World's most expensive Metro !

[I.R.A]

Every sector needs improvements and no one is denying that but when people argue investment should not have been made in metro or other infrastructure their argument gets weaker. Any infrastructure project that is currently on going is creating direct and indirect jobs that will continue to support the economy but that doesn't mean the government gets a pass for ignoring healthcare and education sector. I am in no way downplaying the importance of healthcare or education but when you have a failing economy the only way to revive is by investing in infrastructure. If we go by the logic of some of our fellow PDF members then we should refuse China's investment in infrastructure and ask them to invest in our healthcare/education sector, stop Gwadar from developing and why even bother investing in new highways that are being built to link the entire country.

Rawalpindi Islamabad Metro project was not a necessity and it would not create 1000s jobs or contribute to economy. Instead what happened is already money spent on widening some of the Islamabad roads is wasted, because those roads are back to being narrow again.

 

[Bilal9]

I am a bit amazed at the argument going on here.

I know some parts of the Pakistani populace looks down on Bangladesh - but according to verifiable data and especially studies by Nobel Prize-winning economist Amartya Sen - Bangladesh did better at human resources and development indicators than India (especially womens' development) in spite of having half of India's per capita GDP. Womens' education is free in Bangladesh from 1st grade to University level. And India's figures are better than Pakistan's.

In almost every health indicator known (including hygiene) Bangladesh equals or bests Indian figures. This did not just happen in one day. It took years of planning and work. The Indian paradigm of ignoring poverty is not a good idea at all.

When you educate your women (especially the most poor women), your fertility rate will come down. Educated women will have less babies. They will actually participate in the workforce and contribute to your GDP. Even while wearing Hijab.

And there is development aplenty going on in Bangladesh - especially infrastructure development worth tens of Billions of dollars every year. Bangladesh is on a roll and it took a while to gain this critical momentum but I think we're there now. No amount of external meddling will work at this point.

True - Bangladesh doesn't need to deal with a large defense budget like Pakistan - but Bangladesh had a long-term plan for human development which we executed together with local NGO's like Grameen, BRAC and many, many others during the mid nineteen-seventies.

A large portion of the population (especially women) sitting at home having no rooti-rooji is a recipe for disaster. It is not a viable plan for the long-term. The rich have a responsibility to take care of the poor. Even the Quran and Hadith says so.

You have to set up jobs for your people - even if it means sewing chaddis and garments for less than a dollar a day. Or maybe something equivalent while you train your people at higher value-addition jobs. It makes a difference. A well-fed population is a happy, productive population.

Sending probes to Moon and Mars does not fill bellies. Giving them jobs does.

I don't mean to be dispensing advice as an outsider. But it hurts when I see the plight of the Pakistani poor who I consider to be my brothers and sisters. We helped our poor. We can help you too.

 

[TankMan]

Sadly, this thread is full of complete and utter nonsense.

Firstly, no one is saying 'abandon infrastructure'. Nobody is saying spend all the budget on ''spoon feeding the poor.'' If anyone is actually saying that I strongly disagree with them. What most people are saying is that such an expensive project is not worth it when there are so many other infrastructure projects that are required.

@WishLivePak 's argument is that infrastructure is necessary. Sure, that is correct. Perfectly correct. But infrastructure is not limited to roads, buses and flyovers. Sewerage, for example, is a form of infrastructure, and the sewers in Lahore flood every time it rains. They are infinitely more important and cheaper than the metro bus. Water - the metro is being given more importance than clean water. How can a country develop like that?

I was in favour of the previous Lahore Ring Road, which was important, needed and successful. but
The metro has done nothing important or significant; people still have to use Rickshaws to commute to and from the metro stations, and wagons and vans are still the dominant mode of transportation for the poor mazdoor, the target market for this project.

One point about the metro is that it supposedly lays some sort of foundation for future mass transit, the truth is that it doesn't. If Lahore continues developing properly, soon it will have to demolish this metro system and replace it with an underground system like many Western cities are doing now. Above ground metro systems create problems, especially when they are so irresponsibly planned and constructed in such dense and congested places as central Lahore.

