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Why Pakistan Said No to King Salman of KSA

Kargil your army abandoned your soldiers dint even claim their bodies so much so for valor and moved back to previous LAC.
TTP killed 120+ school children, continues to bomb,kill and maim civilians.

And you think you won the war :sarcastic::sarcastic::sarcastic::sarcastic: Now i know why pakistan keeps losing and sends in hapless misguided civilians as terrorists.:omghaha::omghaha::omghaha:


tale of two armies,
one who is fighting vicious fighters armed to the teeth, yes they will loose lives like any fighting army does.

then there is one army who is fighting men armed with stones and woman with dopata, and if you ever get to see the footage of that army you see laghar langrey looley bhokey homless looking soldiers. These soldiers wont loose lives because no soldier no matter how laghar looking has ever died raping woman. (now that calls for :omghaha::omghaha::omghaha:)
 
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Kargil your army abandoned your soldiers dint even claim their bodies so much so for valor and moved back to previous LAC.
TTP killed 120+ school children, continues to bomb,kill and maim civilians.

And you think you won the war :sarcastic::sarcastic::sarcastic::sarcastic: Now i know why pakistan keeps losing and sends in hapless misguided civilians as terrorists.:omghaha::omghaha::omghaha:



Truth is so ugly and revealing you need to give negative rating. :pakistan:

I see you laughing too much.. let me take it away..
Kargil highest peak 5353 is in Pakistans control. This is the peak from where we can still see the indian supply roots. :)
 
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Why Pakistan said no to King Salman - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

GULF PULSE
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نبض الخليج
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Soldiers walk past the parliament building during a joint sitting of the parliament in Islamabad, April 10, 2015. (photo by REUTERS/Faisal Mahmood)

AUTHOR: Bruce Riedel


Why Pakistan said no to King Salman


Saudi Arabia's request for tangible Pakistani help for Operation Decisive Storm in Yemen has led to an unprecedented rejection by Islamabad. In response to a direct face-to-face request from King Salman bin Abdul-Aziz Al Saud for ground troops and aircraft for the war against Zaydi Shiite Houthi rebels in Yemen last month, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif took the issue to the Pakistani parliament, which on April 10 unanimously decided to stay out of the war. On April 13, Sharif reaffirmed the parliament's decision while also pledging Pakistan's commitment to Saudi Arabia.

Pakistan's unanimous decision to stay out of the conflict brewing in Yemen, and to push for a political resolution rather than a military one, puts significant strain on bilateral relations, complicating Saudi-Pakistani diplomatic relations.
After five days of debate, not one speaker apparently supported sending ground troops. While many praised Saudi Arabia as a friend of Pakistan, almost all called for a political solution and diplomacy to end the crisis. Some even blamed Riyadh for starting the war. Every political party opposed sending troops. The consensus was to stay neutral while reaffirming friendship with the kingdom.

Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif visited Pakistan during the debate. He met with both Prime Minister Sharif and Chief of Army Staff Raheel Sharif. The army has argued that it is stretched too thin with a counterterrorism campaign against the Pakistani Taliban and tensions with India to send troops to Yemen. Nawaz Sharif said April 13 that he urged Zarif to rein in the Houthis and support a political solution.

The Pakistani response is a potentially big setback for the bilateral relationship. Given that Sharif owes his life to the Saudis, who helped save him from execution after the 1999 Gen. Pervez Musharraf coup and provided him exile (with a little help from Washington), it's a remarkable development. No Pakistani politician knows the Saudis better than Sharif or has more access to their inner circle.

Why did Sharif send the issue to parliament? A revealing editorial in the Pakistani press suggests the prime minister had already concluded that the Saudis have blundered into a war they cannot win and for which they are unprepared. Their goals, restoring the Hadi government to power and preventing the creation of a pro-Iranian regime on the Arabian Peninsula, are not matched by the resources available. Sharif met with the king and his advisers on the eve of the war and judged they "had made a strategic error led by an untested leadership that panicked" at Iran's role in Yemen.

In this account of Sharif's decision, the Pakistani leader reportedly believes that if the Saudis enter into a ground war in Yemen — with or without Pakistani forces — it will become a quagmire. They have simply "bitten off more than they can chew." The Egyptian experience in Yemen, in which Egypt had up to 20,000 casualties in the 1960s fighting the same Zaydi tribes that back the Houthis, figures prominently in Pakistani thinking, especially in the army.

