Will The US Embarrass The Indians

[Haris Ali2140]

It didn't...the Pentagon chose the typical cautious approach of neither confirming nor denying. They said "they are not aware of any such count". This is not a denial of the count.
@Jackdaws

As far as I know The Pentagon didn't release any statement either accepting or rejecting the count. Only an Indian newspaper released a report without saying the saying the name of the spokesperson of the pentagon which only other Indian newspapers reported.

 

[PradoTLC]

The same US which denied it has ever done a count?

quoted from an indian media.. and all it said was they were "unaware".. which even a fool knows US tracks all our F-16s and does have regular counts.

now according to your self serving and twisted logic US is "sensitive" to embarrass to show a F-16 shot by IAF but not an Israeli F-16 shot down by hamas?..

Michael Kluger accurate assess the situation.. there no shortage of enemies on capital hill that would gleefully love to embarrass the Pakistanis.

the truth is there was no F-16 shot down all the missiles were accounted on Mig-21 and PAF has invited foriegn experts to confirm.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

@Cookie Monster

yes, the report of US department of defence stating that they were not aware of any F-16 count came from Hindustan Times. That is because the query was made by HT only and no other publication.

Anyway, I don't count F-16 as a kill. There is not sufficient proof for that. Similarly, there is absolutely no proof of a Su-30 being downed as well.

The only fighter downed that day was a Mig 21. That's all we know for now.

 

[IndianGuy_]

Only the indian version seems wrong...

no body has bought the indian story except indians them selves... indians did too much lying

> Surgical strike 1.0 & 2.0: Busted
> F-16 engine scam : Busted
> 23 min in Pakistan airspace : busted
> Mi-17 crashed due to "technical" problems: busted
> F-16s that was shot down was from Jordan : busted
> F-16 pilot name of absurd some retired dude story : busted
> F-16 count story source from a pentagon reporter again : busted



besides the proof is in the podding... India backed down .. not Pakistan . If you really did shoot down a Mig-21 you have nothing to worry about. Yet every thing we see proves with out doubt a major IAF asset fell out of the sky. from your PM statements to the fact you are scrambling to get better long range missiles, to an independent observer it proves with out doubt PAF owned IAF that day.




You backed down... usually a loser does that.

No body saw PAF backing down

jezzz.. you clowns were so confused you shot your own aircraft down.. you clearly didnt know what you were doing




they dont need to mention it. They know if PAF is making a claim it is probably true

IAF has long history of getting it;s arse kicked in war time and in peace. Indian pilots are not well rated.




correction they claimed 350 dead.. plus they were on Pakistan aerospace for 23+ minutes..

hahhahha

these indicks dont realise what clowns they are.

It's fun how you debate without facts and mere statements. But that's what Indians here believe too

India did surgical strike 1 and 2 and attained its objective. (don't ask proof, since you provided none)

India opened its airspace the very day Pakistan came and went back.

Pakistan despite its "WIN" on Feb 28 shut its air space for 6 months.

Pakistan is in FATF grey list and is hoping from support from China, Malaysia and Turkey to avoid going into blacklist.


Both sides could go on and on debating without actual facts. Truth is you live in your own reality, Indians live in their own. And both dismiss the other reality or else it will hurt the false ego created that "my military so superior, how can they be defeated, nah, we da best, we da baddest".

 

[Cookie Monster]

@Cookie Monster

yes, the report of US department of defence stating that they were not aware of any F-16 count came from Hindustan Times. That is because the query was made by HT only and no other publication.

Anyway, I don't count F-16 as a kill. There is not sufficient proof for that. Similarly, there is absolutely no proof of a Su-30 being downed as well.

The only fighter downed that day was a Mig 21. That's all we know for now.

I'm not trying to convince u that Su30 MKI was shot down.

The point I'm making is that a majority of Pak's claims are being corroborated by independent third party sources
...the same cannot be said for Indian claims.

