Will use KP's force -CM Mahmood Khan.

[Clutch]

Well you have a 'non western government' in Afghanistan ruled by Pashtuns supported by Pakistani establishment. I wonder how that is going. It certainly seems things have gone from bad to worst.

Doubt it. Pakistani establishment can't run this nation forget about another. .. lol.

 

[Edevelop]

Doubt it. Pakistani establishment can't run this nation forget about another. .. lol.

Because that 'another' are basically same people. As much as we want to pretend Afghans are different, they are not. They are as religiously charged, gender hating, and corrupt as our people.

 

[Clutch]

Because that 'another' are basically same people. As much as we want to pretend Afghans are different, they are not. They are as religiously charged, gender hating, and corrupt as our people.

Gender hating is a new age BS...

 

[Edevelop]

stop interacting too much with cringe Lahori burgers, even their parents regret their existence- they dont represent even .05% of Punjab

braah... when was the last time you truly explored the province of 120 million people- this is SO UNTRUE lol

we don't follow castes- its clans
and yes- and it's a positive development


in some places it is but in the majority of Pakistan yeas you are right

uncontrolled and almost rouge army is the real issues it seems - others are just sign of this rot

Bro I've never come across a Punjabi from our side who is proud of his culture. I would say the Sikhs of East Punjab care more deeply.

I have hardly seen Pahtuns marrying Punjabis, Balochi marrying Punjabi, and Sindi marrying Punjabi. At least here in Canada I see Punjabis marrying Urdu Muhajirs and its because both have inferiority complexes. Still I don't think its a race issue. It's more so customs of other ethnic groups. A feudal will marry a feudal and a tribesman will want to keep their traditions. Unless that is abolished and an all inclusive economy, we are not going to see any change.

In Pakistan especially in urban areas no one speaks Punjabi with their kids but the positive development is a jutt will marry a gujjar etc which was unthinkable. In rural areas idk they probably have different customs.

Gender hating is a new age BS...

I'm not that dude haha. But when I say gender hating I mean not allowing women to contribute to country's economy. In many places a woman needs a man for everything and getting permissions

 

[Edevelop]

Lol thousands of Punjabis are married with pathan women

Waisay all police officers from sp to IG are federal government employees there are some rankers but most are psp and many of them would be from other provinces. Would they follow this type of orders of provincial government?

If you mean Pathans from Punjab, yes that is common. But if you mean someone from Gujranwala marrying someone from Banu, I doubt lol.

There is no Punjabi nationalism. But there is ethnic nationalism in Punjab for example saraiki. Ethnic nationalism hamesha wahan hota ha jo ethnic groups khud ko oppressed samajhtay hain Punjabis are largest group unko kon oppress kar sakta ha?

Yes, that I agree and that's another issue. But that is fake nationalism. The waderas of south Punjab played this saraiki card so they can split and always win elections. I don't know wtf is saraiki language. Its basically a Punjabi dialect.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Bro I've never come across a Punjabi from our side who is proud of his culture.

meet more people I guess, people don't chimp out over it true- but the majority of the people do care about it, feel it
I don't know who yall are meeting to come to these conclusions?

I would say the Sikhs of East Punjab care more deeply.

we are 35-40% of 220 million- you want us to go that route?... think about it

I have hardly seen Pahtuns marrying Punjabis, Balochi marrying Punjabi, and Sindi marrying Punjabi. At least here in Canada I see Punjabis marrying Urdu Muhajirs and its because of their inferiority complexes.

wth lol how's interethnic marriage = inferiority complex? -
we weren't even marrying outside of clans probably some 2-3 decades ago, it's still a big thing but in urban, educated classes it is decreasing
you think any jutt, arain, Kamboj, or whatever clan living in rural areas or lower-middle-class urban areas would ever marry out - their own extended family will beat the crap out of their kids if they fall out of line

- urban, educated classes, yes they marry out, and only less tribalist, similarly educated people left are probably Urdu speakers not to mention our culture matches with em and to some extent Sindhis the most (with Sindhis its more of a historical relationship (our famous poets could write poems in each other's language for example)one but nowadays they don't migrate to Punjab unlike every other ethnic group or are in the diaspora so people don't know about it)

"inferiority "
dude till the mid to late 80s probably we were the richest state in all of South Asia despite not being on the coast (fauji f ups and adventures ruined it afterward- these rouge donkeys should be controlled), even now most of the populated South Asian states located deep inland have bad living standards, we are among the few who beat the trend (other 2-3 are in India), go to Africa a lot of businesses would either be Muslim Punjabi or Gujarati Muslim (Hindus play a major role too but I am just talking about the Muslim side) , our Sufi poetry work is considered among top echelons of Sufi poetry works, in the region with around 600 million Muslims only man to win Nobel prize for science is Punjabi jutt, one of the worlds earliest known global sports star was from Punjab (from 3rd world country, not Europe) , only Pakistani song to be in top European charts for weeks was a Punjabi song, only Pakistani singer with some sorta global recognition was Punjabi who sung a lot of his songs in Punjabi, pleny of other things can go on and on with it, thats one Steller records in almost every field
only ignorant people would feel it