But Sharif also does not want to endanger Pakistan's close ties to the kingdom. He will note that strong military and diplomatic relations will continue between Riyadh and Islamabad. Pakistani experts and advisers are already in the kingdom in small numbers. One died in a training accident in Saudi Arabia last week.

Sharif will also argue that he had no choice but to consult the parliament. Once a consensus emerged, he also could not go against it.

Already, close Saudi ally the United Arab Emirates has threatened that the no vote will have negative consequences for Pakistan's relationship with the Gulf states. The kingdom and the UAE provide sizable amounts of aid and investment to Pakistan. Hundreds of thousands of Pakistanis live and work in the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) states.

The episode also has implications for the long-standing issue of whether Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have a secret unwritten agreement for Islamabad to provide a nuclear weapon or several weapons to Riyadh if the kingdom felt threatened by an Iranian bomb. The Yemen crisis suggests any such vague nuclear "promise" may be worthless. If Islamabad won't deliver conventional ground and air support when the kingdom is at war with an Iranian proxy (the Saudi view of the Houthis), it can't be relied on to provide a bomb.

The episode also raises concerns about Iran's clout in the region. Much of the debate in parliament had been about avoiding further sectarian violence in Pakistan (which is 20% Shiite), which intervention in the war in Yemen would stoke (perhaps with Iranian help). Zarif had a big stick behind his back. Without ever mentioning the threat of Iranian meddling in Pakistan's already fragile domestic stability, Zarif could remind his hosts they don't want more trouble at home.

Zarif visited Pakistan after a stop in Oman, the other big no-show in the Yemen war. Oman is the only GCC state to stay out of the air war. Like Sharif, Sultan Qaboos is wary of the Yemen conflict expanding beyond Yemen's borders. Just west of Oman's Dhofar province both Houthi and al-Qaeda fighters have expanded their control since Operation Decisive Storm began. The Houthis seized Shabwa province last week and al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has taken much of Hadrawmawt province. The sultan is also wary of a quagmire that only benefits al-Qaeda.

There is now talk in Islamabad of Pakistan playing a mediator role to find a way to end the fighting. As a major Islamic power, Pakistan could potentially help engineer a face-saving solution to achieve a cease-fire and end the war. But that requires a willingness to compromise that as yet does not look apparent either in Riyadh or Sanaa.
Pakistan has not said no in fact latest reports suggest in next few days news of troops going or reaching KSA will come and the reason which would be given is death of few Saudi Soldiers till now
 
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Pakistan has not said no in fact latest reports suggest in next few days news of troops going or reaching KSA will come and the reason which would be given is death of few Saudi Soldiers till now

Are you coming or not ????? I will Personally welcome you .......
 
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Logically if you look at things our position was always going to be tight ; army busy with Zarb-e-azb and different operations, with situation in Baluchistan and the rest of the country we needed our army here , all it's concentration here ,so logically it was always going to be a long shot . The article seems to be well written , and agree with most of the part .
What do you think about operation Desert Storm ,@Daneshmand ? was there really a need to go onto the offence , were there any sorts of talks before this operation ? I don't see any point in air strikes (too many casualties , just the other day they were showing news about number of children dying because of these airstrikes ).
Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif visited Pakistan during the debate. He met with both Prime Minister Sharif and Chief of Army Staff Raheel Sharif. The army has argued that it is stretched too thin with a counterterrorism campaign against the Pakistani Taliban and tensions with India to send troops to Yemen. Nawaz Sharif said April 13 that he urged Zarif to rein in the Houthis and support a political solution.
Engaging with Turkey and Iran was important . These three countries should work to resolve this conflict .
Turkey, Pakistan to ‘accelerate’ Yemen efforts
That’s because the bigger story that emerged from Islamabad’s consultations with Riyadh, held before the parliamentary debate, was the government’s declaration that Saudi Arabia’s national security is a priority for Pakistan’s foreign policy.
If Saudis national security is directly threatened , we should send our troops to help our allies ,especially protecting the religious sites .
Already, close Saudi ally the United Arab Emirates has threatened that the no vote will have negative consequences for Pakistan's relationship with the Gulf states. The kingdom and the UAE provide sizable amounts of aid and investment to Pakistan. Hundreds of thousands of Pakistanis live and work in the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) states.
I guess they were expecting us to do as they commanded , fools .
We will do what's in our best interest , no point in becoming a part of unnecessary or avoidable conflict .
There is now talk in Islamabad of Pakistan playing a mediator role to find a way to end the fighting.
The best way to move forward .

