Why Pak army not interested in largest wheeled IFV and APC

[touqeer haq]

But still we have enough money to buy stupid LY 80 is same range of FM 90 And Spada 2000 important is we lack vision we don't have common sense what is important
Putting all eggs on one pot is stupidity and this is what armed forces do

So we are saying ppl who are running armed forces are stupid or not qualified to take decisions. My friend what goes behind closed doors no one knows, what deals going on, what are the issues. We just comment and present wish list, need to think a bit more, they are qualified they know about their stuff nd got vision just they can't share on pakistan defence .

 

[touqeer haq]

Well I respect armed forces infact I love them and trust with my life on them but this know all and perfect mentality needs to be changed ... they are also human and are prone to error ... if thats not the case then east pakistan is missing from world map ...

So while I support armed forces but i criticise both armed forces and civilian leadership to not to buy potent SAM and fighter aircraft ..

When I hear issue of money I wonder why after looting all the money Zardari, asim, NS, Sharjeel Memon, Ishaaq Daar are enjoying luxury life while convoy of miliatry and civilian elites are bigger than the the fleet of our soldiers fighting with enemies ...

Brother we need to support armed forces but do not stop questioning them for improvements...

I totally agree with you we should ask questions. But they are barely holding things together, despite politicians tryna destroy us. Unless until political system is not changed nothing will change. Forces cnt fight on every front, as a nation we should give them space, which we do. Sometimes they have to make tough calls.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well I saw recently a documentary , and saw some larger truck vehicles had a horrible time turning corners on Pakistani Landescape hmm wonder if it is due to that reason

Big wheelers are always great in desert zones or open terrain

 

[A.Muqeet khan]

We abandoned heavy armour back in the 70s just keeping a token force of around 300 mbts. Primary attack and logistics and very long range required that we move to wheeled IFVs which were mineproof and yet be able to take on an tank. Hence Rooikat, Mambas, Buffels, Casspirs and Ratels formed the backbone of any attack configuration; not a single mbt was used on the front lines in angola as it was deemed useless and our doctrine is on fast moving configurations with equivalent firepower at huge ranges e.g. 1100km+. Crossing Namibia alone is over 1800km. Tracked vehicles for our environment have no value and slow down any operational capability.

reading you is always a treat.

 

[Zarvan]

Well latest report suggest that Pakistanis buying these

 

[Arsalan]

We surely will procure some wheeled APC/IFV in near future. The operation in Waziristan and other places against the TTP have shown our military that wheeled APC/IFVs are worth it. Very mobile, equally protected and effective, delivering the lethal blow at the required place. However considering our terrain, tracked APC/IFVs will remain the main stay of our mechanized forces along with MBTs. The wheeled ones will come in relative lower numbers. 250-300 units may be? No exact figure can be quoted right now as presently we are only considering our options.

 

[Zarvan]

We surely will procure some wheeled APC/IFV in near future. The operation in Waziristan and other places against the TTP have shown our military that wheeled APC/IFVs are worth it. Very mobile, equally protected and effective, delivering the lethal blow at the required place. However considering our terrain, tracked APC/IFVs will remain the main stay of our mechanized forces along with MBTs. The wheeled ones will come in relative lower numbers. 250-300 units may be? No exact figure can be quoted right now as presently we are only considering our options.

Any idea which other 8 X 8 are under trials or were under trials other than PARS 8 X 8

 

[Arsalan]

Any idea which other 8 X 8 are under trials or were under trials other than PARS 8 X 8

PARS 8x8 was not in Pakistan either. As i said, options are being "looked at" as far as i know and that is it. I never mentioned actual "Trials" in Pakistan.

 

[XDescendantX]

Nice setup to carry 10 Soldiers

Quick speed arrival of 5,000-10,000 APC should help fight Terrorism

Bro the Hamza 8x8 can carry 14 personnel not 10.

Any idea which other 8 X 8 are under trials or were under trials other than PARS 8 X 8

Norinco VP10 8x8?