All of it is gods blessings- the only curse throughout history being negative 50 leadership skills, never had a leader of men throughout its history, society is incapable of producing good leaders
this curse haunts Pakistan too- that's why I have recognized for Pak to succeed it probably needs leaders from other groups

In Pakistan especially in urban areas no one speaks Punjabi with their kids.

braah my family owns auto parts factories, we do good- all of our family speak teth Punjabi at home, so do my cousins and their kids and as far as I know, 85-90% of people I have met in my circles do too

that other 10% is exaggerated and is used to paintbrush on all 85-90%

In rural areas they probably do.

like most places, rural areas are the purest in terms of language , traditions, culture etc

 

[RealNapster]

but there's very big racism, ethnic chauvinism problem

no violence though

Past 76 years of existence along each other and still have to see a single such incident. Shows that ethnic chauvinism is dead or non-existant.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

@Edevelop

You sound like a chump.

Punjabis embarrassed of being punjabi?

LoL

Get out of that little bubble in Toronto you call the ‘world’.

 

[Edevelop]

meet more people I guess, people don't chimp out over it true- but the majority of the people do care about it, feel it
I don't know who yall are meeting to come to these conclusions?


we are 35-40% of 220 million- you want us to go that route?... think about it

wth lol how's interethnic marriage = inferiority complex? -
we weren't even marrying outside of clans probably some 2-3 decades ago, it's still a big thing but in urban, educated classes it is decreasing
you think any jutt, arain, Kamboj, or whatever clan living in rural areas or lower-middle-class urban areas would ever marry out - their own extended family will beat the crap out of their kids if they fall out of line

- urban, educated classes, yes they marry out, and only less tribalist, similarly educated people left are probably Urdu speakers not to mention our culture matches with em and to some extent Sindhis the most (with Sindhis its more of a historical relationship (our famous poets could write poems in each other's language for example)one but nowadays they don't migrate to Punjab unlike every other ethnic group or are in the diaspora so people don't know about it)

"inferiority "
dude till the mid to late 80s probably we were the richest state in all of South Asia despite not being on the coast (fauji f ups and adventures ruined it afterward- these rouge donkeys should be controlled), even now most of the populated South Asian states located deep inland have bad living standards, we are among the few who beat the trend (other 2-3 are in India), go to Africa a lot of businesses would either be Muslim Punjabi or Gujarati Muslim (Hindus play a major role too but I am just talking about the Muslim side) , our Sufi poetry work is considered among top echelons of Sufi poetry works, in the region with around 600 million Muslims only man to win Nobel prize for science is Punjabi jutt, one of the worlds earliest known global sports star was from Punjab (from 3rd world country, not Europe) , only Pakistani song to be in top European charts for weeks was a Punjabi song, only Pakistani singer with some sorta global recognition was Punjabi who sung a lot of his songs in Punjabi, pleny of other things can go on and on with it, thats one Steller records in almost every field
only ignorant people would feel it

All of it is gods blessings- the only curse throughout history being negative 50 leadership skills, never had a leader of men throughout its history, society is incapable of producing good leaders
this curse haunts Pakistan too- that's why I have recognized for Pak to succeed it probably needs leaders from other groups

braah my family owns auto parts factories, we do good- all of our family speak teth Punjabi at home, so do my cousins and their kids and as far as I know, 85-90% of people I have met in my circles do too

that other 10% is exaggerated and is used to paintbrush on all 85-90%

like most places, rural areas are the purest in terms of language , traditions, culture etc

Historically Punjab's contribution in Pakistan's economy has been tremendous, naturally, being the largest ethnic group, you would expect that, if not, you would want to see more contribution. if Punjab were to be a separate country right now, it would be ranked in the top 10 most populous country in the world about the size of Russia.

Yet the individual successes are no where close to a country like that. More needs to be done. Most of the economy is agriculture which the British developed. I wish there were more people like Abdus Salam who btw a family member of mine had developed a scientific relationship with him. Rather than appreciating what he did for Pakistan and making Punjabis proud, people of Punjab disowned him and still as we speak people do inappropriate stuff with his grave in Jhang.

Like I said there is no such thing as Punjabi nationalism as if there was ever one, perhaps there would have been more political leaders. The only recognizable leaders were Zia ul Haq but like someone here mentioned he brought an influx of Afghan refugees and migrants so he can't be considered a Punjabi nationalist. The other recognizable heads of state of Punjabi origin were Chaudhary Shujat, Raja Pervez Ashraf, Yusuf Raza Gilani, and Shahid Khaqan Abbasi but they were very short lived and not independent to make their policies.

