Why Pakistan’s army is more popular than its politicians

[patna_ke_presley]

Pakistan's military budget is about 2.6% of its GDP, a little less/better than India('s 2.8%). It's expected to fall to 2.4% next year. Pakistan's military budget is $5.6 billion I believe, out of the country's total budget of $32 billion (please correct me if this figure is wrong). That's about 17.5% of the country's overall budget. And isn't the $5.6 billion largely self generated as well?

The data is not 17.5%, Pakistani defence forces get about 26% of budget after all de-facto expenses on Army are calculated. The Defacto Defence budget reaches somewhere about $8.7 Billion.

For India it is 1.83% of GDP, not 2.8%.

 

[Peregrine]

They are not only in Pakistani media........ We have quite a few on defence.pk as well

 

[LaBong]

Did I say the author was from the liberal fascist brigade?

One might have different idea from the title and below excerpt -

The excerpts highlighted in red show the terrible inaccuracies in this article published by the Express Tribune. Although I have no problems with an Indian writing an article in a Pakistani media outlet (some people might), as I believe in the freedom of speech & expression, I believe the best way to deal with this liberal fascist brigade is not to push them down, but to expose their fallacious arguments. It is a terribly argued piece, & I'd ask you all to give your comments before I give mine.

Your assumption is based on your opinions, & not based on any facts. I've given you the Pakistan Army breakdown by ethnicity, & it corresponds pretty well with the population of various ethnic groups in Pakistan. I don't care what the situation was like in 2001, I care about the present.

It's indeed based on the facts.

Only 2 % increase of Sindhi population since 2001, the sudden downwards of jump of Punjabi fraction in Army is because of sudden 9% induction from Azad Kashmir. Taking a wild guess, most of them would have come from areas near Mirpur.

Punjabis dominate PA, it's fact, anyone saying otherwise is just turning a blind eye towards the reality.

 

[LaBong]

Punjabis are the largest category of Pakistanis, wouldn't it be normal if their representation in every sphere (not only the Army) is dominating?

Nobody has ever stopped a particular ethnicity from joining the military or any other institution, and as Develpro pointed out, the Army is a voluntary one, one cannot bar or promote a particular group from joining it. Moreover, the Army has welcomed anyone (including) non-Muslims to opt for it as a profession.

Induction of Balochis in large numbers even at the stake of lowering our induction criteria is enough a proof:


Balochistan: One more step towards "National Integration"
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/87561-army-recruit-10-000-baloch-youth.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/land-forces/134167-pakistan-army-5-000-baloch-jawans-passing-out-3.html

Also, there has been an increased representation of non-punjabis:

So it is really stupid to ask why the Punjabi's 'dominate' the military as there's no practice of discrimination whatsoever.

Xeric, I don't think PA officially discriminate people based on ethnicity, it's just that PA and IA are continuation of British Indian Army and historically Muslim Punjabis made the bulk of the armed forces. It's the martial race theory in effect.

Regarding the demographic composition of PA, please notice the sudden 9% of force going under Kashmir column, it's only "sorted" to make it look decent, while in effect only 2% of Sindhis and Baluchis have been inducted.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Punjabis dominate PA, it's fact, anyone saying otherwise is just turning a blind eye towards the reality.

Again, the statistics indicate that the demographics of the Army loosely match the demographics of the country - what else would you expect?

Do you want Punjabis to start drowning themselves in the Indus in order to reduce the size of the Punjabi community in Pakistan, and subsequently reduce the size of the Punjabi component of the Army?

I am not sure what exactly you are driving at here?

 

[LaBong]

It's also interesting that we never cease hearing lies about how the Army eats up 80% of the country's overall budget. Oh well, haters will continue to hate.

Now you're raising a straw man and throwing non sequiturs at it!

Where did anyone say 80% of budget goes to Army, the author actually have been to the point most of the time(except when he said IA is double of PA, should have counted the effective man power!).

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Regarding the demographic composition of PA, please notice the sudden 9% of force going under Kashmir column, it's only "sorted" to make it look decent, while in effect only 2% of Sindhis and Baluchis have been inducted.

What are you basing your claim of 'only sorted to make it look decent' on?

And when you look at the '17% Sindhi and 4% Baluch' stats, why do you claim that 'in effect only 2% of Sindhis and Baluch have been inducted'?

 

[LaBong]

Again, the statistics indicate that the demographics of the Army loosely match the demographics of the country - what else would you expect?

Do you want Punjabis to start drowning themselves in the Indus in order to reduce the size of the Punjabi community in Pakistan, and subsequently reduce the size of the Punjabi component of the Army?

I am not sure what exactly you are driving at here?

That 45% of Punjabis make up 71% of land force(as of 2001). It's heavily skewed.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That 45% of Punjabis make up 71% of land force(as of 2001). It's heavily skewed.

As of 2011 they make up 54.5% - why are you ignoring the more recent statistics?

 

[LaBong]

What are you basing your claim of 'only sorted to make it look decent' on?

And when you look at the '17% Sindhi and 4% Baluch' stats, why do you claim that 'in effect only 2% of Sindhis and Baluch have been inducted'?

As of 2011 they make up 54.5% - why are you ignoring the more recent statistics?

9 % of Punjabis were given Kashmiri status who were missing in 2001 data.

2 % more since 2001 when Sindhis were 15 % and Baluch were 2 %.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That 45% of Punjabis make up 71% of land force(as of 2001). It's heavily skewed.

BTW, the 2011 demographic breakup does not include 'Seraiki' as an option, which would come under Punjab and according to the 1998 census constitutes an additional 10% of the total population ...

 

[RazPaK]

Even in Punjab there live Pashtuns and Baluch in big numbers too. I'm guessing they base it on the person's hometown rather than actual ethnicity/race.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

9 % of Punjabis were given Kashmiri status who were missing in 2001 data.

Why do you claim that the 9% were Punjabis, instead of residents of Kashmir and the Northern Areas?

Of the top of my head I can point to the induction of the Northern Light Infantry as a regular Army unit after the Kargil conflict as debunking your claim of 'Punjabis being shifted to the Kashmir and NA Column'

2 % more since 2001 when Sindhis were 15 % and Baluch were 2 %.

Sindhis are 14% of the total Pakistani population and Baluch are 3.57%, according to the 1998 census - so whats wrong with their numbers being where they are currently?

The proportion of Sindhis in the Army is in fact now almost 3% higher than the proportion of Sindhi's in the total population of Pakistan (17% vs 14%) - so even back in 2001 the Sindhi component of the Army was higher than the Sindhi component of the total population.

 

[LaBong]

BTW, the 2011 demographic breakup does not include 'Seraiki' as an option, which would come under Punjab and according to the 1998 census constitutes an additional 10% of the total population ...

I think the author was trying to convey that the bloodshed in Punjab region and following demographic shift diluted a stable society. You are needlessly being defensive.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Even in Punjab there live Pashtuns and Baluch in big numbers too. I'm guessing they base it on the person's hometown rather than actual ethnicity/race.

The Census breaks it down by 'Mother tongue' - I am not sure how the Army demographic breakdown is done - whether by mother tongue or by domicile ...