And all this nonsense about poor people wanting to be spoon fed or whatever certain extra-successful individualist capitalists seem to be arguing here, it's nonsense. The people of Pakistan don't want any spoon feeding. Many don't have a place to defecate in, how are they expected to become as successful as you people? What 'self-entitled'? They never had an education at all, never mind one as good as yours @WishLivePak that you brag about. Most of them can't write. They simply don't know how to become successful or apply for visas or start businesses - even if they did they can't afford it. Yet they survive. Some of them thrive. Others don't. How does wanting a slightly better life make them 'self-entitled'?

This philosophy of treating the general population as a problem instead of an asset is horribly flawed - a country is its population. As long as the country is ruled by ostentatious people and their ostentatiously extravagant projects instead of the general population's needs being prioritized, development will be as slow as it is now.

Take a look at Britain's development and history - they had their steam engines and canals and fancy development. But they still had to prioritize clean water, eradicating cholera and living conditions in general so that they could have a healthier population that was actually productive. They proactively worked to improve living conditions for their people - that's how they actually developed. They began laying the foundations for their health system and welfare state back in the 17-1800s (Yes, yes, I know, they they gained all their riches from colonial imperialism - that's not the point. The point is how they used those resources)

''Self-entitled'' isn't even a correct term, entitled already means ''believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.'', the 'self' in 'self-entitled' is redundant.

And what's even worse is that all this is coming from Muslims, Muslims who have the example of the Holy Prophet's welfare state and the fact that he cared for the poor, regardless of how 'self-entitled' those poor people may have been at first. I do not wish to create a religious debate here, but I felt a little reminder might be required here, given that Pakistan prides itself in being an Islamic state.

know that I take economics and I know more than you. I live in west and our government pays 65% of fare by taxes it collects. Clearly it should build more hospitals and hire doctors (I've to wait 6 months to see specialist, because there aren't many! And my dad got kicked out of hospital because they needed the bed, even though we offered to pay) and make education free here (it runs into tens of thousands of dollars, which takes 5-10 years to pay back when graduated.)

If you are that knowledgeable about economics and the Canadian system, you should also know that a lot of that 65% tax goes to poor people, and even certain 'self-entitled' people who live off welfare and sit in their government-provided houses eating food from coupons that are your tax money and getting free healthcare - even though they have had extremely affordable, subsidized public education (till secondary school) and are perfectly capable of working.

 

[WishLivePak]

Okay I agree in part to what you say. But tell me how difficult is it to generate jobs in a country like Pakistan? Current government's solution for unemployment is cargo vans and cabs? Metro project is not going to create 1000s of jobs...... and believe me it was not critical for Rawalpindi Islamabad to have metro right now, it could have waited. Instead revival of dying industry should have been the top priority, projects with healthy return in future should have been priority. Revival of technical institutes should have been priorities, linking your future vote bank assurance with development projects is not a sincere intention or effort.

At least they need to set their priorities right, poverty eradication and development projects could be undertaken simultaneously with little bit of sincerity.

Gov't isn't building only metro projects. There are many jobs being created. There is ALWAYS unemployment, but it depends on how you look at it.

Metro is there to help these people get to their work. Otherwise they'll be paying to transport mafia higher fares.

Look I agree metro project is filled with corruption and it was priced high, but I don't support idiots who say we shouldn't build metro project at all until we eliminate poverty.

So again, I'm not saying we need expensive metro, other corrupted infrastructures (Islamabad airport). We need these at price that other countries pay. And we also need these before we spoon feed other people. Because gov't should look after people first who work hard to support the country, i.e. going to their jobs, getting educated, paying taxes and so forth.

Sadly, this thread is full of complete and utter nonsense.

Firstly, no one is saying 'abandon infrastructure'. Nobody is saying spend all the budget on ''spoon feeding the poor.'' If anyone is actually saying that I strongly disagree with them. What most people are saying is that such an expensive project is not worth it when there are so many other infrastructure projects that are required.

@WishLivePak 's argument is that infrastructure is necessary. Sure, that is correct. Perfectly correct. But infrastructure is not limited to roads, buses and flyovers. Sewerage, for example, is a form of infrastructure, and the sewers in Lahore flood every time it rains. They are infinitely more important and cheaper than the metro bus. Water - the metro is being given more importance than clean water. How can a country develop like that?

