Why Waziristan cannot be conquered

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Why Britons walked warily in Waziristan

 

[Secur]

this war will destroy USA soon

When would that happen so I can prepare for it ?

 

[anonymus]

they were their sir and they defeated British and USSR and now USA

Last Anglo-Afghan war was ended in 1842. British Empire lasted till 1947. How come they were responsible for Fall of British.

Also when did they defeated Alexander. It never happened and is a myth taught in your Madrassa.

And cut this Afghanistan is graveyard of Empire Baldrash. Afghan has been conqured many time and has been a part of numerous Empires before which were centered in Iran, India or Central asia with only Kushans being a empire whose bulk lied in Afghania.

It was part of Darius's Persia, Alexander's Greek Empire Part of Indian empire First as a part of Mauryan Empire for close to 200 years than Kushans then Saka than Mongol then Mughals then Safavaids. Independent afghanistan is recent phenomenon of history that came onto existence due to unwillingness of both Czars and British to conquer it, partly because it was of no value to them.

@Imran Khan. Bhai bold wale part ke baare mein aapka kya khayal hai.

 

[Imran Khan]

@Imran Khan. Bhai bold wale part ke baare mein aapka kya khayal hai.

let them live in their lala land and keep them dying . wazerstan is a stone age place same as afghanistan dear . make open roads full infustructure like any modern country and open malls collages shops universities business hubs factories and you will see wazerstan like any otherplace of earth . the problem is govs bomb them kill them and they throw them in dustbin . the money US spend on WOT or pak in FATA we can make them like modern world civilized world . if islamabad was made in FATA today wazerstan was one of the modern places in pakistan . yes they were parts of empires and because of frontier they were ignored too long time its not mean they were super but no one was interested to capture them and waste lives . till today situation is same very simple logic its deep sh1tty today so no one can hold that sH!t

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Last Anglo-Afghan war was ended in 1842. British Empire lasted till 1947. How come they were responsible for Fall of British.

Also when did they defeated Alexander. It never happened and is a myth taught in your Madrassa.

And cut this Afghanistan is graveyard of Empire Baldrash. Afghan has been conqured many time and has been a part of numerous Empires before which were centered in Iran, India or Central asia with only Kushans being a empire whose bulk lied in Afghania.

It was part of Darius's Persia, Alexander's Greek Empire Part of Indian empire First as a part of Mauryan Empire for close to 200 years than Kushans then Saka than Mongol then Mughals then Safavaids. Independent afghanistan is recent phenomenon of history that came onto existence due to unwillingness of both Czars and British to conquer it, partly because it was of no value to them.

@Imran Khan. Bhai bold wale part ke baare mein aapka kya khayal hai.

Last anglo-afghan war ended in 1842? Lol. This is the level of your general knowledge.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Lets hear what former CIA chief say about pashtuns.

The Pashtuns of Afghanistan : Alexander the Great also got in trouble here

WASHINGTON— There is a lake near Webster, Massachusetts called Chargoggaggoggmanchaugagoggchaubunagungamaug. Translated from the original Nipmuck, it lays down this thoughtful code for keeping the peace: "You fish on your side, I fish on my side, nobody fishes in the middle."

Halfway around the globe, there is a place called the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) of Pakistan, seven so-called tribal "agencies" along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan where about six million of the most independent humans on the planet live on 27,000 square kilometers of rugged and inhospitable terrain.

They are the Pashtuns, and they have lived on their lands without interruption or major migration for about 20,000 years. They know their neighborhood very well, and their men have been armed to the teeth since the first bow was strung. Their ancient code involves a commitment to hospitality, revenge and the honor of the tribe. They are invariably described as your "best friend or worst enemy." The Pashtuns' sense of territoriality bears some resemblance to the Nipmuck tribe of Massachusetts; when outsiders venture into the middle of their lands on fishing expeditions or to exert authority, very bad things happen.