Secondly no matter how much proof Pak provides showing that Indian claim of shooting an F16 is bogus...Indians invent excuses(no matter how bizarre). How then do u convince someone of something if their mind is already made up and they are so entrenched in their beliefs that even actual evidence is questioned?...reminds me of flat earthers and anti vaccers.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

It's fun how you debate without facts and mere statements. But that's what Indians here believe too

India did surgical strike 1 and 2 and attained its objective. (don't ask proof, since you provided none)

India opened its airspace the very day Pakistan came and went back.

Pakistan despite its "WIN" on Feb 28 shut its air space for 6 months.

Pakistan is in FATF grey list and is hoping from support from China, Malaysia and Turkey to avoid going into blacklist.


Both sides could go on and on debating without actual facts. Truth is you live in your own reality, Indians live in their own. And both dismiss the other reality or else it will hurt the false ego created that "my military so superior, how can they be defeated, nah, we da best, we da baddest".

We provided proof for our strikes!!!

Closing air space was to prevent any civilian casualities as IAF was shooting down its own assets you have to be careful.

 

[Cookie Monster]

It's fun how you debate without facts and mere statements. But that's what Indians here believe too

India did surgical strike 1 and 2 and attained its objective. (don't ask proof, since you provided none)

India opened its airspace the very day Pakistan came and went back.

Pakistan despite its "WIN" on Feb 28 shut its air space for 6 months.

Pakistan is in FATF grey list and is hoping from support from China, Malaysia and Turkey to avoid going into blacklist.


Both sides could go on and on debating without actual facts. Truth is you live in your own reality, Indians live in their own. And both dismiss the other reality or else it will hurt the false ego created that "my military so superior, how can they be defeated, nah, we da best, we da baddest".

There was plenty of proof provided numerous times. If u want a brief refresher still...read my post 75 for the proof u r asking for.

There's no "alternative facts" and make believe fairy worlds where u can ride ur unicorn just bcuz u "believe"...there's only the reality and facts. Pak has provided evidence for those facts and many third party sources have confirmed that to be the same...which is more than what u can say for ur side.

As for air space closing or opening...what exactly does that prove? Countries don't win or lose skirmishes or wars by measuring the days their airspace was open or closed...they win those by blowing the enemy to pieces...and we all know who won in that.

As for FATF blacklist/greylist...again that's not how wars are won. Stick to topic instead of trying to change the subject bcuz u can't prove ur bogus claims.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

I'm not trying to convince u that Su30 MKI was shot down.

The point I'm making is that a majority of Pak's claims are being corroborated by independent third party sources
...the same cannot be said for Indian claims.

Secondly no matter how much proof Pak provides showing that Indian claim of shooting an F16 is bogus...Indians invent excuses(no matter how bizarre). How then do u convince someone of something if their mind is already made up and they are so entrenched in their beliefs that even actual evidence is questioned?...reminds me of flat earthers and anti vaccers.

Hardcore nationalists will believe whatever claim their government makes. You can't convince them otherwise even with reason. So quit trying. You should only bother about what neutral parties think.

However, the Su-30 claim of Pakistan has not been corroborated by any neutral source. Still, most Pakistanis believe that a Su-30 was downed. But, I only care about the fact that neutral parties have not only not corroborated the claim, but they mostly don't even mention it while discussing Feb 27 dogfight.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Hardcore nationalists will believe whatever claim their government makes. You can't convince them otherwise even with reason. So quit trying. You should only bother about what neutral parties think.

Im not trying to convince them. The reason for my long post(adding nothing new) and only pointing out the previously posted evidence was to show that "we've done our part repeatedly...it is u guys who remain unconvinced".
...I'm pointing out that it's a hopeless case...and those same Indians then should stop asking Pak/Pakistanis for proof bcuz it's a waste of time. They should believe whatever they wanna believe and move along instead of commenting here trying to peddle their narrative which has yet to be corroborated by any third party source.

However, the Su-30 claim of Pakistan has not been corroborated by any neutral source. Still, most Pakistanis believe that a Su-30 was downed. But, I only care about the fact that neutral parties have not only not corroborated the claim, but they mostly don't even mention it while discussing Feb 27 dogfight.

Good for u...that makes one Indian I've come across so far who isn't blindly believing the F16 downing story.