My list for the battlefield/open terrain
Hamza 8x8: 1,000-10,000
Pars 8x8: 100-250
Pars 6x6: 100-250
VP10 8x8: 100-500

 

[Arsalan]

Just to point out, Blitzkrieg Defense Solutions MCV, Hamza is a very interesting option. There might not be enough $$ to make for the authorities but performance and specification wise it fill in the two roles (both of which we are actively pursuing) of an AFV/APC as well as MRAP vehicle. Will be a tragedy if these are not inducted in decent numbers. I will even promote that just to support our private sector so more and more goods start coming from that route.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Just to point out, Blitzkrieg Defense Solutions MCV, Hamza is a very interesting option. There might not be enough $$ to make for the authorities but performance and specification wise it fill in the two roles (both of which we are actively pursuing) of an AFV/APC as well as MRAP vehicle. Will be a tragedy if these are not inducted in decent numbers. I will even promote that just to support our private sector so more and more goods start coming from that route.

It looked like a good design, but the design to not back it could have come from several factors (besides the usual culprits): a saturated market with many similar - and potentially more affordable - options, and deferring the AFV program a few more years.

In terms of options, we have the Otokar Arma, FNSS Pars, Paramount Mbombe 8, Denel OMC RG41, NORINCO VN1 and Yugoimport-SDPR Lazar, to name a few. Interestingly, there isn't a lot of variance in cost between them either: UAE could be getting each Rabdan AFV (custom Arma) for $1.64m (link), while Thailand is getting each VN1 from China for $1.7m (link).

 

[Arsalan]

It looked like a good design, but the design to not back it could have come from several factors (besides the usual culprits): a saturated market with many similar - and potentially more affordable - options, and deferring the AFV program a few more years.

In terms of options, we have the Otokar Arma, FNSS Pars, Paramount Mbombe 8, Denel OMC RG41, NORINCO VN1 and Yugoimport-SDPR Lazar, to name a few. Interestingly, there isn't a lot of variance in cost between them either: UAE could be getting each Rabdan AFV (custom Arma) for $1.64m (link), while Thailand is getting each VN1 from China for $1.7m (link).

Sure there are plenty of good options out there. However investing in the home grown solution, even if in smaller number and not buying the whole set required from this one company, will help develop a local base (and more importantly) in private sector. These kinds of requirments should be met from within the country. Encouraging such efforts is necesary.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Sure there are plenty of good options out there. However investing in the home grown solution, even if in smaller number and not buying the whole set required from this one company, will help develop a local base (and more importantly) in private sector. These kinds of requirments should be met from within the country. Encouraging such efforts is necesary.

Domestic efforts should be a planned initiative, one with close coordination and input from the Army. Unfortunately, this requires interest all around, and a drive to see it happen in the best possible form. I don't think the overall culture (shaping armed forces and private sector choices) is there yet, but we might see it emerge in the 2020s - e.g. Kamra Aviation City.

 

[Arsalan]

Domestic efforts should be a planned initiative, one with close coordination and input from the Army. Unfortunately, this requires interest all around, and a drive to see it happen in the best possible form. I don't think the overall culture (shaping armed forces and private sector choices) is there yet, but we might see it emerge in the 2020s - e.g. Kamra Aviation City.

Exactly. Steps should be taken to get there, to a point where our orivate secotor can start working in closer coordination with military forces and meet a major part of our hardware needs donestically. Soecially in army, a vast number of there equipment can and should be produced locally with more and more involvement of orivate sector.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

At this stage, I'd try to convince the Army to commission the design, development and production of a new 4x4 general utility vehicle for logistics and duties. It should set a very specific technical requirement, and point to existing programs as examples - e.g. NIMR Ajban.

Float the requirement to 2-3 entities, e.g. HIT, Cavalier, and another, and get them to compete to come up with a platform meeting the technical requirements and local industry work share. Heck, if 12,000 vehicles are needed, you might end up with multiple winners.