In the 4th century B.C., Alexander the Great fell afoul of Pashtun tribesmen in today's Malakand Agency, where he took an arrow in the leg and almost lost his life. Two millennia later the founder of the Mogul empire, Babur, described the tribesmen of the area now known as Waziristan as unmanageable; his main complaint seemed to center on his inability to get them to pay their taxes by handing over their sheep, let alone stop to attacking his armies. A couple of hundred years later, in the middle of the 19th century, the British experienced disaster after disaster as they tried to bring the same Pashtun tribes to heel, particularly in the agencies of North and South Waziristan. In 1893, after half a century of jockeying for position with Imperial Russia in the "Great Game," the British administrator of the northwest of Queen Victoria's Indian Empire, Sir Mortimer Durand, demarcated the border between India — now Pakistan — and Afghanistan. The Durand line, as it is still known to foreigners — the Pashtuns call it "zero line" and completely ignore it — separated the tribes on both sides of the line into 26 agencies, each with its own laws and tribal councils. It was this area that became the buffer between the British and Russian Empires, an agreed-upon "middle of the lake." The tribes were then left mostly to themselves for about 80 years.

The Soviet adventure in Afghanistan began on a snowy Christmas Eve in 1979, and took a decade to cycle through, ending in exactly the same fashion as all the other foreign enterprises in that land — with failure. It was in the territories to the west of zero line, in the lands of the Wazirs, the Mahsuds, and the Ahmadzais, that the Soviets repeatedly failed in their attempts to establish their authority. They took some of their heaviest casualties not many kilometers to the west of South Waziristan and Wana Fort where the current drama now seems to be winding down after two confused weeks.

This time it is the Pakistani Army and its local levies, the paramilitary Frontier Corps, who have ventured into South Waziristan. To the west of zero line, American forces lie in wait for the quarry to be driven into their gun sights. The Pakistani operation has been described as an attempt to route an enemy alternately depicted as Islamic militants, foreign terrorists, or "high value" Al Qaeda fighters. Early in the operation it was suggested that Al Qaeda's second-in-command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, was cornered near Wana Fort. Now the word in Pakistan is that Tahir Yaldashev, leader of the radical Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, "may" have been there at the time of the Pakistani assault, but later escaped, possibly wounded.

As the CIA officer overseeing the final years of the war against the Soviet occupiers of Afghanistan, I served as a 20th century American version of the British East India Company political agent and quartermaster to these same Waziri Ahmadzai tribesmen as they stymied all Soviet efforts to "exert a little authority." Their leader then was Jalaluddin Haqqani, a man of uncommon personal courage, and a deeply nuanced understanding of guerilla tactics. Though his current whereabouts are unknown — some say he died of wounds from a U.S. air attack — Haqqani has transitioned from America's best friend during the anti-Soviet war to its worst enemy in the current undertaking in Afghanistan. He is at the top of the list of America's most wanted, and it is his spirit and the Pashtun code of honor that continue to drive the Ahmadzai tribesmen against whom both the Pakistani Army and American forces are lined up.

It will be a tough and unrewarding slog. Like most of the great confrontations launched by outsiders in Waziristan over the last 2,000 years, this one will probably end in ambiguity. There have already been claims of "mission accomplished" by the Pakistani army and the Frontier Corps — after all, they lost up to 60 dead — but there will likely be nothing concrete to point to, aside from claims of having destroyed a militant sanctuary. The much ballyhooed "high value targets" we and our Pakistani allies expected to kill or capture will probably remain unknown and unresolved, and the American Operation "Mountain Storm" across zero line in Afghanistan will probably wind down with an equal lack of clarity. Already there seems to be a sense of relief that everyone will quietly go back to fishing on their sides of the lake.

That's the way it's always been in those rugged hills.

*

Milt Bearden was CIA chief in Pakistan from 1986 until the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan in 1989. He is the co-author with James Risen of "The Main Enemy: The Inside Story of the CIA's Final Showdown with the KGB."
The Pashtuns of Afghanistan - Alexander the Great also got in trouble here - NYTimes.com

@Zarvan, @anonymus, @Secur, @Safriz, @pakdefender

 

[INDIC]

Last anglo-afghan war ended in 1842? Lol. This is the level of your general knowledge.

Although British faced huge losses at the hands of Pashtuns but they succeeded in controlling Pashtuns dominates areas using divide and rule into Afghanistan, FATA, NWFP and British Balochistan.

 

[Secur]

let them live in their lala land and keep them dying . wazerstan is a stone age place same as afghanistan dear .

