Why Pakistan’s army is more popular than its politicians

[Jango]

You were really bold there Xeric.

Those Baloch people, having been cut off to some extent from the mainstream news and all that, and living a somewhat secluded life, have set up businesses for themselves that quite simply are very good for them, you get to live with the family, get some money, the local Nawab gives something as well and all that.

 

[Manas]

Why Pakistan’s army is more popular than its politicians

Actually Apas ki Baat episode in the OP of the thread below inspired the indian write Aakar Patel to write the above titled column of his.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/150627-indian-democracy-vs-pakistan-democracy.html

 

[Areesh]

Lol some post by the General Xeric. Applause.

 

[Xeric]

The Census breaks it down by 'Mother tongue' - I am not sure how the Army demographic breakdown is done - whether by mother tongue or by domicile ...

It's based on Domicile.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Read the following,
Defence budget and national security – The Express Tribune
Pakistan: CATCH-22 OF DEFENCE SPENDING | Opinion Maker
PAKISTAN OBSERVER: RAVI RIKHYE ON PAKISTANS DEFENCE BUDGET AND THE INDIA PAKISTAN CHINA DEFENCE EQUATION

Pakistani government plans to spend Rs. 150 billion on the Pakistani security forces over and above the defense budget of Rs. 495 for the fiscal year 2011-12.

Out of Rs. 150 billion for the armed forces, Rs. 80 billion will be given under the 10-year Armed Forces Development Programme while another Rs. 50 billion for reimbursed under the Coalition Support Fund (CSF) by the US. Remaining Rs. 20 billion are for participation of the Pakistani security forces for United Nations Peacekeeping Operations.

This will made the total expenditure on the defense department of Pakistan Rs. 645 billion for fiscal year 2011-12. Sources say that Rs. 495 billion are considered as part of traditional needs of the Pakistani defense forces and large part of this will be spent on the salaries and war deployments across the country to fight the threat of terrorism.

These allocations will be spent by the Pakistan to meet the goals set in the Armed Forces Development Programme. AFDP (Armed Forces Development Programme) was started by the Musharraf government to build the capacity of Pakistani security forces to meet future challenges .

Under AFDP, Pakistan Air Force is purchasing fighter jets, training jets, airborne early warning and control (AEW&C), transport aircrafts and surface to air missile systems to build a capability to defend the Pakistani airspace effectively.

Pakistan Navy is in process of acquiring maritime patrol aircrafts, AEW&C aircrafts, fighter jets, helicopters, Submarines, Frigates and different kind of missiles to keep the sea lines of Pakistan safe in case of attack by the enemy.

Under this program, Pakistani Army plans to purchase gunship helicopters, transport helicopters and allocations for locally developed main battle tanks, armed personal carriers and short range airdefence systems.

AFDP (Armed Forces Development Programme) was original planed to end in 2019 but due to the changes in the regional security perspective it was decided to extend the program to 2025. Medium term goals of this program are to be met by the year 2019-20 and long term goals will be met by 2025.


Read more: Pakistan Allocates Separate Budget to the Armed Forces Development Programme ~ Pakistan Military Review

======

The breakdown of the defence budget (spending on WoT related expenses, CSF reimbursements etc.) would indicate that the defence spending is currently artificially high because of Pakistan's participation in the WoT and the associated higher costs.

The GoP could of course choose to redeploy the military back to the Eastern front, and solely use the paramilitary FC and civilian law enforcement and intelligence agencies to fight the WoT, in which case the budget would still have to reflect the higher costs (perhaps even higher since the civilian institutions would require equipment and training that the military already has).

Also, with respect to CSF reimbursements - it would appear that the military is not receiving these funds directly from the US - the CSF funds are going to the GoP, which is then allocating a certain amount to the military.

 

[Xeric]

You dont even know a shyt about how many Mirpurs are there inside Pakistan and you are trying to take a guess!

We'll talk again when you would understand what i was trying to say here.