I keep seeing Indians here saying "u stick to ur narrative and we'll stick to ours". That to me is the the same stupidity along the lines of flat earthers...
...and that's the reason I quoted u bcuz u said something along those lines...
at the very least u shouldn't condone the behavior of inventing ur own realities and call it out for what it is...sheer stupidity.

 

[PradoTLC]

It's fun how you debate without facts and mere statements. But that's what Indians here believe too



Both sides could go on and on debating without actual facts. Truth is you live in your own reality, Indians live in their own. And both dismiss the other reality or else it will hurt the false ego created that "my military so superior, how can they be defeated, nah, we da best, we da baddest".

**India did surgical strike 1 and 2 and attained its objective. (don't ask proof, since you provided none)**


Re: according to who?.. not one ounce of evidence provided.. Reueters pretty much busted your false story and Pakistan took an army journalists to the site of your "surgical strikes"..




***Pakistan despite its "WIN" on Feb 28 shut its air space for 6 months. ***

RE: Yes after your airlines went out of business and your constant begging to open up....


**Pakistan is in FATF grey list and is hoping from support from China, Malaysia and Turkey to avoid going into blacklist.**

RE: According your media we went on the black list.?.... Pakistan is going avoid blacklist bcos of the current government tough anti money laundering credentials....

support to the legitimate independent freedom fighters in Kashmir will continue regardless what india says


Pakistan on the other hand has been proven accurate

> Mig-21 shot down = check
> We told on day one you shot your own helo = check
> Accurate bombing of Indian facilities, clips disclosed by PAF = Check
> F-16 shot down?...really? ...all F-16s accounted for = Check
> Surgical strike busted by western media = check
> Su-30 shot: plenty of circumstantial evidence from PM modi statement to New missiles, india backing down etc PAF pilot testimony on live TV witness by military attache= check

to me India has lied shameless to the point i feel sorry for you lot.


90% of indians are idiots for a reason

Hardcore nationalists will believe whatever claim their government makes. You can't convince them otherwise even with reason. So quit trying. You should only bother about what neutral parties think.

However, the Su-30 claim of Pakistan has not been corroborated by any neutral source. Still, most Pakistanis believe that a Su-30 was downed. But, I only care about the fact that neutral parties have not only not corroborated the claim, but they mostly don't even mention it while discussing Feb 27 dogfight.

we believe bcos our pilot a CSS topgun says so...

 

[Jackdaws]

So now that he is in India...what's stopping him from publicly saying all the things India is claiming?
Ever since Abhinandan was returned...he hasn't publicly said he shot down the F16.


Again can u provide a similar report by a credible third party journalist for ur Su30MKI count? The point is that there's third parties confirming Pak's side of the story like F16 count, Indian strikes being unsuccessful in hitting their target, etc. I have yet to see anything from a credible third party source confirming Indian side of the story.


Pak said F16 wasnt shot down
---> Indians: Pakistan is lying

Abhinandan in Pak custody didn't say he shot down F16
---> Indians: Video was edited...he was told to read from a script...etc.

Pak released images of all the missiles on Abhinandan's Mig21 accounted for(therefore couldn't have shot the F16)
---> Indians: bought off of eBay, doctored image, etc.

A credible American journalist said all F16s are accounted for
---> Indians: dont believe it and I heard everything from things like China providing Pak with a mock up...to Pak tricking the US by changing the serial number of one of the F16s and having it counted twice

If u guys r going to invent excuses for any sort of proof presented whether by Pak or some non Pak source...then no matter how many times the truth comes out...ur mind is made up and no amount of evidence is going to change it.

Why not ask Abhinandan now that he is in India? He has been there a while...why hasn't he said on record that he shot down an F16?


It didn't...the Pentagon chose the typical cautious approach of neither confirming nor denying. They said "they are not aware of any such count". This is not a denial of the count.
Edit: More importantly this above account of an "unnamed pentagon spokesperson" saying that was only reported in Indian news sources...so it's questionable at best.
@Jackdaws

You are saying the video isn't edited?

