World's most expensive Metro !

[WishLivePak]

Have you read the article you posted?

Do you how the article uses statistical jugglery to say Pakistan's defense spending is lowest in the region? It talks in absolute monies spent on defense whereas globally the way spending on defense is measured is in percentage of GDP because of relative size of economies.

And Pakistan is NOT the lowest in defense expenditure there. Pakistan spends a full percentage point of GDP more than India on its military!
Data is available on world bank website!

datadotworldbankdotorg/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS

I thought you were a poster of more honour and would not resort to such tricks to make a point.



The reason why Pakistani BRT is more expensive than the Indian one is several reasons.
Pakistan's buses are far more expensive than the ones in India. India uses the regular low floor buses it uses in its cities for BRT as well and it is all built in India...whereas Pakistan imported more luxurious buses
Delhi (both BRT and regular city transport buses):

Lahore BRT:

Secondly, India's BRT is completely on grade whereas Pakistan has built dedicated flyovers for the BRT. This pumps up cost massively..but is also beneficial as it increases the capacity of the system.

Thirdly, whereas India's BRT system uses regular tickets, Pakistan has installed the automated systems and better air conditioned stations on its BRT.


For these three reasons, Pakistan's BRT system is far more expensive than Indian one and also why it is also better in the sense of amenities to the passengers.

However, ultimately the question boils down to this - is the system achieving its goal. If yes, then the money was well spent, if no, then it was not regardless of if the BRT offers electric massage chairs on the bus.

Thanks for details.

Indeed percent matters more than $.

US can spend 700b on defend, or china 100b+, but it is not huge sum of their GDP as percents. For example, if Pakistan spends 50% on defense (example) and says "but $ wise we spend lowest!" it just doesn't make sense.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

In actual its nawaz sharif doing business, earning profits through kickbacks

Do we really need a metro? Shouldnt we focus on more important things, Like the flood that sends Pakistan back to the stone age every 4 years.

 

[Dubious]

that doesn't mean we should stop development till we have no poverty.... these projects are going to help those 65%... the government can't and should not just give shit away to people.... they can only help make the opportunities....

I have clearly stated all over the thread I am not against metro....My questions are as follows:
Where we get 1 metro bus project, the world makes 6 of them for the amount we pour on 1....How is this not called corruption? 1:6 is not development of any form!

I am not asking to stop development but corruption...I mean if 100% of the population was going to use it and it cost 3x the price I would accept coz maintenance and long term stuff will be expensive IF 100% of the population is gonna use...Those who use rickshaw and taxi make how much % of the population? 15% already are rich enough to have their own car....65% earn BELOW average saying they took taxi or rickshaw is a far cry.....so basically only 20% MAY use it and we are paying 6x MORE for something we could have 6x less....its not double or triple but SIX times!

Just to clear up some confusion here, Metro typically means Metro Rail. Public transit that uses Buses is Bus Rapid Transit. Both can be joined together as a system with interchanges. Dhaka will have 3 feeder BRT lines and 3 arterial Metro Rail lines.

Dhaka's metro is going to be 22 KM long and the budget is around USD 2.7 Billion. Don't know if this is more expensive than the one being discussed here. A video,

At one of the earlier posts, Someone mentioned $20 million per km for Pindi Islamabad Metro compared to India's $3 million per km. I think the Dhaka Metro will end up costing six to seven times that of Pindi Islamabad project. Chori on a massive scale.

Right now bro...I dont care about other countries as I am more worried about my own...the scums in my country are not unique ....I am sorry to hear about your country's scum

 

[livingdead]

Do we really need a metro? Shouldnt we focus on more important things, Like the flood that sends Pakistan back to the stone age every 4 years.

you need both.. urban transport is important too

 

[Dubious]

Since you are comparing to other nations. Why not post comparatively analysis of estimation cost between Pakistan and other nations on metro bus on the exact amount figure in calculated currency?

I think one such thread is running....I saw it that is why I am getting angry coz when these projects were announced I was oblivious and didnt even write a word instead gave and walked out of the thread but now more and more thread regarding increased prices than estimated and other issues are arising with some Indians saying our Isb wala project is 6x more expensive ...

You do realize Pakistan is under the debt now, and education is non-profit entity, hence lack of investment towards educational sector. First, Pakistan has to get rid of debt by funneling towards profit-entity to stabilize the economy of Pakistan, and then change the priority for welfare of the state including educational sector.

