Will East Asia ever be integrated?

[empirefighter]

Very difficult but possible.
China，it is not difficult，no offence，but Korea ，Japan and Vietnam are similar to one of our provinces considered their population and territory，that means we can accept the union .
Korea，I personlly think Korea donot refuse to join us and China-Korea union is more possible.reasons：1.there is no Korea king anymore. 2.we have good relations in history and Korea donot hate us from deep heart.3.Korea is our affilimated country for thousands of years and share the same family name ，culture，race with us，they donot expel us. now，they richer than us，so they are a little aggorant，but when time passed，Korea will be the first union country with China in East Asia.
Japan，it is very hard. Reasons：1.there is still Japanese king. 2.although China and Korea culture is the closest to Japan in this world，but Japanese culture is still different from us，not as close as China-Korea culture.3.the history problem， Japan hurt China and Korea too deep in WW2，Japan politicians should really think about this for the Japan future，hiding and strong attitude is not responsible solution，it is impossible for China and Korea to smile and let it go. The best time for Japan apolozied and repaid is 1980th，at that time we were in good relation and we were very poor，if Japan apolozied from true heart and helped our economy ，China would forgive this，but Japan missed the time and judged China would failed in economy，at last China would fall into 7 parts，so according to the funny judgement，Japan decided to wait for us failing and ban the hi-techonology exporting to us. Japan is too short sighted，Japan study us too much but Japan still know little about the real China， It is the doomed destiny，but still wish East Asia have happy ending.
Vietnam，very hard，Vietnam ambition is in SE Asia，they dream to unite Laos and Cambodian，they never want to get close to us，so Vietnam will try all ways to kick off China influence. Vietnam and Korea in fact are very similiar with culture and history for Chinese，and they use the same family name as Chinese，but their attitudes towards China is very different，Korea get close to every Chinese dynasty，Vietnam rebel every Chinese dynasty until today，so we fought much more wars with Vietnam than Korea in history，and we had much better relation with Korea than Vietnam in history.
Conclusion：Korea in，Japan wait，Vietnam out. There is the East Asia Future.

The Chinese are too smart to let this happen as long as the US still has its puppets playing foul in East Asia. In other words, no integration until the US got kicked out.

Just take a look at Europe gives the Chinese a picture what a chaos the US can create. The whole EU has been undermined with moles and treacherous whores serving the interest of the US.

EU problem is Germany and France are too small compared to USA，East Asia is different ，but USA stays here and no union，if USA gone，it cannot interfere with the union easily since China is the abosulute core.

 

[Taj_91]

It can be done but there needs to be immense political capital, and agreement in public.
The biggest thing is that there should be trust.

Japan's problem is that it holds the card to the Great East Asian reckoning. You will have to apologize guys, or else Korea and China will always look for revenge, and squaring off.

China will have to give up its ambition to form an East Asian hegemony, and start living with its partners.

Korea will have to give up its almost militaristic sense of self-identity. It will have to be assured that it won't cease to exist, if it stops playing up its difference to China and Japan.

The Japanese will give a formal apology at the right time, they are just passing their time right now. As for public perception, CPC is there to take care of that

China would forgive this，but Japan missed the time and judged China would failed in economy，at last China would fall into 7 parts，.

How come 7 parts? Please explain

 

[Lux de Veritas]

There will be an East Asia Union and I support it.

 

[empirefighter]

The Japanese will give a formal apology at the right time, they are just passing their time right now. As for public perception, CPC is there to take care of that


How come 7 parts? Please explain

just give a formal apology is not so easy. You donot understand,if so easy,Japan had done that long long ago. Japan know that,we are East Asia not west countries.
7parts is a fantasy,it is too stupid dream for Japan, showing them know nothing about us,you can ignore them. East Aisa just like South Asian,toally mess relation.

 

[Taj_91]

just give a formal apology is not so easy. You donot understand,if so easy,Japan had done that long long ago. Japan know that,we are East Asia not west countries.
7parts is a fantasy,it is too stupid dream for Japan, showing them know nothing about us,you can ignore them. East Aisa just like South Asian,toally mess relation.