I was in favour of the previous Lahore Ring Road, which was important, needed and successful. but
The metro has done nothing important or significant; people still have to use Rickshaws to commute to and from the metro stations, and wagons and vans are still the dominant mode of transportation for the poor mazdoor, the target market for this project.

One point about the metro is that it supposedly lays some sort of foundation for future mass transit, the truth is that it doesn't. If Lahore continues developing properly, soon it will have to demolish this metro system and replace it with an underground system like many Western cities are doing now. Above ground metro systems create problems, especially when they are so irresponsibly planned and constructed in such dense and congested places as central Lahore.

And all this nonsense about poor people wanting to be spoon fed or whatever certain extra-successful individualist capitalists seem to be arguing here, it's nonsense. The people of Pakistan don't want any spoon feeding. Many don't have a place to defecate in, how are they expected to become as successful as you people? What 'self-entitled'? They never had an education at all, never mind one as good as yours @WishLivePak that you brag about. Most of them can't write. They simply don't know how to become successful or apply for visas or start businesses - even if they did they can't afford it. Yet they survive. Some of them thrive. Others don't. How does wanting a slightly better life make them 'self-entitled'?

This philosophy of treating the general population as a problem instead of an asset is horribly flawed - a country is its population. As long as the country is ruled by ostentatious people and their ostentatiously extravagant projects instead of the general population's needs being prioritized, development will be as slow as it is now.

Take a look at Britain's development and history - they had their steam engines and canals and fancy development. But they still had to prioritize clean water, eradicating cholera and living conditions in general so that they could have a healthier population that was actually productive. They proactively worked to improve living conditions for their people - that's how they actually developed. They began laying the foundations for their health system and welfare state back in the 17-1800s (Yes, yes, I know, they they gained all their riches from colonial imperialism - that's not the point. The point is how they used those resources)

''Self-entitled'' isn't even a correct term, entitled already means ''believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.'', the 'self' in 'self-entitled' is redundant.

And what's even worse is that all this is coming from Muslims, Muslims who have the example of the Holy Prophet's welfare state and the fact that he cared for the poor, regardless of how 'self-entitled' those poor people may have been at first. I do not wish to create a religious debate here, but I felt a little reminder might be required here, given that Pakistan prides itself in being an Islamic state.



If you are that knowledgeable about economics and the Canadian system, you should also know that a lot of that 65% tax goes to poor people, and even certain 'self-entitled' people who live off welfare and sit in their government-provided houses eating food from coupons that are your tax money and getting free healthcare - even though they have had extremely affordable, subsidized public education (till secondary school) and are perfectly capable of working.

This post, which I responded to another person, should offer some answers to your argument. I have said before that I did not mean every 65% of them want to be spoon fed. Some indeed lack the privilege, which is why I'm going to Pakistan and open and NGO, to help those who want to learn, but cannot.

See, if I have $100 and there are 200 kids who are going to die. 100 kids want to learn, but can't and they will likely get a job one day and support themselves. But there are also 100 kids who don't want to learn and continue to be spoon fed for rest of their life and say "God is testing us, Nawaz is anti-poor, Imran is selfish." So I will save not even one of these kids, no matter how awful i feel, because with my limited budget, I will cater to the 100 kids who actually will support themselves and possibly others one day.

My family used to be very poor. I wasn't born privileged. But the family worked hard. From few rupees a day became dollars. And today we support others, without asking for continual support.

Just to be more clear, if i had $200, ill save all 200 kids from dying. But if I have $100, i'll save the 100.

 

[TankMan]

Gov't isn't building only metro projects. There are many jobs being created. There is ALWAYS unemployment, but it depends on how you look at it.

Metro is there to help these people get to their work. Otherwise they'll be paying to transport mafia higher fares.

Look I agree metro project is filled with corruption and it was priced high, but I don't support idiots who say we shouldn't build metro project at all until we eliminate poverty.

So again, I'm not saying we need expensive metro, other corrupted infrastructures (Islamabad airport). We need these at price that other countries pay. And we also need these before we spoon feed other people. Because gov't should look after people first who work hard to support the country, i.e. going to their jobs, getting educated, paying taxes and so forth.