Labong, i know you wont even get near what i was referring to, so here let me help you out:
Though i know you were basing your 'guess' on the Mirpur in AK, still i dont think you are "qualified" for even making a guess around here:

Mirpur, Azad Kashmir, largest city of Azad Kashmir
Mirpur District, one of the seven districts of Azad Kashmir
Mirpur Khas, a city in Sindh
Mirpur, North-West Frontier Province, a Union Council of Abbottabad district
Mirpur Tehsil, a subdivision of Kachhi district, in Balochistan province

Because your situation is like this 'Man':

A man was seated next to a kid in an airplane. The man turned to him and said,"Let's Talk." Kid: Ok,what do we talk about? Man(Making fun of the kid): How abt nuclear power? Kid: Very interesting topic. But let me ask you a question... Horse Cow & Deer, all eat grass. Yet deer excretes pellets, cow flat potty & horse clumps. Why? Man: I don't know. Child: Do you really feel qualified enough to discuss nuclear issues when you dont know shyt...

---

Try to take another "guess" (a wilder one) now...

Only 2 % increase of Sindhi population since 2001, the sudden downwards of jump of Punjabi fraction in Army is because of sudden 9% induction from Azad Kashmir. Taking a wild guess, most of them would have come from areas near Mirpur.

See, taking 'wild guesses' and wishful thinking would only get you this far on PDF!

 

[Xeric]

Hmmm.. was digging into the size of the NLI regiment, and it appears to be comprised of 58 Battalions - assuming an average of 800 soldiers per battalion, that is around 46000 soldiers.


9% of the 500,000 strong regular Pakistan Army would be around 45,000 troops - so perhaps the induction of the induction of the NLI regiment into the regular Army did in fact impact the demographics significantly ...

The Kashmiris and NA Cast in the Army was there well before the regularization of the NLI Regiment. So where as the induction of NLI into the mainstream sure have impacted the class composition of the Army, it did not change the fact that Kashmiris were already making a mentionable (though not prominent enough to show up) part of the Army well before the inclusion of NLI troops.

Or from where did you think the Azad Kashmir Regiment come from (before regularization of NLI)?

As of today, AK Regiment and the NLI Regiment are as different in composition as Punjab Regiment differ from Sindhi/Baloch or for that matter FF Regiment.

 

[Xeric]

Worth Watching for you. Pakistani actually spend 17% on Development purpose(Education, Infrastructure, Healthcare) and 26% on defence. Rest is wasted for repaying debt . In this video you are free to point out anything on the anchor but do listen to what Ali Salman is saying. Most of Pakistan budget is wasted in repaying debt.

I read a book about Pakistan in 1987 Pakistan spend whooping 8.5% of GDP on defence and in year 1991 Pakistan defence budget was about half of India's defence budget.

Now shushhhh...!!

 

[Xeric]

And Agno, Labong... re NLI
Let's also keep in mind that since the NLI was made a Regular Regiment, there class composition was changed from 100% Northerners to a mixture of other castes including Sindhis, Balochis, Pathans and ofcourse Punjabis, like any other Regiment of the Army (the Punjab, Sindh Regiment etc).

Common sense and my info says that this is done so prevent demarcation/isolation of ethnic groups/castes and so that a healthy grouping is promoted among the Regiments. Otherwise Sindh Regiment would be just sindhis and NLI would just be Northerners, which can be disastrous, unnatural and most importantly hurt the essence of Regimentation in ANY Army (the promotion of National tendencies rather than Sub-National ones).

Would Pepsi india or Pakistan like to have only ABC cast in the marketing dept, only DEF caste in Finaince and only XYZ caste in Human Resource?

 

[Xeric]

How many of NLI would be ethnic Kashmiris and how many would be from areas near mirpur.

Again Mirpur

Anyway induction of NLI is quite recent while we discussing events which were the after effect of partition.

Like i have pointed out earlier, induction of NLI does not mean that there was no representation of Northerners (Kashmiris) after partition. Infact the AK Regimnet i.e. the represanttaion of Kashmiris in the Pakistan Army was there from the very begenning (right after partition):
Though not credible (wiki)

The Azad Kashmir Regular Forces, established in 1947, were armed and supported by Pakistani government. The regiment has the distinction of not having being raised by any government order, but "raised itself" when bands of armed WWII veterans organized themselves into disciplined ad hoc platoons, companies and battalions led by retired officers and NCOs, and went out to fight in Kashmir against the Regular Indian Army in 1948. After cease-fire was declared in Kashmir, these battalions joined together to form the Azad Kashmir Regular Forces (AKRF). The AKRF had its own intake and training structure separate from the Pakistan Army. The AKRF was the military element of the Azad Kashmir Government. Uniforms and rank structures were the same as the Pakistan Army.

