Why Waziristan cannot be conquered

[MST]

So Indian state will give flowers to those Indians who challenge the authority of state and take arms against them and kill their soldiers/civilians and attack on their naval/army headquarters

Naxalite

Its not like you are the only ones who have some problems in life.
But no matter what we don't use our Army/Airforce/Navy/Nukes on our own citizens.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Population of FATA is 6 million, while only few thousands are talibans...why you have so much hatred against tribals that you want to nuke women, childern, young , olds, every one living in FATA? Are they not your muslim countrymen? Does nuking muslims is allowed in islam? Does nuking 6 millions humans is allowed by humanity?

Do u see me advocating nukes or saying crap against tribals? if not the keep shut n get lost.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

So Indian state will give flowers to those Indians who challenge the authority of state and take arms against them and kill their soldiers/civilians and attack on their naval/army headquarters

Unlike Pakistan india has never used air force on kashmiri insurgents and indians do not talk about nuking their own territory, or any country.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Unlike Pakistan india has never used air force on kashmiri insurgents and indians do not talk about nuking their own territory, or any country.

IOK also doesnt border afghanistan... nor do the freedom fighters have access to all the ammunition and explosives and an open border to f. off after attacks... besides this is indias record:

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Naxalite

Its not like you are the only ones who have some problems in life.
But no matter what we don't use our Army/Airforce/Navy/Nukes on our own citizens.

Lol funny so army was not there in Kashmir ..do you need me to post some documentaries about what your army did with kashmiri people ?

Use your brain if pak have not used nukes for India then how logic is to think that they will be used against TTP who love to hide behind people and use them as human shields

 

[That Guy]

Why Waziristan cannot be conquered
by A. H. Amin
(Friday, February 13, 2004)

"Beware of despising the tribals. They brought both Muslim and non Muslim Emperors to grief whether it was Jahangir, Shah Jahan, Aurangzeb, Ranjit Singh or the British king."

Those who know the Pathans and their history will know exactly what is happening in Waziristan today and which Lashkar is doing what and for what reason. The tribal Pathans have traditionally been supreme fighters who defied the Mughal occupiers, the Sikh occupiers, the British occupiers and now the latest occupiers, i.e. the US coalition chasing the Pathans and Muslims of various castes and creeds motivated by sheer ideology.

While the tribesmen know the art of resistance they also know the art of extortion from occupiers who try to buy them. Thus while the tribal Pathans killed many thousand occupiers in the British era they also managed to extort many subsidy payments from the British. Thus the same tribesmen who worked as contract laborers making roads for the British during day time, enjoyed sniping and shooting many British officers after sunset or during daytime when not on duty.

Thus when a lashkar of tribesmen appears to be on the payroll of political agents fed by US CIA dollars, all is not what it seems. In this case the tribals are performing an overt function of collaboration and a covert function of increasing their financial muscle which may be subsequently channelised into gun running, drugs or Jihad.

The tribesmen were not loyal subjects of the British. They spent their lives in sniping and ambushing the British and their mercenary Indian troops. Their life script was not to get a BA degree and become a minor civil servant or an ICS officer more loyal than the King. Nor did they get barristers degree and conduct profitable law practices in the courts of the British occupiers.

These men defied the British, killing over 10,000 British or Indian troops from 1849 to 1947, bleeding the British Empire white, forcing the British to maintain a division plus force in the Trans Indus tribal tract. These tribesmen gave sanctuary to Mughal Prince Ferozshah and to the followers of Syed Ahmad Shaheed of Rai Barelly at Malka and Ambela. These tribesmen greeted the British Indian army with fire while many today are famous as great Muslim leaders accepted knighthood and were ridiculed for doing so by Maulana Zafar Ali Khan of "Zamindar" fame.

The tribesmen acceded to Pakistan out of their free will. They were not conquered by the Pakistan Army. As a matter of fact no army including the Mughal, Sikh or British ever succeeded in conquering them. The tribal areas were occupied, overrun but never conquered. Their mosques were never used as stables and powder magazines as many in the tract East of Indus including the Badshahi Mosque of Lahore.

The tribesmen were not saved by the army of the English East India Company unlike the Muslims of Delhi or UP or the Muslims of Punjab and settled Pathan areas were from Hindu Marathas and Sikhs in 1803 and 1849. The tribesmen's mosques were not restored after humble petitioning to the English East India Company as was the case with Badshahi Mosque of Lahore in 1856.