This post, which I responded to another person, should offer some answers to your argument. I have said before that I did not mean every 65% of them want to be spoon fed. Some indeed lack the privilege, which is why I'm going to Pakistan and open and NGO, to help those who want to learn, but cannot.

See, if I have $100 and there are 200 kids who are going to die. 100 kids want to learn, but can't and they will likely get a job one day and support themselves. But there are also 100 kids who don't want to learn and continue to be spoon fed for rest of their life and say "God is testing us, Nawaz is anti-poor, Imran is selfish." So I will save not even one of these kids, no matter how awful i feel, because with my limited budget, I will cater to the 100 kids who actually will support themselves and possibly others one day.

My family used to be very poor. I wasn't born privileged. But the family worked hard. From few rupees a day became dollars. And today we support others, without asking for continual support.

Just to be more clear, if i had $200, ill save all 200 kids from dying. But if I have $100, i'll save the 100.

I don't support idiots who say we shouldn't build metro project at all until we eliminate poverty.

So again, I'm not saying we need expensive metro, other corrupted infrastructures (Islamabad airport). We need these at price that other countries pay. And we also need these before we spoon feed other people. Because gov't should look after people first who work hard to support the country, i.e. going to their jobs, getting educated, paying taxes and so forth.

Agreed.

I did not mean every 65% of them want to be spoon fed. Some indeed lack the privilege, which is why I'm going to Pakistan and open and NGO, to help those who want to learn, but cannot.

See, if I have $100 and there are 200 kids who are going to die. 100 kids want to learn, but can't and they will likely get a job one day and support themselves. But there are also 100 kids who don't want to learn and continue to be spoon fed for rest of their life and say "God is testing us, Nawaz is anti-poor, Imran is selfish." So I will save not even one of these kids, no matter how awful i feel, because with my limited budget, I will cater to the 100 kids who actually will support themselves and possibly others one day.

My family used to be very poor. I wasn't born privileged. But the family worked hard. From few rupees a day became dollars. And today we support others, without asking for continual support.

Just to be more clear, if i had $200, ill save all 200 kids from dying. But if I have $100, i'll save the 100.

All this is good and logical, but how do you judge which kids don't want to learn and want to be spoon fed? How do you separate between the two? We were discussing welfare and development on a national level - how would you separate the genuine, hardworking underprivileged from the lazy and ill-intentioned ones? I mean, you could try to implement all the bureaucracy, paperwork and criteria possible to filter them out in the case of welfare (even then we have completely undeserving people taking advantage of it) but none of this applies when it's about development (e.g sewerage, water).

 

[Finer]

Because NS's tind isnt gonna save us if India decides to get a seizure nor will it save us from terrorist scums which have already ruined the lives of millions...and the budget they get is not 50% read around before concluding!

Selfish behaviour is 1 of the biggest reason we are not able to develop till date!

Again, irrational post which adds virtual benefit to this discussion.

with metro we dont get internet so not sure how you equated that...Metro is not a problem if it were not 6x as expensive as what our neighbours are capable of bargaining!

For a country running on loans you would expect the govt to actually get something cheaper than burying us in loans...their answer may also be: I dont live nor have any investments in Pakistan...

Metro is supposed to be expensive. But in the long run it will be worth it for two reasons; that metro can generate good revenue - good for the economy of Pakistan and convenience for the public given the crowded cities.

It doesn't make sense to argue how expensive that is considering those expensive project will serve Pakistan well in the long run which will seem cheaper. #Think for a long term

You think by going nuclear free India wont pounce on us like a hungry wolf? And those weapons arent for show, whose saving asses against terrorists? Why not show your country flags so we know what you are?

The only reason Pakistan is poor nation whilst India has billion people below the line of poverty is because of their possibly trillion dollars project invested towards expensive weapon projects for defense, hence Pakistan is in poor condition. Remember the slogan, "We will even eat grass for the Nuclear"?

Quite complaining then if you are okay with the budgets for Pakistan army rather than to eradicate poverty. You cannot blame political parties especially they are borrowing money to ensure they return with interest. Feeding poverty will not generate profit unfortunately, and the first is to improve the economy of Pakistan to stabilize the nation as whole, and only then, poverty will be eradicated eventually as the economy stabilizes.

That's what PMLN is doing right now.