Education is non profit entity? Really? What happened to all those jobs you were talking about? Shouldnt educated people fit in?

The only time it is non profit is for the vote bank! Educated thinking society will not repeat their error in voting for looters!

North Korea is placed by economical sanction that is creating huge hurdle on the economy of the nation while South Korea has no association with Nuclear program hence not placed by economical sanction and that's why it is thriving.

You forgot N.Korea got cut off thanks to them trying to take a punch (via talking only) at America....While Pakistan did no such thing and as many of you talked about even in sanctions Saudi helped us so did other nations ....Yet you people keep ignoring we never were in REAL sanctions....and hence nuclear plant NEVER actually dragged us!

Secondly I have even heard delusional supporters saying that NS started or finished nuclear plant....but I am yet to hear them blame NS for our failure...

When will we learn to channel EQUALITY do we not know the meaning? - I am very sure the answer is yes we do not know what equality means!

Wrong nation to take example since Japan was given money handsome to build the nation from the scratch of the ground after the bombing incidents, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Japan had money to invest towards profit-entity and non-profit entity [welfare such as education, benefits].

And our loans went all in 1 direction? So, does this not show that Japan who invested in everything went way ahead than our politicians REPEATED effort to ignore the other direction and still not getting anywhere?

No offense. Only backward people call other people backward people as they have no mannerism speaking.

1stly, no...Backward people may call the other person but I WAS talking about your thinking not as a person...I dont know you as a person but anyone who wants my nation to stay in darkness definitely has backward thinking....Till date no one denies EDUCATION is the KEY to success and many such quotes are not only for students but a nation!

Dark ages in Europe was not due to lack of infrastructure but lack of education....Even if you build all the infrastructure in Pakistan if you dont educate 65% of the remaining population:
These 65% will mismanage it
The few educated looting ones will eat the funds to run it
The few educated ones running it might still dont know how to use it (remember our engines not a single engineer who can fix em)
We will continuously have people joining the dark side (terrorists)
We will also continuously have debt cycle and suicidal for farmers
Any stupid politician dies and all the infrastructure is burned...You can take more loans and start again! THIS I dont think is in anyway PROFIT ENTITY!
Educating and channeling to push law and order is more profitable in the long run!

All this happening while you people cheer for metro does sound rather inhumane!

Do whatever you want, but your behavior will reflect poorly on your upbringing by your parents.

Now this sort of thinking is another problematic thing....Why should parents take the fall of anyone...Quran clearly says everyone stands for their sins alone! No one takes another's burden....However, in Shariah and repeatedly by the sahaba they feared to be elected leader for they knew they would be answerable to ALLAH regarding the way the rule/ run a country...

The way I see idiots contesting for election without seeing the burden of the responsibilities can only be described as Jahil (and this is an arabic word with the English equivalent to ignorant but much worse)

We can agree to disagree, but learn to debate politely.

I had been polite in the first 1.5 yrs on this board no one listens to nice people!

I think it has been scrapped now.

wasnt that a waste?

Do we really need a metro? Shouldnt we focus on more important things, Like the flood that sends Pakistan back to the stone age every 4 years.

Someone educate the govt on the expenses and long term benefit of flood relief and how much they can save over long period of time if they sort that problem over spending to re-fix everything after a spell of rain or floods..

 

[qamar1990]

I have clearly stated all over the thread I am not against metro....My questions are as follows:
Where we get 1 metro bus project, the world makes 6 of them for the amount we pour on 1....How is this not called corruption? 1:6 is not development of any form!

i was not aware of this... any proof for this claim?? 1 for the cost of six???
building a metro in different places will cost different amounts... for example building a metro in a large city takes more work becuase of all the hurdles...so it will cost more... while the same metro will cost less in a smaller city...
still no matter what it shouldnt cost 6 times as much or even twice as much....
show me a place that built a metro like the lahore metro for a smiliar amount then we can say that there was corruption..
but its the first of its kind in our part of the world..

I am not asking to stop development but corruption...I mean if 100% of the population was going to use it and it cost 3x the price I would accept coz maintenance and long term stuff will be expensive IF 100% of the population is gonna use...Those who use rickshaw and taxi make how much % of the population? 15% already are rich enough to have their own car....65% earn BELOW average saying they took taxi or rickshaw is a far cry.....so basically only 20% MAY use it and we are paying 6x MORE for something we could have 6x less....its not double or triple but SIX times!

this is not true at all.....we dont know these numbers.... these are numbers only according to you.

