have to pay the principle amount back plus the interest plus their service costs.

For any country to reject the current financial model running on the interest system and make the entire banking and economic system " Islamic " , it will have to bring its own " world order " . In the end , even the current Islamic banks rely on the same " interest " based central monetary agency . Sometimes , the idealism just wouldn't do , mate .

 

[FaujHistorian]

funny you never had any problem with looter from other countries who dont give a piss about your country but their own bank account and a man who sincerely want to change your country for the better....well you people are not famous for having good judgement

Canadian Islamists are just an example of Pakistanis gone wild.

Don't worry we have Islamist traitors living in other countries too. Pakistan is so blessed! NOT!

Not when it comes to Islamists and marxists so-called educated but utterly ignorant Pakistanis settled in the West.

 

[SQ8]

1. ALLAH (swt) haven't come to the earth for that, it mean you have to implement his laws!
2.Islam have his own political model.

1. Laws that are defined in basic in the Quran..and given an exemplary implementation for the 6th Century in the Sunnah. Even in the Sunnah, the laws evolved to meet the requirements of the time.. or rather the conditions that existed. The more stronger and more concrete Muslim rule.. the more strict the laws.. that is not in Pakistan.

2/Which one? By the fourth Caliph this political model was falling apart. No fault of Caliph Ali(R.A).. but the model was just a framework(and only a moral framework) on which the norms of the day applied. When they did, divisions happened just as with any other political structure.