Of course, only apology won't suffice. But the Japanese will switch their sides to China and help the CPC to become the dominant power. They have huge Reserves and assets all over the world, if they side with CPC, USA will crumble. Don't you think that would be a huge step, enough to overcome the past differences? (Whether or not CPC will back stab Japanese is another matter, heck even this scenario is all in the thin air. But still might come true )

And the 7 parts might be fantasy but what is it? Please explain.

 

[Audio]

In economic terms, yes. For example there is already an FTA between China and Korea, with Japan in participation in talks of a trilateral FTA.

There is a significant percent of the Diet that wish for further economic integration of Japan with China and Korea. The trick is balancing the relations with Washington.

I believe it can be done and Abe must be shrewd enough to maneuver around the stalks of hay, as the saying goes....

Idk, i don't really wanna get into this debate as my pointing out various obstacles will undoubtedly be perceived as jealousy, meddling etc etc....which it wouldn't i just like to play devil's advocate, which wouldn't be hard here....

But my opinion in short is that this more or less unlikely in the short and medium term. If i only stop at this:

If we analyze the chronology of Japanese and Chinese relations through the collective lens of history, it seems that there has always been an intra-regional yearning for Union.

There was a yearning to rule, not for a Union. The yearning to rule is still there, in some a bit more obvious than in others perhaps.

 

[j20blackdragon]

China's top priority is to gain control of the Asian continent and funnel the vast natural resources of the world's largest continent into the Chinese economy. This is the true purpose of the SCO, New Silk Road, and our relationship with Pakistan. Once we do this, China's existence will be secure for the next few centuries. A blockade of the Strait of Malacca is pointless if we have a massive network of road, rail, and pipelines stretching across Asia and channeling raw materials and energy into China.

So in my opinion, this is China's future:

Shanghai Cooperation Organisation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whether or not we form a 'union' with a peninsula (Korea) and an island (Japan) is not urgent.

 

[Aepsilons]

Idk, i don't really wanna get into this debate as my pointing out various obstacles will undoubtedly be perceived as jealousy, meddling etc etc....which it wouldn't i just like to play devil's advocate, which wouldn't be hard here....

But my opinion in short is that this more or less unlikely in the short and medium term. If i only stop at this:



There was a yearning to rule, not for a Union. The yearning to rule is still there, in some a bit more obvious than in others perhaps.

Hi, I don't mind if you go into detail with your points. I'd like to discourse with you.

just give a formal apology is not so easy. You donot understand,if so easy,Japan had done that long long ago. Japan know that,we are East Asia not west countries.
7parts is a fantasy,it is too stupid dream for Japan, showing them know nothing about us,you can ignore them. East Aisa just like South Asian,toally mess relation.

Hi,

There was no time after the war that Japan predicted in China's dismemberment into "7 parts" so I don't know where this intellectually falsity emerged from. History has shown that one of the first investors of China early on was no other than Japan.

In fact , years prior to Masayoshi's leadership as Premier, Japan had proposed for Sino-Japanese collaborative framework and believed in security apparatus with Beijing as per Japan's omnidirectionality strategy during the Cold War.

In fact, long before Japan aligned with the United States in regards to security by the early 1980s, Tokyo had planned to form a comprehensive alliance system with Beijing. The change was due to the Soviet expansionist threat that led to about face in policy.

Free trade between South Korea and China already done, it will probably get done with Japan soon.

Economic done.

In terms of EU's policy making, also possible.

However, if you mean what I think you mean. No.

Think beyond money, Genesis. I'm referring to the complete Union of East Asia.

Money is given. But I'm referring to the political and social advancement that can be see in the unification of Japan, China, Korea and Taiwan.

Once this happens Northeast Asia shall be the center of the world in --- all things. The West would have then been negated. And domination of the world would be an inevitability.

 

[Genesis]

Think beyond money, Genesis. I'm referring to the complete Union of East Asia.

Money is given. But I'm referring to the political and social advancement that can be see in the unification of Japan, China, Korea and Taiwan.

