Why not GOP or WE offically announce US is our Real Enemy ?

[Rank]

Stealth. I will will not comment on the topic as I am Indian and will leave the thread for you and your "COUNTRY FELLOW" to discuss. Just one question though. Why does your command of the english language and your writing style change in different posts or threads with your nickname? Are there multiple people posting using your nickname or are you multiple personalitied ?

First of all i am not INDIAN, who use multiple IDs on defencepk. Admins knows very well.

back to the topic.
Thanks,

 

[Faruqi]

We will not announce the US as our real enemy because they are NOT our real enemy for the time being. We have issues with them, but that is no reason to not accept their help in defeating the enemy within. First we secure our own land then we worry about foreign policy. For now the US is our strategic ally.

 

[MilesTogo]

You got it right.

TTP are NOT our own people and that fight must not be jeopardize with any such nonsense , they are a proxy group that MUST be eliminated , no question about it!

All the while its important to understand how our religoin is being used against us to kill us and by whom!

Who could have thought in Pakistan that 'Islam' itself will be used against Pakistan to destroy all that it has achieved.

Indeed a very diabolical shceme!

 

[PlanetWarrior]

First of all i am not INDIAN, who use multiple IDs on defencepk. Admins knows very well.

back to the topic.
Thanks,

And I am not Pakistani who has multiple ids with one nickname. But thanks for clearing up the issue

 

[faisal4pro]

This is an indirect war between those that conform to the zionist-backed-american-led new world order and those that DONT conform to their demonic world view.

The Pakistani State is the KEY!

These SOBs know that NUKES still remain a game-changer in any battle should it ever get to that.

TTP, Al-Qaeda and an assortment of other groups are just patsy proxies that are mere pawns in the bigger game.

well said brother!

totally agree to u!

our rulers cant do anything!

 

[AstanoshKhan]

US is being dragged into this mess by that merciless and illegal state of Israel and we have already excluded them out of our passport.

Mossad's motive is; By way of deception, thou shall we do war.

 

[na'am ana wahabi]

Oh give me a break- The Pakistan Army is fighting people who are blowing all over the cities in Pakistan.So they are fighting Pakistan's Enemey.

It depends who you ask.

Well yes. Pakistans enemy too. Although the enmity came about after Musharaf's opression of his people and support of America in the war of terror against the Afghan people. Obama pledged in his election campaign to take the war to Pakistan tribal areas.

I am not making this up. It is true.

Obama might send troops to Pakistan - Barack Obama News- msnbc.com

The secular aspirations of the present regime have not helped the situation much. It is completely natural for Muslims to fight back and demand shariah in the face of secularisation of its society. Pakistan was founded on Islamic ideals, remember.

 

[The Patriot]

This US card is being used by JI, JUI and Taliban alike to get moral grounds for their political agendas. many of our so called elite are also falling for it. US bashing in Pakistan has become a norm, or rather a test of loyalty. Even kids who don't know anything talk about the bad intentions of the US. Do you think if the US had not attacked Afghanistan, religious extremists, al Qaeda, Taliban would have not targeted Pakistan either militarily or ideologically. if i minus US from equation, i would be seeing Pakistan either completely in control of religious lunatics or at war with the world.

 

[niaz]

This topic underlines our national tragedy. We have been taking aid from the USA since early 50’s but consider US our real enemy. This attitude indicates irrational thinking on a national scale and susceptibility to the religious parties’ propaganda. Our gullible Joe public has no idea where our national interest truly lies.

How many times one has to repeat that no one is any one’s eternal friend or eternal enemy. No country will help your country because of goodness of their heart.

All pacts and aid packages are meant to enhance the donor country’s influence in that region thus advancing that country’s interest. This has been true since the concept of city states developed some three thousand years ago. Any one who believes otherwise is either extremely naïve or living in cuckoo land.

To examine who is our real enemy one has to evaluate the past record. Let us examine who has been our friend?

China

China has always helped us in the past primarily because of its rivalry with India and also because of her aspirations of becoming a super power. In other words our interests have never been on collision course. If that were to happen, I am certain that China will also act as any other country.

USA.

US have been the main aid provider for most of the 6o years since independence. However the relationship has been stormy. US single handedly armed the entire PA armed forces until 1965. Justification being that it was for fighting Communism. However, when Pakistan used this in initiating and fighting 1965 war, US cut off the supplies making all of us very angry. Please tell me did US gave all the F-86’s, Patton tanks, naval warships including the Ghazi submarine so that we could fight India?

The same thing happened in the Afghan war. As long as it served US interests US ignored our nuclear program and provided us military hardware including F-16, when Zia defied US at the Geneva peace talks with Russia, our relationship soured again. This has been repeated in the current WOT. Just because US gives more importance to India doesnot make US our enemy.