 

[PradoTLC]

@Cookie Monster

yes, the report of US department of defence stating that they were not aware of any F-16 count came from Hindustan Times. That is because the query was made by HT only and no other publication.

Anyway, I don't count F-16 as a kill. There is not sufficient proof for that. Similarly, there is absolutely no proof of a Su-30 being downed as well.

The only fighter downed that day was a Mig 21. That's all we know for now.

hey.. at least you shot down a Mi-17

so half a point for IAF?

BTW... what no body talks is about the remaining 24 planes as part of the strike package..

the IAF couldnt shoot down even a single one?.. not even a mirage V ????

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

hey.. at least you shot down a Mi-17

so half a point for IAF?

BTW... what no body talks is about the remaining 24 planes as part of the strike package..

the IAF couldnt shoot down even a single one?.. not even a mirage V ????

What is your point man ?

Yes India lost a Mig 21 that day and shot down it's own copter. And yes, we were not able to down a single fighter jet of PAF.

It can be attributed to the IAF being caught by surprise and not being prepared for the dogfight and thus being outnumbered by PAF during the dogfight. It was a show of incompetence by the IAF on the said day. It was also a needed wake up call for the IAF which I believe came at a low price for them.

**India did surgical strike 1 and 2 and attained its objective. (don't ask proof, since you provided none)**


Re: according to who?.. not one ounce evidence provided.. Rueters pretty much busted your false story and Pakistan took journalists to the site of your "strikes"




***Pakistan despite its "WIN" on Feb 28 shut its air space for 6 months. ***

RE: Yes after your airlines went out of business and your constant begging to open up....


**Pakistan is in FATF grey list and is hoping from support from China, Malaysia and Turkey to avoid going into blacklist.**

RE: According your media we went on the black list.?.... Pakistan is going avoid blacklist bcos of the current government tough anti money laundering credentials.. support to the legitimate independent freedom fighters in Kashmir will continue regardless what india says


Pakistan on the other hand has been proven accurate

> Mig-21 shot down = check
> We told on day one you shot your own helo = check
> Accurate bombing of Indian facilities, clips disclosed by PAF = Check
> F-16 shot down?...all F-16s accounted for = Check
> Surgical strike busted by western media = check
> Su-30 shot: plenty of circumstantial evidence from PM modi statement to New missiles, india backing down etc PAF pilot testimony on live TV witness by military attache= check

to me India has lied shameless to the point i feel sorry for you lot.


90% of indians are idiots for a reason




we believe bcos our pilot a CSS topgun says so...

If claims were taken as proofs then why not. We will also believe that an F 16 was downed. To hell with proof. But, thankfully that's not how these things work. You are still free to believe what you want.

 

[PradoTLC]

What is your point man ?

Yes India lost a Mig 21 that day and shot down it's own copter. And yes, we were not able to down a single fighter jet of PAF.

It can be attributed to the IAF being caught by surprise and not being prepared for the dogfight and thus being outnumbered by PAF during the dogfight. It was a show of incompetence by the IAF on the said day. It was also a needed wake up call for the IAF which I believe came at a low price for them.

surprise?..

so after you bombed our trees you think we wont react?.. when we clearly told you we would.

So IAF is deluded also ....


interestingly we asked PAF pilots how they assessed IAF on 27 Feb. They state, IAF conducted incredible tactical errors entering a combat zone with degraded communications and situational awareness... it was an ambush where a more able pilots would have simply withdrawn rather than force a bad position.

PAF & PLAAF did a similar exercise in China where Su-27s and JF-17 and Mirage Vs and AWAC were pitting in a some what similar theme... IAF needs to watch PDF....

 

[Windjammer]

Thanks. You are showing me a video with an actual edit cut which doesn't let him complete what he is saying?

A video that was published by the most widely read English Daily in UK is not up to Indian standards.
Abhinandan clearly says that he was TRYING to look for a target, not that he found any targets or was chasing any.
However, the IAF pilot was released within 48 hours, it's been almost 8 months and he's back flying.
One would expect for him to be compelled to release his statement making the F-16 claim.....perhaps you should focus on that.