Once this happens Northeast Asia shall be the center of the world in --- all things. The West would have then been negated. And domination of the world would be an inevitability.

oh I know what you were referring to.

I like to reference a move quote here.

"you really should be glad about this carl, me working for you, you end up being my bitch."

I'm fond of Japan, nothing personal, just the truth.

 

[DarkElf]

The Union I speak of in East Asia will be total in its aspect. Politically the system of governance will be reevaluated and compromise that will take into consideration the transparency in Japan and Korea , yet will take into account the efficiency of China's. Language would be the encouraging of learning all three dialects ; Mandarin, Nihonggo, and Hanggul. The Chinese character of solidarity, the Japaneae character of Kaizen (continuous perfection) and the Korean character of "Palli- Palli" (speed and excellence) will be fused in a unified East Asia. The Union would ultimately transform the region as a collectivist , dynamic state that would evolve its own political system based in meritocracy and proven theories.

And unlike the individuality based Europe, East Asia has higher chance of realizing complete and total Union due to our Confucian culture as well as the racial homogeneity of said region.

In your scenario, basically it's game over for Korea and Japan, as separate ethnic with their own living language and culture (especially Japan royalty). Also, I doubt the Chinese will accept Japan and Korea as their President/PM.

Just look what happens to Manchu or some of the Chinese local dialect. Even if China Government has no ill will, just by their sheer population number, sooner or later mandarin will replace both languages. Similar to what happen in Taiwan, in Taipei, it's getting harder to hear someone speak Hakka in the street.

 

[tranquilium]

Like EU with free travel across the border? At least another century or possibly never.

Unless South Korea and Japan ready to give up their 'independence' and become just another rich province.

Human history tends to go from small separated society to larger, more integrated ones. There maybe short term regresses, but the overall trend is smaller countries disappearing and bigger countries appearing. The reason is rather simple, larger and more integrated nations are simply stronger and more competitive than smaller ones.

Will East Asia integrate over the next decades? Maybe not. What about the next century? Next Millennium? Human history is fairly long. Geopolitical shifts are typically measured in centuries.

 

[DarkElf]

Human history tends to go from small separated society to larger, more integrated ones. There maybe short term regresses, but the overall trend is smaller countries disappearing and bigger countries appearing. The reason is rather simple, larger and more integrated nations are simply stronger and more competitive than smaller ones.

Will East Asia integrate over the next decades? Maybe not. What about the next century? Next Millennium? Human history is fairly long. Geopolitical shifts are typically measured in centuries.

Stronger and powerful yes, but for the people itself, it's better to have more receptive local government than some far away Emperor who doesn't care about what happen in the neighbourhood.

I think the odd for stronger encompassing World Government is bigger than the East Asian Union.

 

[empirefighter]

Of course, only apology won't suffice. But the Japanese will switch their sides to China and help the CPC to become the dominant power. They have huge Reserves and assets all over the world, if they side with CPC, USA will crumble. Don't you think that would be a huge step, enough to overcome the past differences? (Whether or not CPC will back stab Japanese is another matter, heck even this scenario is all in the thin air. But still might come true )

And the 7 parts might be fantasy but what is it? Please explain.

7parts means 7 countries，includind Inner Mogolia state ，Tibet state，and so on.
No，you still donot understand，Japan will not side with ANYONE，now it seems to side with USA，it is the result of WW2 not his own choice.As Nihonjin1051 said，Japan is a much older country even compared to the west ，Japan is always very ambitious and proud even in acient time when it was very poor，he never obey anyone from true heart. I donot know what the future is，but it is very hard for China and Korea to trust Japan from true heart，especially Japan still has his own king，that means Japan just care about his own king，Japanese king has much more influence than UK queen in their own countries. Japan will go forward by himself ，it may side with us but the chance is very little.
We China can become dominant power of East Asia without Japan help as we did for thousands of years.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

All of these are parameters that can be assessed in the proper time , as it is always the case for Easr Asia.