Russia:

Russia has been a friend with India for a very long time. India signed a friendship treaty with Russia before attacking Pakistan in 1971. However few Pakistanis hate Russia whereas the hatred towards US has no limit.

Iran:

Shah of Iran had ambitions of becoming the leader of the Muslim world and becoming dominant power in the region. Therefore they helped us in 1965 war and even gave us $500-million grant in the aftermath of 1971 war. However because the revolutionary Iran considers us a US ally and because we supported Saudi Arabia in the Sunni/Shia proxy war; our relations with Iran are neutral at best whereas India has excellent relations with Iran.

India:

This country has been our arch enemy since the day Pakistan was created. Their acts started with delaying and blocking payments and transfer of assets that fell due to Pakistan, followed up by annexing Hyderabad, Junagadh, Manwadar and most of all Kashmir. In 1971 they split us in two. We have fought three wars, four if you count Kargil, against India. India’s cold start doctrine has been developed specifically to destroy Pakistan before we had a chance to deploy nuclear weapons.

I have met more Afghans including Afghan Pashtuns who hate Pakistan more than any American that I have ever chanced to meet. A Gilzai Afghan who was a student of University College London in the 60's used to distribute pamphlets stating that Peshawar was winter capital of Afghanistan until 1820’s and that it should be returned to the Afghans. But Afghans are our brothers!

United States against all Muslims is also a misconception. Some in US (such as neo cons) and pro Israel lobby may think so, but not the country as a whole. US has helped Bosnia against Christian Serbs. Have people forgotten that the fact that Suez Canal had been captured by UK and France in 1956? It was only because of US that despite their victory in the war, UK & France were compelled to give Suez Canal back to Egypt.

Would you rather have the butcher Saddam gobble up Kuwait and may be Saudi Arabia also?

It is only in Arabs versus Israel conflict that US has demonstrated unstinting support of the zionists.

I am not saying that we should be eternally bound to the US for giving us scores of billions in aid during the last 60 years, but at least we should not be ungrateful cads. US may be only a fair-weather friend but our real enemy? Certainly not. This title has only one candidate, our erstwhile Eastern neighbor.

 

[Slides]

To thread starter: Please don't delude yourself by buying into Imran Khan/Jamat propaganda that home grown jihadis are not a problem for Pakistan and US is the enemy.

All those people who fought in Kashmir or Afghanistan and we cheered on saw bloods and guts first hand and that changed their mentality combined with extremist Salafist teachings of people like Syed Qutb of Egypt. They now believe that Pakistan is Dar-ul-Hub and all Pakistanis are munafiq and living under a kafir state and worthy of death only. This is largely a home grown disease, but naive Pakistanis like you are unable to see this reality, which is why you become obsessed with the US.

 

[Spring Onion]

US presence in any region viz viz military misadventurism is harmful for anyone.

Hence US is nobodies' friend when it comes to own interests and i feel there is no need to declare US as our enemy.

I feel gaurding our interests should be the prime goal. If its go smoothly by allying with US then it should be done but if its not then a clever and wise policy is needed to keep the US at bay instead of declaring it as our enemy.

 

[pak-marine]

It depends who you ask.

Well yes. Pakistans enemy too. Although the enmity came about after Musharaf's opression of his people and support of America in the war of terror against the Afghan people. Obama pledged in his election campaign to take the war to Pakistan tribal areas.

ok so lets assume for a sec Musharaf was a opressor and he allowed army to kill pakistanis even though i stil fail to understand what gives these morons the right to blow up hundreds of Pakistanis in sucide missions what have they got to do with all this.

The secular aspirations of the present regime have not helped the situation much. It is completely natural for Muslims to fight back and demand shariah in the face of secularisation of its society. Pakistan was founded on Islamic ideals, remember

FYI its helping very much and PA is after them to exterminate their existence from the face of this planet there is a tough fight but we will win InshAllah , Pakistans is a pro Islamic and pro democratic country if you see during last 30years civilians have managed to remove dictators from the scene various time and soon we will have the normality.

 

[na'am ana wahabi]

ok so lets assume for a sec Musharaf was a opressor and he allowed army to kill pakistanis even though i stil fail to understand what gives these morons the right to blow up hundreds of Pakistanis in sucide missions what have they got to do with all this.

The secular aspirations of the present regime have not helped the situation much. It is completely natural for Muslims to fight back and demand shariah in the face of secularisation of its society. Pakistan was founded on Islamic ideals, remember

FYI its helping very much and PA is after them to exterminate their existence from the face of this planet there is a tough fight but we will win InshAllah , Pakistans is a pro Islamic and pro democratic country if you see during last 30years civilians have managed to remove dictators from the scene various time and soon we will have the normality.