And this:

The Azad Kashmir Regiment - Sons of the Battlefield​

The Azad Kashmir Regiment is one of the six infantry regiments of Pakistan Army. Its Regimental Center is located at Mansar, Attock District, Punjab.


History


In formulating the Division of the Indian Sub-continent the British in their plan of 3rd June 1947 had not done complete justice. For, In spite of having decided that Muslim-majority provinces would form Pakistan, the provinces of Punjab and Bengal were subjected to further subdivisions along ethnic and religious lines to accommodate minorities. Further decimation to that original declaration came when rulers of all the states were given the choice to decide the destiny of their subjects.

The Kashmir State's population was overwhelmingly Muslim, yet their representation in the armed forces and police services was extremely meager. The Hindu ruler, for the security of his own rule, maintained a Hindu army and predominantly Hindus security forces. The Muslims on the other hand, were untrained in the art of weaponry and at a disadvantage, right from the outset.

The Hindu Maharaja, concluded a Standstill Agreement with Pakistan to be effective from 15th August 1947, while on the other hand he gave a free hand to India to make inroads into Kashmir. He ceased to have any allegiance of his own people due to use of ruthless suppression by brute force. The uprising erupted, simultaneously, throughout Kashmir, and the situation went completely out of his control.

Conception and Origins

As the Hindu Maharaja in order to buy time and, in the process, cause extermination of the Muslim population through the use of brute force, had entered into the Standstill Agreement with Pakistan. The Muslim Majority sensed the obvious; and so they resolved to challenge the State authority by voluntarily taking up arms to overthrow the yoke of slavery and subjugation. It set the pace for the freedom struggle and proved to be the foundation stone of the Azad Kashmir Regiment with effect from 1st October 1947.

The Brave and armless people after having chosen the path of armed struggle armed themselves with any weapons they could find. Axes, swords, spears and muzzle-loaders. The best they thus had were a very few Darra-made (Darra Adam Khel) single-shot 303 rifles. Initial organization into platoon/company size groups took place under local leaders in respective areas of domicile, as the struggle went on, this rag tag group turned out into a rugged and organized Force.


The War of Liberation, 1947-48

Initially successes and gains were quickly achieved. By 22nd October, of that year 1947, the the freedom fighters had routed large numbers of the State Army and para-military forces and gained a substantial area. So much so, that one such column had actually managed to reach the outskirts of Srinagar, the summer capital of the State. The strategy of a quick and organized nimble force had come to fruition. The brave struggle resulted in formation of a formal government, the Government of Azad Jammu and Kashmir State under Sardar Muhammad Ibrahim Khan on 24th October, 1947. However, soon after On the 27th at 0900 hours, Indian troops after holding on to the strategically important Srinagar Airport started landing troops. This was supported on the land front by battle units from the Madhupur head works over the Ravi River. However, this was more than good strategy since they had already been kept on standby, awaiting formal orders.

By this time, the rag-tag freedom fighters, already short on supplies and delayed by untimely decisions had to face yet another uphill task. They were to stand against the Indian Army and Air Force. Outgunned and Out maneuvered they held on to their ground long enough to force the Indian Government to ask the Security Council's help through a formal complaint on 1st January, 1948. The Freedom struggle would have died then and there if it were not for the Afghan lashkars from North-West Frontier Province and some from Punjab that joined their fellow brothers in early 1948 to reinforce their indigenous struggle for freedom.

The situation on the ground had worsened, as the ill-armed freedom fighters fought on against the might of the well supplied and fresh Indian Army units supported by Indian Air Force till 2nd May, 1948, when at last Pakistan was able to field some troops in a supportive role. The indigenous freedom movement had thus changed into conventional war. The resulting scenario remained so for the next seven to eight months.

The Indian big wigs were planning on a military solution through brute force to etch lines as India had done in Junagadh and Hyderabad Dakkan. However, their plans of grandeur were smashed by the rag tag Azad Kashmir Regular Force (now Azad Kashmir Regiment) with due support of the Pakistan Army. The might of the Indian Juggernaut had thus been blunted. It was now facing the dilemma of being unable to defeat the Azad Kashmir Regular Force and its friendly allies. Fearing not only a stall mate but an impending defeat, the Indians thus found it more beneficial to arrange ceasefire through the United Nations’ Security Council on 1st January, 1949.