Mind you it wasnt IK who did the nuclear thing...So NS logic is really blame everything wrong on others but take all positive credits!

Poverty can be minimized by attacking on corruption which is taking place from bottom-up...By cutting off soo much expenses by ministers ...their protocol alone prob costs us as much as defense weapons! Stop trying to be sons of kings and try to be a CIVILIAN of Pakistan ...

You were eager to blame PMLN for expensive projects even though it is invested through borrowed loan, and yet no sign of blaming towards Pakistan army for overusing budgets towards their defense.

I agree poverty can be minimized by attacking on corruption, but corruption is not gonna be resolved in one day. It takes time. First, why not focus on stabilizing the economy of Pakistan to make sure Pakistan becomes independent, and that will solve all the problems including poverty and corruption? One step at a time.

Investment that generates revenue will not only stabilize the economy of Pakistan, but also, it creates jobs. Just in case if you are still wondering "jobs are still there" not having clue how jobs are created.

Great post! I was going to write a similar response to @Fallen King's nonsensical post but you have done a far superior job to anything I could hope to achieve. You certainly poured cold water on the nonsense many here like to spout about India's space program being nothing but a vanity project and not serving India's needy (which is ISRO's mandate anyway).

Do you realize i was being sarcastic to Imranistan? I am actually big-time supporters of space. Next time, try to understand my post. Knowing english is not enough when you miss the point behind the post used in certain sense, a tone if you will.

Incorrect.


India's space program is directly helping India's poor.

India's space program is over 90% civic oriented and only 10% military or showpeice.

ISRO's space program has direct benefits for the country:
1. Resource mapping - Sats are used extensively to map the resources for exploitation
2. Crop monitoring
3. Telecommunications
4. Disaster Prediction and Relief

In fact, it is because of ISRO that recently the cyclone that hit Odisha caused no more than a 100 deaths when 10 years before a cyclone of the same intensity hit it caused the death of over 10,000 Indians and hundreds of millions of dollars worth of damage.

India runs the worlds largest network of tele-schools and tele-medicines. Because of ISRO's satellite network, hard to reach geographical areas get education and medicinal and agricultural knowledge.

India's space program pays for itself many many times over each year. This is not even including the commercial contracts it bags for launching foreign satellites.

The only reason foreigners don't know of these things is because its not cool to report these mundane aspects which is actually the bread and butter or the soul of India's space program. It just grabs more eyeballs to report that India;s space program is only about Mars and the Moon.

Do you realize i was talking to Imranistan? There is no way i would go such deep to explain to Imranistan. My point remains the same; despite of billion people below the poverty, that doesn't stop India from investing towards space. Actually, i have covered extensively about the benefits on space which will yields massive improvements in technology sector, but that being said, space still doesn't eliminate poverty, and that doesn't mean there shouldn't be investment on space.

The benefits you have listed will help India in the long run despite of me calling not-virtual-benefit, but that doesn't help eradicate poverty which suggest poverty will still be there. Does that mean we should stop investment on space now? At least, Pakistan is investing on metro for the convenience of public, yet being criticized by Imranistan.

 

[WishLivePak]

Agreed.

All this is good and logical, but how do you judge which kids don't want to learn and want to be spoon fed? How do you separate between the two? We were discussing welfare and development on a national level - how would you separate the genuine, hardworking underprivileged from the lazy and ill-intentioned ones? I mean, you could try to implement all the bureaucracy, paperwork and criteria possible to filter them out in the case of welfare (even then we have completely undeserving people taking advantage of it) but none of this applies when it's about development (e.g sewerage, water).

You raise good points, for which I have solution.

Come to school and you'll get free meals, among other things.

And like I said, there will still be some people who would want to come to study but can't because they've to work. But then I don't have bill gates bank password. I want every cent, that i have (and work hard for), to be given to those who want and deserve it the most.

Which brings economics 101 lesson. Opportunity cost. I have $100, how do i make the use of it so that my marginal benefit is the highest.

 

[Dubious]

Again, irrational post which adds virtual benefit to this discussion

You think blaming army with a budget that keeps changing depending which moron you are reading...the same army who is protecting you from 2 beasts on either side of your land as well the same army who is doing a cleanup job is rational?