When I say Union, I don't mean a Union in the sense of the EU where member states still retain their boundaries and cultural individuality. If you go to Poland, for example and travel through Warsaw, Gdansk, or Kraków , the culture is Polish , the political system in said country is Polish. The "Euro" identity is but superficial.

The Union I speak of in East Asia will be total in its aspect. Politically the system of governance will be reevaluated and compromise that will take into consideration the transparency in Japan and Korea , yet will take into account the efficiency of China's. Language would be the encouraging of learning all three dialects ; Mandarin, Nihonggo, and Hanggul. The Chinese character of solidarity, the Japaneae character of Kaizen (continuous perfection) and the Korean character of "Palli- Palli" (speed and excellence) will be fused in a unified East Asia. The Union would ultimately transform the region as a collectivist , dynamic state that would evolve its own political system based in meritocracy and proven theories.

And unlike the individuality based Europe, East Asia has higher chance of realizing complete and total Union due to our Confucian culture as well as the racial homogeneity of said region.

Why we want to learn Nihonggi abd Hanggul when Mandarin is already a standard dialect than unify all dialects (Cantonese, Hokkien, Tewchiew, Hakka, Hainam...and many other chinese dialects) in China, if Japaneses are sincere to have an integrated Asia, you should as adopt also Mandarin as your official international communication dialect as the ancient time when you your ancestors used Kanji to communicate with Koreans & Chinese people, Chinese characters was the official communication tool in ancient East Asia that include China, Korea, Japan and Vietnam...and it should stay the way it is.

7parts means 7 countries，includind Inner Mogolia state ，Tibet state，and so on.
No，you still donot understand，Japan will not side with ANYONE，now it seems to side with USA，it is the result of WW2 not his own choice.As Nihonjin1051 said，Japan is a much older country even compared to the west ，Japan is always very ambitious and proud even in acient time when it was very poor，he never obey anyone from true heart. I donot know what the future is，but it is very hard for China and Korea to trust Japan from true heart，especially Japan still has his own king，that means Japan just care about his own king，Japanese king has much more influence than UK queen in their own countries. Japan will go forward by himself ，it may side with us but the chance is very little.
We China can become dominant power of East Asia without Japan help as we did for thousands of years.

And you think Japan's emperor is Japanese?

Japan guards the emperors' secrets - World - News - The Independent

 

[empirefighter]

Hi, I don't mind if you go into detail with your points. I'd like to discourse with you.



Hi,

There was no time after the war that Japan predicted in China's dismemberment into "7 parts" so I don't know where this intellectually falsity emerged from. History has shown that one of the first investors of China early on was no other than Japan.

In fact , years prior to Masayoshi's leadership as Premier, Japan had proposed for Sino-Japanese collaborative framework and believed in security apparatus with Beijing as per Japan's omnidirectionality strategy during the Cold War.

In fact, long before Japan aligned with the United States in regards to security by the early 1980s, Tokyo had planned to form a comprehensive alliance system with Beijing. The change was due to the Soviet expansionist threat that led to about face .

Thanks for your discussion，I always think you are good person personally. WW2 is very sad for our relation indeed.
Japan did have such 7 parts plan but it didnot have enough power to do that，unlike Korea and Vietnam，Japan wanted to replace us as the king of East Asia for thousand of years，Japan tried many times and failed in history，WW2 was the most successful try but failed again.
WW2 unlike the past war，Japan hurt us too much and we have not revenge it since USA protect Japan for using it to against us，it is hard for Japan to say formal sorry.1.Japan think they are innocent，they fought for their own national interest in WW2，the army are heroes and they donot think they are wrong. Althought I am Chinese，but I can understand it.成者为王，败者为寇。2.japan are happy to become one of the west，they feel ashamed to be one of Asia.脱亚入欧。this is weird from Chinese view，we always are proud to be Asias. 3.it may refer to some territory and money repay problem after official apology.
I donot know how to solve this but without solving this，the relation between Japan and China，Korea cannot be good.To be honest，we are not urgent to solve this problem，in our view，for Japan national interest，Japan should solve this ASAP，after all ，you cannot 脱亚入欧 forever，you have to come back to this family and face your brothers in the near future.