Mate , I do not understand the rejoicing over the fact that superpowers merely captured and abandoned Afghanistan at will when Kabul was conquered at times by foreign forces , how does that change the fact that they are still in ruins and remain the same old Afghanistan which Alexander the Great saw in his time back then ? I mean what development has taken place in the country seeing its history . Have the Afghans taken over the US and Russia in economic prosperity and human development index ? This pride on drugs and guns and illiteracy and death is beyond me to say the least . I see only a land which reminds me of ancient times , nothing of significance , nothing at all .

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

We are on military forum and we are discussing military history, analysis and character, not HDI. @Secur

Why Pakistan is spending 80% of its budget on army despite being a third world country?....why JF-thunders and agusta submarines when people are starving in cholistan and balochistan? Why rejoicing over 1965 war when pakistan is among top 10 failed states?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Lets hear what former CIA chief say about pashtuns.

The Pashtuns of Afghanistan : Alexander the Great also got in trouble here

WASHINGTON— There is a lake near Webster, Massachusetts called Chargoggaggoggmanchaugagoggchaubunagungamaug. Translated from the original Nipmuck, it lays down this thoughtful code for keeping the peace: "You fish on your side, I fish on my side, nobody fishes in the middle."

Halfway around the globe, there is a place called the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) of Pakistan, seven so-called tribal "agencies" along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan where about six million of the most independent humans on the planet live on 27,000 square kilometers of rugged and inhospitable terrain.

They are the Pashtuns, and they have lived on their lands without interruption or major migration for about 20,000 years. They know their neighborhood very well, and their men have been armed to the teeth since the first bow was strung. Their ancient code involves a commitment to hospitality, revenge and the honor of the tribe. They are invariably described as your "best friend or worst enemy." The Pashtuns' sense of territoriality bears some resemblance to the Nipmuck tribe of Massachusetts; when outsiders venture into the middle of their lands on fishing expeditions or to exert authority, very bad things happen.

In the 4th century B.C., Alexander the Great fell afoul of Pashtun tribesmen in today's Malakand Agency, where he took an arrow in the leg and almost lost his life. Two millennia later the founder of the Mogul empire, Babur, described the tribesmen of the area now known as Waziristan as unmanageable; his main complaint seemed to center on his inability to get them to pay their taxes by handing over their sheep, let alone stop to attacking his armies. A couple of hundred years later, in the middle of the 19th century, the British experienced disaster after disaster as they tried to bring the same Pashtun tribes to heel, particularly in the agencies of North and South Waziristan. In 1893, after half a century of jockeying for position with Imperial Russia in the "Great Game," the British administrator of the northwest of Queen Victoria's Indian Empire, Sir Mortimer Durand, demarcated the border between India — now Pakistan — and Afghanistan. The Durand line, as it is still known to foreigners — the Pashtuns call it "zero line" and completely ignore it — separated the tribes on both sides of the line into 26 agencies, each with its own laws and tribal councils. It was this area that became the buffer between the British and Russian Empires, an agreed-upon "middle of the lake." The tribes were then left mostly to themselves for about 80 years.

The Soviet adventure in Afghanistan began on a snowy Christmas Eve in 1979, and took a decade to cycle through, ending in exactly the same fashion as all the other foreign enterprises in that land — with failure. It was in the territories to the west of zero line, in the lands of the Wazirs, the Mahsuds, and the Ahmadzais, that the Soviets repeatedly failed in their attempts to establish their authority. They took some of their heaviest casualties not many kilometers to the west of South Waziristan and Wana Fort where the current drama now seems to be winding down after two confused weeks.

This time it is the Pakistani Army and its local levies, the paramilitary Frontier Corps, who have ventured into South Waziristan. To the west of zero line, American forces lie in wait for the quarry to be driven into their gun sights. The Pakistani operation has been described as an attempt to route an enemy alternately depicted as Islamic militants, foreign terrorists, or "high value" Al Qaeda fighters. Early in the operation it was suggested that Al Qaeda's second-in-command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, was cornered near Wana Fort. Now the word in Pakistan is that Tahir Yaldashev, leader of the radical Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, "may" have been there at the time of the Pakistani assault, but later escaped, possibly wounded.