We Kashmiris are probably 1% of Pakistan's population yet we have a comparable number of scholars and artists. Obviously Dr. Alama Iqbal and Ghani Kashmiri are well known poet figure everyone knows from Persia to Spain, but we also had people like Dr. Mahbub ul Haq, whose plans are famous for developing modern South Korea and to have founded the HDI. If I start mentioning Pakistanis of Kashmiri origin, it would be a long list so I won't dwell too much on that...Btw I'm not a fan of biased journalists like Dr. Moed Peerzada, but again he is a Kashmiri and I respect that he is from my culture and that he is a doctor. Our differences of opinion doesn't change who we are. That's the beauty.

Basically we were once brahmins which was a scholar class. We stick together in best or worst of times. Take my example. Despite my family being thrown out of occupied Kashmir, I'm the 7th generation in my family to be university educated. My family has history of doctors, lawyers and engineers. Like our dardic brethren, Baltistanis, who have 90% literacy rate, we make no distinction between men and women. Probably those Kashmiris who live in Punjab are a little different but no one abuses them.

@lastofthepatriots

I'm pretty sure I have seen more world than you. I guess the good thing is at least there are few Punjabis like yourself who are proud. I only wish majority don't underestimate their culture. Pakistan's strength and existence lies in it's diversity. Urdu or Arabic is not going to define who we are.

 

[ghazi52]

Let him sleep for a while, at PM speech in Assembly hall...

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Historically Punjab's contribution in Pakistan's economy has been tremendous, naturally, being the largest ethnic group, you would expect that, if not, you would want to see more contribution. if Punjab were to be a separate country right now, it would be ranked in the top 10 most populous country in the world about the size of Russia.

Yet the individual successes are no where close to a country like that. More needs to be done. Most of the economy is agriculture which the British developed. I wish there were more people like Abdus Salam who btw a family member of mine had developed a scientific relationship with him. Rather than appreciating what he did for Pakistan and making Punjabis proud, people of Punjab disowned him and still as we speak people do inappropriate stuff with his grave in Jhang.

Like I said there is no such thing as Punjabi nationalism as if there was ever one, perhaps there would have been more political leaders. The only recognizable leaders were Zia ul Haq but like someone here mentioned he brought an influx of Afghan refugees and migrants so he can't be considered a Punjabi nationalist. The other recognizable heads of state of Punjabi origin were Chaudhary Shujat, Raja Pervez Ashraf, Yusuf Raza Gilani, and Shahid Khaqan Abbasi but they were very short lived and not independent to make their policies.

We Kashmiris are probably 1% of Pakistan's population yet we have a comparable number of scholars and artists. Obviously Dr. Alama Iqbal and Ghani Kashmiri are well known poet figure everyone knows from Persia to Spain, but we also had people like Dr. Mahbub ul Haq, whose plans are famous for developing modern South Korea and to have founded the HDI. If I start mentioning Pakistanis of Kashmiri origin, it would be a long list so I won't dwell too much on that...Btw I'm not a fan of biased journalists like Dr. Moed Peerzada, but again he is a Kashmiri and I respect that he is from my culture and that he is a doctor. Our differences of opinion doesn't change who we are. That's the beauty.

Basically we were once brahmins which was a scholar class. We stick together in best or worst of times. Take my example. Despite my family being thrown out of occupied Kashmir, I'm the 7th generation in my family to be university educated. My family has history of doctors, lawyers and engineers. Like our dardic brethren, Baltistanis, who have 90% literacy rate, we make no distinction between men and women. Probably those Kashmiris who live in Punjab are a little different but no one abuses them.

Majority of Kashmiri origin people in Punjab came in 18-19th century escaping famine, they were mostly poor looking to survive. Settled in punjab villages and worked for zamindars. I can assure you majority of Kashmiris in punjab are like gullu butts and not university educated. Doubt these poor souls were brahmins either.

The type of nationalism you describe probably will end Pakistan federation if adopted by punjabis. To start of this will make all other ethnic groups living in punjab insecure from Islamabad to Rajanpur. Right now Punjab is the place to live in Pakistan to escape ethnic nationalist shitholes that are 3 other provinces. Thats why you see even baloch and pashtun nationalist party leaders who base their politics on punjabi hate, but marry their daughters to punjabis so they can live in punjab in peace. Mengal BNP and Asfaryndar of ANP.

This type of punjabi nationalism exit even if right now just on social media in response to other ethnic nationalists.

 

[Edevelop]

Majority of Kashmiri origin people in Punjab came in 18-19th century escaping famine, they were mostly poor looking to survive. Settled in punjab villages and worked for zamindars. I can assure you majority of Kashmiris in punjab are like gullu butts and not university educated. Doubt these poor souls were brahmins either.