In its history, The Azad Kashmir Regiment thus enjoys the unique honor of having been born and nurtured in the battlefield. They were thus sons of the battlefield of the war of liberation. Its pioneers the devoted sons of the soil, who took up arms against worst suppression for freedom of their motherland. Facing incredible odds, a lack of resources and bad weather, they marched ever on with their deep faith in their destiny. The righteous struggle of innocent farmers and laborers had thus liberated an area over 34,000 square miles. The land that is now called the Azad Jammu and Kashmir and Northern Areas.


Forming the Battle Lines - The Reform and Re organization


The Regiment has come a long way from the Azad Kashmir Regular Force; a band of armless volunteers self raised and self-organized to what is now a formidable fighting force. The journey has been one of many ups and downs but the Regiment has braved all such obstacles with their characteristic skill and determination.



The Standard of Order at its Conception

Towards the end of September 1947, local ex-servicemen from the Imperial Indian Army and civilian volunteers formed revolutionary groups of freedom-fighters of varying strength. These were mostly platoon/company size groups under local leaders who had raised them in their respective areas of domicile. Their initial arms were either Darra made or won from the enemy. Some of the initial operations against the State Army were carried out in various parts of Poonch. The first of such, on 1st October, 1947. Soon the revolution had spread to all parts of the State.


Formation of the Forces Headquarters

Soon after the initial gains, the pressure from the Bulwark of the Indian Army had gained momentum throughout the theater of war. To face this challenge, a proper coordination and cohesion was necessary. A High Command called the Forces Headquarters of the Azad Kashmir Regular Forces (FHQ AKRF) was set up in the first week of November 1947 by the freedom fighters. Its starting objectives were command and control, arrangement of reinforcements, war material and other essential provisions. The lone command lasted till 30th November, 1947.


From Armless Revolutionaries to the battle units of AKRF

FHQ AKRF had foresight of the impending reality, a protracted war in the offing. A challenge that had to be won. For this to happen, the irregular freedom fighters were organized and structured into rudimentary battalions by 1st December, 1947. The First 21 units of the AKRF (now AK Regiment) were thus born. The whole group, was named "The Azad Kashmir Regular Forces (AKRF)". While individual units were named regionally. Some of the famous ones being:

• 1st Sudhnuti,
• 1st Bagh,
• 2nd Muzaffarabad,
• 7th Bhimber,
• 10th Kotli,
• 14th Rajauri,
• 15th Jammu Battalions and so on.

The intrinsic dynamic characteristic of such an organization was therefore the fact that, as the war prolonged and the Indian Army's build-up increased, fresh raising in the AKRF continued.


AKRF to AK Regiment

AKRF underwent a process of continual reorganizations through out the years, 1948, 1949, 1956, 1957, 1960 and 1961 but remained more or less, a territorial Force. In light of its previous successes and achievements, a comprehensive review of the structure and organization of the AKRF was carried out in 1970-71. The Force was re-designated as the Azad Kashmir Regiment and its Infantry Battalions were brought on Standard Tables of Organization and Equipment with effect from 20th September, 1971. This was followed by their rotation in all parts of the Country.


Previous colonel commandants of the regiment include:

• Maj General Sardar Muhammad Anwar Khan (the former President of Azad Kashmir) and
• Lt General Javed Hassan, (who as Maj Gen commanded the Force Command Northern Areas (FCNA) during the 1999 Kargil War and later served as the commander XXX Corps, Gujranwala).

The current Colonel Commandant is Maj Gen Mukhtar Ahmed who took over on 28 September, 2007.

In wartime operations, the AKRF was part of the Order of Battle of the Pakistan Army, and all its battalions were part of the 12th Infantry Division (Pakistan) that defended Azad Kashmir.

Azad Kashmir Regimental Centre

The Azad Kashmir Regimental Centre is the Army Recruitment Centre of Azad Kashmir Regiment of the Pakistan Army, located at Mansar.