As the CIA officer overseeing the final years of the war against the Soviet occupiers of Afghanistan, I served as a 20th century American version of the British East India Company political agent and quartermaster to these same Waziri Ahmadzai tribesmen as they stymied all Soviet efforts to "exert a little authority." Their leader then was Jalaluddin Haqqani, a man of uncommon personal courage, and a deeply nuanced understanding of guerilla tactics. Though his current whereabouts are unknown — some say he died of wounds from a U.S. air attack — Haqqani has transitioned from America's best friend during the anti-Soviet war to its worst enemy in the current undertaking in Afghanistan. He is at the top of the list of America's most wanted, and it is his spirit and the Pashtun code of honor that continue to drive the Ahmadzai tribesmen against whom both the Pakistani Army and American forces are lined up.

It will be a tough and unrewarding slog. Like most of the great confrontations launched by outsiders in Waziristan over the last 2,000 years, this one will probably end in ambiguity. There have already been claims of "mission accomplished" by the Pakistani army and the Frontier Corps — after all, they lost up to 60 dead — but there will likely be nothing concrete to point to, aside from claims of having destroyed a militant sanctuary. The much ballyhooed "high value targets" we and our Pakistani allies expected to kill or capture will probably remain unknown and unresolved, and the American Operation "Mountain Storm" across zero line in Afghanistan will probably wind down with an equal lack of clarity. Already there seems to be a sense of relief that everyone will quietly go back to fishing on their sides of the lake.

That's the way it's always been in those rugged hills.

*

Milt Bearden was CIA chief in Pakistan from 1986 until the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan in 1989. He is the co-author with James Risen of "The Main Enemy: The Inside Story of the CIA's Final Showdown with the KGB."
The Pashtuns of Afghanistan - Alexander the Great also got in trouble here - NYTimes.com

@Zarvan, @anonymus, @Secur, @Safriz, @pakdefender

Didnt alexander marry an afghan princess... rest the fact tht he also conquered afghanistan.. and he almost died in punjab? somesay tht it was tht arrow or spear tht took his life as it turned into an infection... well thts another story...

 

[Secur]

We are on military forum and we are discussing military history, analysis and character, not HDI. @Secur

Why Pakistan is spending 80% of its budget on army despite being a third world country?....why JF-thunders and agusta submarines when people are starving in cholistan and balochistan? Why rejoicing over 1965 war when pakistan is among top 10 failed states?

We are on military forum sure , but is it against the rules to discuss the economic condition of a country which is proud of something which hasn't benefited it ? I mean what exactly is there to be proud of , an uplift in the life of Afghans by these victories against some foreigners ?

Pakistan isn't spending anything even close to that amount , it spends 3.5 % of its Gross Domestic Product on military something necessary seeing the threat profile and the war we are fighting . Keep the " failed state " conspiracy theory with yourself , doesn't interest no one .

 

[Armstrong]

We are on military forum sure , but is it against the rules to discuss the economic condition of a country which is proud of something which hasn't benefited it ? I mean what exactly is there to be proud of , an uplift in the life of Afghans by these victories against some foreigners ?

Pakistan isn't spending anything even close to that amount , it spends 3.5 % of its Gross Domestic Product on military something necessary seeing the threat profile and the war we are fighting . Keep the " failed state " conspiracy theory with yourself , doesn't interest no one .

Oh Shut Up you.....eik Pashton larkii kou touuu court kar nahin sakaaa aur hameiiin insight into the Pashtuns deiii gaaa !

 

[Secur]

rest the fact tht he also conquered afghanistan..

Explain it to them

Oh Shut Up you.....eik Pashton larkii kou touuu court kar nahin sakaaa aur hameiiin insight into the Pashtuns deiii gaaa !

Who told you that ? I am making good progress on that front

 

[Imran Khan]

We are on military forum and we are discussing military history, analysis and character, not HDI. @Secur

Why Pakistan is spending 80% of its budget on army despite being a third world country?....why JF-thunders and agusta submarines when people are starving in cholistan and balochistan? Why rejoicing over 1965 war when pakistan is among top 10 failed states?

ITS 18 KID 18
80% its crazy man

 

[INDIC]

ITS 18 KID 18
80% its crazy man

Defence spending is more than 30%. Your graph is not showing the hidden allocation.