The tribesmen were not willing mercenaries of the British and many Mehsuds, Wazirs and Afridis defected to the German lines in WW-I and returned to Tirah and Waziristan to wage Jihad against the British. The tribesmen cannot be compared with mercenary Muslim troops who opened fire on the Holy Ka'aba on British orders or who gunned down freedom fighters like an FF unit did at Jallianwalla Bagh in 1919.

The tribesmen acceded to Pakistan on the solemn assurance by Mr Jinnah that their customs and their Pathan way of life would not be interfered with. The tribesmen waged Pakistan's first successful Jihad in Kashmir in 1947-48. The tribesmen were used as cannon fodder during the Afghan War of 1979-89 when many generals became rich overnight and won cheap glory without exposing themselves to within 300 miles of hostile fire. The tribals braved salvoes of Soviet Katushkas and shrapnel of Hind Gun ships while sons of ex military tailors became billionaires.

The tribals were more Pan Islamist than Jamaluddin Afghani, more martial than any so called martial race of Indo Pak. More resolute than any general from Cape Komorin to Khunjerab Pass. The tribals are raised as snipers, not as sycophants, their life script is not to please 15 different seniors and get a good ACR, practicing sycophancy with civilian prime ministers and launching coups without a shot being fired against unarmed civilian heads of state.

What is happening in the tribal areas is not in Pakistan's national interests. The venom which has been forced into the tribal Pathan's soul is counterproductive for Pakistan in the long run.

The tribal areas has seen many occupiers. They are classic practitioners of Liddell Harts strategy of indirect approach. Their guerrilla tactics are far more subtle than that of Mao, Ho Chi Minh or Che Guevara. They apply Mao without knowing what he had written. They apply Sandino's Nicaraguan tactics which brought US Marines to grief without ever having heard of him. They are warriors par excellence.

For each militant handed over the tribals gain goodwill from greedy political agents who they deceive and thus succeed in sheltering 50 militants. There is a method in the apparent outward collaboration of the tribals. They cannot be overawed by a telephone call or bought by a million dollar retainer.

No cadet school or college can tame the tribals for whom music is the whistling bullet and its ricochet in the rocky gorges of Waziristan. The tribals don't need a federal government to make money. Their very location is an asset.

Beware of despising the tribals. They brought both Muslim and non Muslim Emperors to grief whether it was Jahangir, Shah Jahan, Aurangzeb, Ranjit Singh or the British king.

These are not the men who would sell their mother for a thousand dollars as some US senator said about some Pakistani leaders. These leaders may be found in Dera Ghazi Khan or somewhere East of the tribal areas. The tribals are sons of their fathers and there is no confusion about their paternity.

A man who does not know the tribal Pathan way of life is not competent to judge the subtleties of their character. It appears that the same mistake is being made today in the highest echelons of Pakistan's present military usurpers.

I have always had a problem with people saying "oh the Afghans and the Tribal Pakistanis are unconquerable". simply because any nation that has tried to conquer them have always come from far away lands, the fact that the Durand line exists is is a testament to the fact that Afghanistan as a nation and the Tribal regions that are on both sides of the border, can be conquered, so never let those who say that Afghanistan is unconquerable get to you, because it's simply not true.

If ever a time comes that Afghanstan and Pakistan go to war over the territory that is Baluchistan, KPK and the FATA regions, Pakistan would crush Afghanistan, and seeing as Pakistan isn't going anywhere, it has all the time in the world, unlike the Brits, Russians, Americans, and other Empires.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I did consult the staff about growing hostility, hatred against tribals on this forum, specially very senior members talking of nuking FATA, using chemicals on them, giving it tora bora treatment, concentration camps should be made for tribals like jews in WW2 etc ..the response of staff was disappointing, according to them "these are personal opinions of the members and they have right to express it"
It seems staff itself resent the fact that the faujis are getting killed in FATA, such resentment should be expected after all it is a military forum.

 

[Secur]

This and other thread shows that pakistan think of tribals, afghans and pakhtuns as adversaries and defend imperialists like britian, russia and america to counter pakhtuns...iqbal and akbar ala abadi warned us about such maghrib-zada class of muslims

You were just shown some facts shattering the myth of " unconquerable " and " graveyard of empires " Afghanistan telling you the story of why foreigners invaded and left , you were also told about the times the Afghanistan was conquered and remained under occupation , you were asked to ponder over the current condition of their country and that of yours , why post a thread when you do not like the bitter truth ? I do not remember anybody defending U.S, USSR or Britain rather stating the ground realities and ugly facts .