Operational History

The Azad Kashmir Regular Forces fought brilliantly in the 1971 war and then in 1972 when the 9th Azad Kashmir Battalion defended Chakpatra and Leepa Valley from a much more vast Indian force composed of several regular battalions. Upon this, the Pakistan Army honoured the AKRF by absorbing it into its own ranks and by giving it the status of a Regular Line Infantry Regiment. The AKRF thus became the Azad Kashmir Regiment.

Now battalions of the Azad Kashmir Regiment are stationed all over Pakistan, and have fought in far away places such as Somalia, as part of the United Nations contingent in that country.


Gems of Bravery

Naik Saif Ali Janjua

Naik Saif Ali Janjua, Azad Kashmir Regiment (Was awarded Hilal-e-Kashmir - an equivalent to Nishan-i-Haider)
Date of Shahadat : 26th April 1948


=====================================
References:

http://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/AWPReview/TextContent.aspx?pId=159&rnd=460#Reorganizations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azad_Kashmir_Regiment
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/pakistan/rgt-ak.htm
http://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/AWPReview/TextContent.aspx?pId=173
http://www.jarralrajput.com/
http://fun4pakistan.blogspot.com/2009/03/some-good-stills-from-pakistan-day.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/29356-fallen-comrades.html

 

[LaBong]

But is the author not arguing that the 'popularity of the Army' is somehow intertwined with a Punjabi majority Army - in which case pointing out he changing demographics of the military debunk the authors premise, since the Army demographics now largely follow the national demographics.

BTW, whether you consider the Mirpuris to be culturally Punjabi or not (and you have not yet illustrated how many of the 9% recruits from Kashmir and GB are Mirpuris or Punjabis), the population of Kashmir is not included in the census (AFAIK) - if it was, then that would change the overall demographic numbers, wouldn't it?

Punjabis are still single greatest group in army at 55 percent, now before you go defensive let me assure you that over representation of punjabis isn't the topic in hand nor am I trying to prove other ethnicities are somehow discriminated, like you said punjabis can't just drown in the indus ; as they constitute the majority of population, there representation in the army should be likewise!

Since we have reached a common ground here, let's move on to what the article actually says - partition and corresponding distabilization of punjab's society.

 

[LaBong]

What 'equilibrium' is supposedly lacking in Punjab vs Sindh?

Lack of middle/business class and fudalist political system, IMO. But I'd still wait for the second issue.

 

[LaBong]

You remind me of a story a friend once SMSed me, i have kept it in my inbox just for the guys like yourself:

A very rich man went 2 a vilage with his son. to show him HOW POOR CAN PEOPLE B.
On return, father askd "WHAT DID U LEARN?"
Son replied,
"We have no cattles but THEY HAVE 4."
"We have a swiming pool whch is quite big but THEY HAVE A LAKE & ITS END CAN'T BE FOUND."
"Our garden has imported lamps but THEY HAVE A SKY FULL OF STARS."
"Our courtyard ends after few yards but THEY HAVE THE WHOLE WORLD AHEAD TO PLAY.
THANKS DADY FOR SHOWING ME HOW POOR WE R!

It is said that one cannot do ANYTHING about the following kind of people (i am sure you'll agree):

1- Jo admi apkay moo per jhoot bol day (the one who can lie right at your face)

2- Jo nehar/darya k dosray paar say apko apna **** nikal k dikha k bhag jaye (the one who swings his dick at you while standing on the other bank of a river/canal)

3- Pessimists

4- Hatermongers/Prejudiced Rascals

Please see, where do you fit in?



So you agree that Sindhis/Balochis dont really want to join the military rather like to opr for other professions, right?

This was exactly what i was going to say when you started acting like a troll and made me post my 'knowledge' about them.

So i was saying that i have been part of the recruitment drive for Balochis, and man that was one thankless job! You just cant think what all we did to 'motivate' our Balochi brethren to join the Army. Infact i was part of the team who was visiting various cantts in Balochistan where the units had recruited the Balochi youth, to find out if the units have met the bare minimum criteria for recruitment (as we have already relaxed the standards for them quite a bit). Now in the areas (in Balochistan) where there was the availability of some kind of natural resource (gas, minerals - limestone, graphite etc, coal, copper, marble etc), the turnout of youth for recruitment was the lowest.