 

[NIA]

wasnt that a waste?

Yes it was...
My city visakhapatanam (vizag) is going to get metro soon
Visakhapatnam Metro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With help from delhi metro rail corporation

 

[Dubious]

i was not aware of this... any proof for this claim?? 1 for the cost of six???

Some Indian here on PDF claimed their metro was built at 1/6th the price...I wouldnt be surprised at all if it was close to the truth (1/4)

building a metro in different places will cost different amounts... for example building a metro in a large city takes more work becuase of all the hurdles...so it will cost more... while the same metro will cost less in a smaller city...
still no matter what it shouldnt cost 6 times as much or even twice as much....

You sure...recently there was a thread stating prices are way higher than estimated and announced....

And some other countries also didnt get theirs built at this cost...I am not sure what kind of bargaining NOON league is capable of!

Labour cost in Pakistan is very low as compared to any country so it should have balanced off!!

show me a place that built a metro like the lahore metro for a smiliar amount then we can say that there was corruption..
but its the first of its kind in our part of the world..

First or last ...I was talking about Isb wali not Lahore wali!

this is not true at all.....we dont know these numbers.... these are numbers only according to you.

We dont know the numbers but how many use public transport? Koi estimate tou hona cha hiyea! And jo itna tamasha bana ray hain Nooni ...How many of them use it?

 

[qamar1990]

]


We dont know the numbers but how many use public transport? Koi estimate tou hona cha hiyea! And jo itna tamasha bana ray hain Nooni ...How many of them use it?

500,000 use the lahore metro everyday... minimum...if not more...all of the people who dont have cars will use metro and the ones that have cars will benefit from less traffic.

 

[Dubious]

500,000 use the lahore metro everyday... minimum...if not more...all of the people who dont have cars will use metro and the ones that have cars will benefit from less traffic.

THAT is ideal case....or expected ...I wanna know the now case

 

[qamar1990]

THAT is ideal case....or expected ...I wanna know the now case

thats now actually

 

[PakCan]

So @Akheilos all that ranting was because you read a post by an Indian member that their metro cost way less? Or is there any actual proof.

 

[Bilal9]

So @Akheilos all that ranting was because you read a post by an Indian member that their metro cost way less? Or is there any actual proof.

Sometimes it also depends on difficulty and cost of land acquisition. In the middle of Dhaka (Karwan Bazaar) - for example, land prices have gone up to Manhattan levels. Its ridiculous.

 

[WishLivePak]

So @Akheilos all that ranting was because you read a post by an Indian member that their metro cost way less? Or is there any actual proof.

It's because she's against pretty much any development and prefers that everyone be spoon fed first. I am all for education, but what will education do if there are no jobs available? We have to hire people from outside, who are very costly, into designing infrastructure, books, etc. You give people good education, they'll just go work some other country. I'm getting good education here in Canada, but if gov't fails to create job (because too busy doing welfare programs), then I can't sit, I'd go overseas and find myself a job and pay taxes there.

We're coming out of darkness after PPP era. Every nation and creditors are appreciating our performance. We cannot go from 100% corruption to 0%. The cabinet, or people under it may not be corrupted, but corruption runs in our blood.

She has no idea how world works. She complains how the budget is overshooting, which was what we discussed in economics class. If gov't is honest and tells the actual cost, even in Canada, people will refuse it. That's why every project overshoots by multiple times! I mean, as canadian, you know the F-35 jets we're buying. If we knew actual cost when we signed up, will we have had allowed gov't to pursue these?

Furthermore, development is very political, per economics. Small scale projects are more worthy, but do they make a news? Lets say Punjab gov't gives 5 buses to city of Faisalabad. Will that be news? Which is why, even in west and east, gov't pursue expensive project. They need to get re-elected, which 5 buses isn't going to help with.

We actually have a very good transit system at place where I live, but we're investing $7.5b expanding/improving it over the next 10 years. We are going to be paying additional tax on EVERYTHING (yet people still support it!). Also, the project is going to overshoot in the end, because if we were to be told "hey, we're gonna pay $30b for this project," no one will vote for it.

500,000 use the lahore metro everyday... minimum...if not more...all of the people who dont have cars will use metro and the ones that have cars will benefit from less traffic.

Arguing with ignorance is such a facepalm.

I wonder why Imran was saying of making train in Peshawar (changed to bus later) when there is polio issue, lack of education and health and so forth.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Leader and @xyxmt both of you really need to calm down
dont bring personal insults in your arguments