The type of nationalism you describe probably will end Pakistan federation if adopted by punjabis. To start of this will make all other ethnic groups living in punjab insecure from Islamabad to Rajanpur. Right now Punjab is the place to live in Pakistan to escape ethnic nationalist shitholes that are 3 other provinces. Thats why you see even baloch and pashtun nationalist party leaders who base their politics on punjabi hate, but marry their daughters to punjabis so they can live in punjab in peace.

This type of punjabi nationalism exit even if right now just on social media in response to other ethnic nationalists.

That's correct. The ones who came in the 18th or 19th century did come to escape famine. But no not everyone worked for zamidars. People like gullu butts exist not because of race but because of economic divide in the country. The gap between rich and poor is growing no matter who you are. Besides, there were also marriages between Punjabis and Kashmiris. A Kashmiri man marrying an arain woman would have children keep the Kashmiri surname and then them marrying a Punjabi would basically make them 3/4 Punjabi. This is why I said Kashmiris of Punjab are a little different. So you have to trace who is a real Kashmiri and who is not. We already know Mirpuirs are fake Kashmiris. This subject is very ambiguous and long so lets not go there.

I'm not suggesting Punjabis start becoming nationalists like other ethnic groups. The only thing we hope is at least they speak their language and do not neglect their history under pressure of others, if indeed there is one. Like I said the Sikhs are better in keeping their traditions, despite living in a hindu and multi-ethnic dominated state There is more to learn from them. Pakistan's future is not creating provinces on ethnic lines but instead creating administrations within provinces. That will do more good.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

That's correct. The ones who came in the 18th or 19th century did come to escape famine. But no not everyone worked for zamidars. People like gullu butts exist not because of race but because of economic divide in the country. The gap between rich and poor is growing no matter who you are. Besides, there were also marriages between Punjabis and Kashmiris. A Kashmiri man marrying an arain woman would have children keep the Kashmiri surname and then them marrying a Punjabi would basically make them 3/4 Punjabi.. So you have to trace who is a real Kashmiri and who is not. We already know Mirpuirs are fake Kashmiris. This subject is very ambiguous and long so lets not go there.

I'm not suggesting Punjabis start becoming nationalists like other ethnic groups. The only thing we hope is at least they speak their language and do not neglect their history under pressure of others, if indeed there is one. Like I said the Sikhs are better in keeping their traditions, despite living in a hindu and multi-ethnic dominated state There is more to learn from them. Pakistan's future is not creating provinces on ethnic lines but instead creating administrations within provinces. That will do more good.

At the moment the nationalism you describe exist on small scale and that is dangerous trend. Right now its on social media but who knows in 20 years when punjabis start to pay back for punjabi being killed in Balochistan or Sindh for example. Or they start movement to throw out foreigners out of punjab and so on. If this catch on then in 20 years there will be no 20th generation kashmiri or 30th generation pathan in Punjab, all will become punjabis like Baloch in Sindh have become sindhis.

The punjabi nationalists already talk about 1947 like event to get rid of 5th columnists in Punjab and break up of Pakistan.

 

[Edevelop]

At the moment the nationalism you describe exist on small scale and that is dangerous trend. Right now its on social media but who knows in 20 years when punjabis start to pay back for punjabi being killed in Balochistan or Sindh for example. Or they start movement to throw out foreigners out of punjab and so on. If this catch on then in 20 years there will be no 20th generation kashmiri or 30th generation pathan in Punjab, all will become punjabis like Baloch in Sindh have become sindhis.

The punjabi nationalists already talk about 1947 like event to get rid of 5th columnists in Punjab and break up of Pakistan.

Social media doesn't represent everyone. Besides how many people in Pakistan can read and write? Last time I checked the literacy rate was hovering around 55% and of that percentage not everyone uses social media or has access to internet. So I would say let the trolls do what they do because majority of people have other everyday issues. As for myself, no, I'm not suggesting any sort of nationalism, at least not on political level. I'm pretty clear politics should be separated from culture. Politics has become as addictive to people as heroin. The basic norms of society our religion has taught us and cultural traditions that have continued for decades defines who we are.

 

[waz]

What sort of Kashmiri, Mirpuri? No offence but they are not Kashmiris but Pahari Punjabis. You guys in the U.K mostly belong from there and should be proud of your ethnicity and language. A Kashmiri is one who either speaks the language, is from the valley, and or has blood of brahmin caste. We Kashmiris also identify each other the way we look and we always find family connection because there is a saying we come from the same nani. Our traditions and values are completely different from Punjabis.

Agreed. Our traditions differ and I have always maintained that. I'm proud to be from a people who fought the Sikh empire, fought the British when they came and finally finished off the Dogras from our lands.
We are a martial folk who are very distinct from the ethnic Kashmiris.