For instance, in the place (no names because it gives of the locations) there was such abundance of limestone and graphite that people were digging it out with their bare hands!!!!!!!!!!!! They had made boundary walls around that hole/well and had actually built their homes around it - they were living in it. No they each household used to send off atleast 3-4 truck load of limestone/graphite every day. This coupled with no Tax deduction, no development fee, no levy for Dept of Mines and Minerals etc was like each of them have their own gold mine!

Now tell me, would these guys ever come towards finding a 'job'?

Second, i dont know if you know Balochs nd Pathans, but i know them inside out. Let's talk about Pathans (about half of thr population of Balochistan is Pathan). i know Pathans who HATE jobs! i mean they would polish other people's shoes on the streets but would NOT like work "under' some boss (job)! They will have a Khokha of Niswar at a Godforsaken place where their sale would be zero, but they will not even work for the NGOs or the UN Programs (working there for their betterment and paying them mind blowing salaries), that's how Balochistan is, and you expect them to join the Army?

Third, just try to visit an Army Recruitment center in Sargodha, Multan, Lahore, Peshawar, Kohat, Hyderabad, Karachi etc, you will find youngsters reaching the recruitment centers DAYS before the opening with all the bedding, pillows and stuff!! They would sleep outside the centers, damn it! So that they can get into that 'queue' earlier than other guys - that's the kind of fierce competition out there to join the military, butwe dont find such zeal in Balochistan.

It's only since the last 1o years (since the Army began a special effort to recruit Balochis) that they have started coming towards this profession. This is because, Balochistanis (not Balochis - tanis include all the ethnicities in Balochistan) as a sub-nation dont like to stay 'away' from their homes, yes their mud huts and caves. They would not like to spend nights 'out' of their houses. Come what may, they would prefer to starve rather than go and serve at Lahore or Karachi or even Quetta. This is primrily because 1) they have some kind of income generation system (though very poor) in the vicinity of their villages, like shepparding, goats/lambs, mining, farming etc or the least, they being a tough lot, dont require much comfort, no electricity, no gas, they would just grow 3-4 acres of wheat, keep livestock (mostly lambs), cut trees for fuel/heating/cooking and that's it. In short, its very difficult to get them out of their 'world' which they feel is filled with harmony and stuff.

We had to 'beg' them to join the military, they resisted like hell at first, yound boys would tell me; oye laka, tum suna hai seesha (glass) or choona (limestone) mix kar k pilata hai logo training k doran (you guys make recruits eat broken glass mixed with limestone during training to make them tough), and i was like, damn, even the SSG dont train like this.

So this is just one example that how their minds were far 'away' from 'jobs' especially a tough one like the military.

Also they being a proud cult, dont like to be ordered around, the basic stuff in any military, it took alot of effort to get them to understand that there is a difference between discipline and people ordering you around.

And now when they are aware that the military 'job' do not 'bite', they have started joining the military in flocks.

It's been like 8, 6 may be 7 years since i left Balochistan (my posting) and i still receive calls from guys who i dont even know asking me for safarish them into the Army!!! And my first reply ALWAYS is, why the heck you didnt join when we were 'begging' you??!! And their reply ALWAYS is; 'Sir galati hogaya'

Now what do you want? That the Balochis and Sindhis (oh and yes i have a similar story regarding the Sindhis also) should fill up the Army over night (withing 2-3 years ) or as Agno said, should the Punajbis drown themselves in Indus to let their Balochi and Sindhi brothers take their place in the Army?

SO, like i said, try to find the category you fit in among the sampling i have done above.


You dont even know a shyt about how many Mirpurs are there inside Pakistan and you are trying to take a guess!

We'll talk again when you would understand what i was trying to say here.

That's a long entertaining rant and I feel like headbutting my workstation!

Anyway thanks for articulating in your patent impeccable way what I'm saying from the very start, that tribe, ethnicity, caste etc have a major effect at how you choose your profession. I hope developero would pay a heed.

Now one can only hope that you would stop clutching the straw of NLI, as over representation of punjabis isn't the issue here, them being majority is.

 

[Areesh]

Now one can only hope that you would stop clutching the straw of NLI, as over representation of punjabis isn't the issue here, them being majority is.

You are being stubborn to the extent of pathetic troll. This issue has been discussed enough and Punjabi's being majority in PA isn't an issue. Period.

 

[Jango]

he has 4000+ posts in about a year, so he does like to troll!!!