I did consult the staff about growing hostility, hatred against tribals on this forum, specially very senior members talking of nuking FATA, using chemicals on them, giving it tora bora treatment, concentration camps should be made for tribals like jews in WW2 etc ..the response of staff was disappointing, according to them "these are personal opinions of the members and they have right to express it"
It seems staff itself resent the fact that the faujis are getting killed in FATA, such resentment should be expected after all it is a military forum.

But there's no growing hostility at all against anyone except those who took arms against the state . So , how did you consult the staff about something that is non existent and doesn't happen ? Only a single member talked of nuking that area and he was met with appropriate response , no need to further cry on that and play the victim game here . Do not make stories up about concentration camps and what-not .

The response of the staff was just in line with the forum rules which clearly state that an individual is allowed to express any opinion under certain limits and rules . The right of free speech is guaranteed here on this forum . Everyone resents the facts that soldiers are getting killed in tribal areas , what does that have to do with the staff's assertion of the freedom of expression on this cyber domain ?

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

You were just shown some facts shattering the myth of " unconquerable " and " graveyard of empires " Afghanistan telling you the story of why foreigners invaded and left , you were also told about the times the Afghanistan was conquered and remained under occupation , you were asked to ponder over the current condition of their country and that of yours , why post a thread when you do not like the bitter truth ? I do not remember anybody defending U.S, USSR or Britain rather stating the ground realities and ugly facts .



But there's no growing hostility at all against anyone except those who took arms against the state . So , how did you consult the staff about something that is non existent and doesn't happen ? Only a single member talked of nuking that area and he was met with appropriate response , no need to further cry on that and play the victim game here . Do not make stories up about concentration camps and what-not .

The response of the staff was just in line with the forum rules which clearly state that an individual is allowed to express any opinion under certain limits and rules . The right of free speech is guaranteed here on this forum . Everyone resents the facts that soldiers are getting killed in tribal areas , what does that have to do with their assertion of the freedom of expression on this cyber domain ?

O.k support me in this thread if you really are that sincere,
http://www.defence.pk/forums/sugges...-any-who-talk-about-nuking-fata-new-post.html

 

[That Guy]

I do agree that such words are highly questionable and the lack of action against the people by the mods is also...poor. Having said that, I believe in freedom of speech, and the right of people to be a-holes, as long as no one gets physically hurt.

 

[MST]

Lol funny so army was not there in Kashmir ..do you need me to post some documentaries about what your army did with kashmiri people ?

Use your brain if pak have not used nukes for India then how logic is to think that they will be used against TTP who love to hide behind people and use them as human shields

Terrorists in Kashmir are enemy combatants trained and funded by Pakistan. They are not Indians.

Still the main fighting force in Kashmir against these terrorists is Rashtriya Rifles which is under Home Ministry i.e. a paramilitary force. The second main force is the CRPF which is a Police force.

Also we have never used Airforce in Kashmir so as to avoid any casualty to civilians. At the end of the day there may be collateral damage but no Indian has ever dreamt of things for Kashmir which are been openly suggested here for FATA like...aerial bombing, carpet bombing, nuking and so on.

 

[haviZsultan]

We really need to reassess our policy in Waziristan. Taliban terrorists come around and suddenly attack soldiers, then go back and hide amongst the people. Waziristan has never been conquered by the sword. The thing that can tame the tribesmen is educational institutions, roads, healthcare units, hospitals. Instead the standard of living is below any where else in Pakistan. Just compare the 22% literacy rate of FATA to the rest of the country.

 

[Zarvan]

We really need to reassess our policy in Waziristan. Taliban terrorists come around and suddenly attack soldiers, then go back and hide amongst the people. Waziristan has never been conquered by the sword. The thing that can tame the tribesmen is educational institutions, roads, healthcare units, hospitals. Instead the standard of living is below any where else in Pakistan. Just compare the 22% literacy rate of FATA to the rest of the country.

Sir this will also not tame them Sir only that can decrease their anger is that you stop killing your own people and stop being partners with USA

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

We really need to reassess our policy in Waziristan. Taliban terrorists come around and suddenly attack soldiers, then go back and hide amongst the people. Waziristan has never been conquered by the sword. The thing that can tame the tribesmen is educational institutions, roads, healthcare units, hospitals. Instead the standard of living is below any where else in Pakistan. Just compare the 22% literacy rate of FATA to the rest of the country.

Male literacy rate is 36%. And you need to understand most of the educated tribals gets settled in KPK, FATA itself is not suitable for living with no infrastructure at all.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

That is how taliban "rats" hunt american "elephants".
New Video of Organized Taliban Attack - YouTube
@Zarvan, @Secur, @Safriz, @django, @Raja.Pakistani @That Guy, @pakdefender