Metro is supposed to be expensive.

Metro is supposed to be sustainable not expensive! Planes are expensive! Metro is daily service if it is expensive it shouldnt be on the table!

But in the long run it will be worth it for two reasons; that metro can generate good revenue - good for the economy of Pakistan and convenience for the public given the crowded cities.

I have no problem with A METRO...I have a problem with this part: 6x the price a metro should be! Get THAT difference 6x is not like twice but SIX times!

As for generating revenue...by making dams you would generate electricity THAT makes industries work ....AND HOLD flood waters MINIMIZING wastage of money for flood relief and also keeping water for dry spells! NOW THAT IS CALLED INVESTMENT!

will serve Pakistan well in the long run which will seem cheaper. #Think for a long term

Making a metro for 35% of the population who can afford it out of which 15% have their own cars and never have seen a public bus in their lives! whose going to cater for the remaining 65%? Something dams would cater, solar projects would do so is not exactly a brilliant plan now...that is if you think with your own brain instead of a brain slave habit!

"We will even eat grass for the Nuclear"?

I wonder whose slogan it was? Nope nuclear wasnt the reason...I cant believe this!

Is corruption something natural in the daily world that you people over sea it as a problem and put it in the norm category and dont even address it in the PROBLEMS WHY PAKISTAN IS POOR section?

Pakistan is poor coz of mismanagement and too many blood sucking leeches ...high rates of corruption can sink a nation esp when those corrupts only want to eat today and dont save for tomorrow!

Quite complaining then if you are okay with the budgets for Pakistan army rather than to eradicate poverty.

Why is corruption taken lightly or even ignored altogether? Why are you people against the army? Do you want to be under India? You can go join them now!

Feeding poverty will not generate profit unfortunately, and the first is to improve the economy of Pakistan to stabilize the nation as whole, and only then, poverty will be eradicated eventually as the economy stabilizes.

Feed a man you feed him for a day teach him to fish you feed him for a lifetime...I want to teach them ...

You are some really backward chap! Seriously you see those who give lives to save you as your mortal enemy while swinging on a metro project 6x more expensive than the normal is fine as long as your lord told you so?

That's what PMLN is doing right now.

PMLN is making you a metro 6x its price THAT is what it is doing now..I dont know about you but a normal human being will call it corruption and dhoka!

You were eager to blame PMLN for expensive projects even though it is invested through borrowed loan, and yet no sign of blaming towards Pakistan army for overusing budgets towards their defense.

Like I said you want to lick Indians feet, you are more than welcome to cross coz the way NS is going we will be at the mercy of someone soon as we are still not self sufficient!

Please do give me a budget list and show me where it is overusing and compare that to 6x more expensive metro (that is 1 metro...How many projects we got? multiply with that!)

but corruption is not gonna be resolved in one day. It takes time. First, why not focus on stabilizing the economy of Pakistan to make sure Pakistan becomes independent, and that will solve all the problems including poverty and corruption? One step at a time.

You should focus on both coz while stabilizing the economy and overlooking corruption, you are going to take 6x more time coz everytime you attempt to stabilize...you loose god knows how much in corruption while tackling both would result in more left over!

Investment that generates revenue will not only stabilize the economy of Pakistan, but also, it creates jobs. Just in case if you are still wondering "jobs are still there" not having clue how jobs are created.

Tell me what job? When was the tender for metro posted? When did people showcase their worth, their materials and was there a competition for best price and service? NOPE

Democracy do tenders while Pakistan gifts projects so no there is no job unless you know how to asskiss or know someone!

 

[Finer]

You think blaming army with a budget that keeps changing depending which moron you are reading...the same army who is protecting you from 2 beasts on either side of your land as well the same army who is doing a cleanup job is rational?

I can see how you are dealing in debate.

I think the main point has clearly fazed you big time.

Poverty started with Pakistan army prioritizing for improving defense related. Nawaz Sharif wasn't even there during that time. I don't blame Pakistan army for doing this since they had to do it given a lot of factors involved, one of them was security concern.

But i am pointing your hypocrisy as the truth about Pakistan army remains oblivious to you which led poverty in the first place ever since economical sanction was placed on Pakistan due to pursing its Nuclear program.