Tougher times are yet to be faced , as if we are to talk with these rebels it won't be easy . What will be their demands ? many factors involved .
Now the Saudis are working with it's partners to halt Irans influence in the Middle East .
ISRAEL,ARAB WORLD FIND COMMON GROUND OVER IRAN
will only lead to more fire in the region .
 
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I will favor the military intervention if Yemen becomes Pakistan's autonomous foreign territory after the war is won. That way we will have a tangible stake in GCC as well. Unless there is a piece in it for us, there's no reson to join up.

I would favour it if there is a formal mutual defence treaty. Meaning men and material in case of our war or escalated tension.
 
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Had the Saudi consulted Pakistani Military for this operation before starting this adventure, they would have got best advice and strategy. Fighting gorilla war in mountainous region even on home grounds is very difficult and take heavy toll and years to be successful, don't know who told them that they can accomplish it in another country within days. At-least i am not aware of any example where this kind of adventure have been successful. British empire failed, Soviet Union failed, US failed - And GCC is dwarf as compare to these powers. Pakistan itself have lost thousands lives, and have been fighting since years. It still looks like we need couple of more years to accomplish total elimination of threat.
 
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I will favor the military intervention if Yemen becomes Pakistan's autonomous foreign territory after the war is won. That way we will have a tangible stake in GCC as well. Unless there is a piece in it for us, there's no reson to join up.
Then you have to go to fight that war not sending the innocent soldier ho they have families to care about.

That is the best decision Pakistan made ever.

And that was the biggest trap ever for Pakistn if they send troops to Yemen.

The fear isn't from India backstabing Pakistan the fear is from the filth jihadist who awaiting to make Pakistan another Afghanistan.
 
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Logically if you look at things our position was always going to be tight ; army busy with Zarb-e-azb and different operations, with situation in Baluchistan and the rest of the country we needed our army here , all it's concentration here ,so logically it was always going to be a long shot . The article seems to be well written , and agree with most of the part .
What do you think about operation Desert Storm ,@Daneshmand ? was there really a need to go onto the offence , were there any sorts of talks before this operation ? I don't see any point in air strikes (too many casualties , just the other day they were showing news about number of children dying because of these airstrikes ).

Engaging with Turkey and Iran was important . These three countries should work to resolve this conflict .
Turkey, Pakistan to ‘accelerate’ Yemen efforts

If Saudis national security is directly threatened , we should send our troops to help our allies ,especially protecting the religious sites .

I guess they were expecting us to do as they commanded , fools .
We will do what's in our best interest , no point in becoming a part of unnecessary or avoidable conflict .

The best way to move forward .

Tougher times are yet to be faced , as if we are to talk with these rebels it won't be easy . What will be their demands ? many factors involved .
Now the Saudis are working with it's partners to halt Irans influence in the Middle East .
ISRAEL,ARAB WORLD FIND COMMON GROUND OVER IRAN
will only lead to more fire in the region .

I think this has to do with internal Saudi rivalry inside the royal family. The new king wants to promote his young son and the Sudairi Seven family and sideline the rest of royals. Otherwise, from military point of view this is going to be a failure. In modern military history, there is not even a single example of a conventional force having defeated an insurgency on a foreign land. This is a political problem, and can not be air-bombed to solve. Houthis want to have a say in running of the Yemeni government.

Better would be for a neutral nation to invite a conference where all the sides of Yemeni conflict could talk and reach a political solution. Saudis have outright refused to accept Houthis as a stake holder in Yemen, calling them stooges. And Houthis are angry at Saudi bombing. As the article says, at the end of it, Riyadh and Sana are not ready to compromise at this stage. In my view, Saudis will eventually have to work out a strategy to save face, since their military campaign is going nowhere. The more they push this, the more Saudi position gets weakened. It would be good, for Pakistan to play neutral and mediate.
 
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@Daneshmand

The war is becoming an immeasurable mess and I see talks coming very soon. Pakistan was right to stay out of this one.
 
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Otherwise, from military point of view this is going to be a failure. In modern military history, there is not even a single example of a conventional force having defeated an insurgency on a foreign land.

Have you looked at military history? there are plenty of insurgencies that have been militarily crushed
 
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