Metro is supposed to be sustainable not expensive! Planes are expensive! Metro is daily service if it is expensive it shouldnt be on the table!


I have no problem with A METRO...I have a problem with this part: 6x the price a metro should be! Get THAT difference 6x is not like twice but SIX times!

I agree, but nevertheless, despite of expensive project, in the long run it will be seem cheaper. So, take it is easy.

As for generating revenue...by making dams you would generate electricity THAT makes industries work ....AND HOLD flood waters MINIMIZING wastage of money for flood relief and also keeping water for dry spells! NOW THAT IS CALLED INVESTMENT!

Hence, a lot of energy projects including dam recently under the ruling of PMLN, not during Pervaiz Musharraf and Zardari. As soon as these energy projects start to operate, the economy in Pakistan will start to stabilize. So, be patient for the time being.

Making a metro for 35% of the population who can afford it out of which 15% have their own cars and never have seen a public bus in their lives! whose going to cater for the remaining 65%? Something dams would cater, solar projects would do so is not exactly a brilliant plan now...that is if you think with your own brain instead of a brain slave habit!

From what i have heard, people are happy with the option of metro, affordable price and many other reasons not mentioned here, but i am not gonna go in details.

I wonder whose slogan it was? Nope nuclear wasnt the reason...I cant believe this!

Check the statement of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, "We will make bomb even if we have to eat grass". Meaning even if Pakistan has to be starve for the sake of Nuclear program, then so be it. That's when poverty started in the first place ever since economic sanction was placed on Pakistan.

Economic sanction can be placed on nations for one reason, Nuclear program. Why do you think North Korea is a poor nation and South Korea is not?

Why is corruption taken lightly or even ignored altogether? Why are you people against the army? Do you want to be under India? You can go join them now!

Pakistan is not taking corruption lightly, but unfortunately, Pakistan is in trapped facing many crises simultaneously unfortunately.

You are some really backward chap! Seriously you see those who give lives to save you as your mortal enemy while swinging on a metro project 6x more expensive than the normal is fine as long as your lord told you so?


PMLN is making you a metro 6x its price THAT is what it is doing now..I dont know about you but a normal human being will call it corruption and dhoka!

I know you don't like PMLN and neither do i, but i am being realistic. But calling me backward suggests the kind of upbringing you have had which directly insult to your parents. Look at me, i am being nice to you. So, stick to debate and lay off personal remark which is very common with Imranistan. Barking like mad is not the answer, no offense.

 

[ziaulislam]

Yes, the references you have put are for those buses that link up with metro train stations. Without the trains, the buses would not be called metro.

nope i have been in USA and canada, small cities have metrobus and no trains and they are called as metrobus.
i have no idea from where did you get the idea..
metro simply means city, so both terms metrobus and metro rail are understandable for any child

 

[Daneshmand]

nope i have been in USA and canada, small cities have metrobus and no trains and they are called as metrobus.
i have no idea from where did you get the idea..
metro simply means city, so both terms metrobus and metro rail are understandable for any child

Good for you.

Ride buses and call them metro. I do not care.

metro - definition of metro in English from the Oxford dictionary

Pronunciation: /ˈmɛtrəʊ/

Definition of metro in English:
noun (plural metros)
underground railway system in a city, especially Paris.

adjective
Metropolitan: the Detroit metro area

Origin
Early 20th century: from French métro, abbreviation of métropolitain (from Chemin de Fer Métropolitain 'Metropolitan Railway').

 

[Dubious]

Poverty started with Pakistan army prioritizing for improving defense related.

Are you sure poverty started from there?

Please dont overlook the other details that led to the swift turns! Like not building dams even when we had the funds...Funds disappearing mid way of project....Lack of electricity hence no industry to no investment....its a whole line of things that caused it not just 1 thing to take the fall!

Pakistanis have a habit like Zia for all failures...yup a man dead for 30 yrs to take EACH AND EVERY bloody failure which a line of 30yrs worth of politicians could not fix (no blame on them they were angels, right? )

Likewise every root cause for poverty is the nuclear weapons....

Nawaz Sharif wasn't even there during that time.

Yet noon group claims it was all thanks to NS we got nuclear arms! go figure...Another set of hogging on to praises and appeals!

But i am pointing your hypocrisy as the truth about Pakistan army remains oblivious to you which led poverty in the first place ever since economical sanction was placed on Pakistan due to pursing its Nuclear program.

Your blindness towards a whole 20 -30 yr of events is remarkable

despite of expensive project,

Dude...it is not something to brush under the carpet for every 1 metro project we get other countries get 6 for the same price...I dont see that as development in any form or any positiveness...we will always be 6 projects behind of what WE COULD BE if there was planning and proper execution involved!

Hence, a lot of energy projects including dam recently under the ruling of PMLN, not during Pervaiz Musharraf and Zardari. As soon as these energy projects start to operate, the economy in Pakistan will start to stabilize. So, be patient for the time being.

You do know that HEC stuff started in Musharaff era..sure I am not his big fan but I dont fail to acknowledge what he did for the education dept...literally the only one who bothered giving a second glance at educating our people!

From what i have heard, people are happy with the option of metro, affordable price and many other reasons not mentioned here, but i am not gonna go in details.

25% of the people doesnt make for the silent 65% ..

Check the statement of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, "We will make bomb even if we have to eat grass". Meaning even if Pakistan has to be starve for the sake of Nuclear program, then so be it. That's when poverty started in the first place ever since economic sanction was placed on Pakistan.

So you mean to say we never recovered? Are you kidding me? We DID recover who dragged us back in? This type of ignorance towards other issues is what dragged us in the 1st place...brushing everything with the ignorance factor or under a rug is the BIGGEST factor of never being able to progress!!

Economic sanction can be placed on nations for one reason, Nuclear program. Why do you think North Korea is a poor nation and South Korea is not?

N. Korea isnt borrowing nor does it have an energy crisis even with sanctions! Do you think they dont have corruption there? A model to look at would be Japan ...Where people work and behave as human beings not kings of the world! Even CEO come in public transport not like in Pakistan everyone has their own mini army and they dare to point fingers?!

Pakistan is not taking corruption lightly, but unfortunately, Pakistan is in trapped facing many crises simultaneously unfortunately.

I can only laugh at this statement...Lack of transparency ...6x more expensive metro (having 1 metro while others get 5-6 for the same price is looting...How about I try to sell to you a hut in a village for the price of 6 city style villa?) is the epitome of corruption but you cant even see it...that is the problem with blind slavery where you dont realize what your leadership is doing!

I know you don't like PMLN and neither do i, but i am being realistic. But calling me backward suggests the kind of upbringing you have had which directly insult to your parents. Look at me, i am being nice to you. So, stick to debate and lay off personal remark which is very common with Imranistan. Barking like mad is not the answer, no offense.

My upbringing has nothing to do with pointing out facts....Backward is what it is ....suggest the mentality not that you are or behave as one!
And I gave the reason for calling you backward :

Seriously you see those who give lives to save you as your mortal enemy while swinging on a metro project 6x more expensive than the normal is fine as long as your lord told you so?

 

[ziaulislam]

Good for you.

Ride buses and call them metro. I do not care.

metro - definition of metro in English from the Oxford dictionary

Pronunciation: /ˈmɛtrəʊ/

Definition of metro in English:
noun (plural metros)
underground railway system in a city, especially Paris.

adjective
Metropolitan:the Detroit metro area
French métro, abbreviation ofmétropolitain (from Chemin de Fer Métropolitain 'Metropolitan Railway').

well i am just saying that half of the world ride buses and call them metro...
running after the origin of the word doesn't translates its use in the modern world...
if you dont know that there is no reason to argue with you

 

[Abingdonboy]

Sending probes to Moon and Mars does not fill bellies. Giving them jobs does.

Because having such a high tech industry creates zero jobs? Such a silly statement- you grow yourself out of poverty, just wanting it enough won't cut it.

 

[Daneshmand]

well i am just saying that half of the world ride buses and call them metro...
running after the origin of the word doesn't translates its use in the modern world...
if you dont know that there is no reason to argue with you

Dude, try to understand that words have a definite meaning. Metro means underground rail system in a city.

You can call a bus system running in a city metrobus and it would be fine. But calling the buses metro, will not turn them to metro. Anymore than calling cars, planes turning them to planes.

Enough said.