Pro Islamic and Pro Democratic at the same time? Quite an oxymoron in my opinion.

What is your understanding of an Islamic system of governance and also of a Democratice system of governance.

I am quite interested in what you have to say.

 

[rajeev]

This topic underlines our national tragedy. We have been taking aid from the USA since early 50’s but consider US our real enemy. This attitude indicates irrational thinking on a national scale and susceptibility to the religious parties’ propaganda. Our gullible Joe public has no idea where our national interest truly lies.

How many times one has to repeat that no one is any one’s eternal friend or eternal enemy. No country will help your country because of goodness of their heart.

All pacts and aid packages are meant to enhance the donor country’s influence in that region thus advancing that country’s interest. This has been true since the concept of city states developed some three thousand years ago. Any one who believes otherwise is either extremely naïve or living in cuckoo land.

To examine who is our real enemy one has to evaluate the past record. Let us examine who has been our friend?

China

China has always helped us in the past primarily because of its rivalry with India and also because of her aspirations of becoming a super power. In other words our interests have never been on collision course. If that were to happen, I am certain that China will also act as any other country.

USA.

US have been the main aid provider for most of the 6o years since independence. However the relationship has been stormy. US single handedly armed the entire PA armed forces until 1965. Justification being that it was for fighting Communism. However, when Pakistan used this in initiating and fighting 1965 war, US cut off the supplies making all of us very angry. Please tell me did US gave all the F-86’s, Patton tanks, naval warships including the Ghazi submarine so that we could fight India?

The same thing happened in the Afghan war. As long as it served US interests US ignored our nuclear program and provided us military hardware including F-16, when Zia defied US at the Geneva peace talks with Russia, our relationship soured again. This has been repeated in the current WOT. Just because US gives more importance to India doesnot make US our enemy.


Russia:

Russia has been a friend with India for a very long time. India signed a friendship treaty with Russia before attacking Pakistan in 1971. However few Pakistanis hate Russia whereas the hatred towards US has no limit.

Iran:

Shah of Iran had ambitions of becoming the leader of the Muslim world and becoming dominant power in the region. Therefore they helped us in 1965 war and even gave us $500-million grant in the aftermath of 1971 war. However because the revolutionary Iran considers us a US ally and because we supported Saudi Arabia in the Sunni/Shia proxy war; our relations with Iran are neutral at best whereas India has excellent relations with Iran.

India:

This country has been our arch enemy since the day Pakistan was created. Their acts started with delaying and blocking payments and transfer of assets that fell due to Pakistan, followed up by annexing Hyderabad, Junagadh, Manwadar and most of all Kashmir. In 1971 they split us in two. We have fought three wars, four if you count Kargil, against India. India’s cold start doctrine has been developed specifically to destroy Pakistan before we had a chance to deploy nuclear weapons.

I have met more Afghans including Afghan Pashtuns who hate Pakistan more than any American that I have ever chanced to meet. A Gilzai Afghan who was a student of University College London in the 60's used to distribute pamphlets stating that Peshawar was winter capital of Afghanistan until 1820’s and that it should be returned to the Afghans. But Afghans are our brothers!

United States against all Muslims is also a misconception. Some in US (such as neo cons) and pro Israel lobby may think so, but not the country as a whole. US has helped Bosnia against Christian Serbs. Have people forgotten that the fact that Suez Canal had been captured by UK and France in 1956? It was only because of US that despite their victory in the war, UK & France were compelled to give Suez Canal back to Egypt.

Would you rather have the butcher Saddam gobble up Kuwait and may be Saudi Arabia also?

It is only in Arabs versus Israel conflict that US has demonstrated unstinting support of the zionists.

I am not saying that we should be eternally bound to the US for giving us scores of billions in aid during the last 60 years, but at least we should not be ungrateful cads. US may be only a fair-weather friend but our real enemy? Certainly not. This title has only one candidate, our erstwhile Eastern neighbor.

Thanks niaz. Atleast some one in Pakistan is calling out and saying the truth.

I think religious doctrine and sense of brotherhood "just because some one is a Muslim" is cause of all the problems.

If one were to keep aside the Muslim identity to themselves and not mix up with the religious aspect into society and policies in the matter of the country, Pakistan will prosper.

Now, when I look back, I think Pakistan's joining Afghan war in 1980 was a big mistake. Islamic radicals are let loose and now they are biting the hand which fed them!

 

[TruthSeeker]

It is totally ridiculous for any Pakistani to believe that the USA is Pakistan's enemy. The USA wants Pakistan to succeed as a representative democratic republic more than any other nation in this world wants that, save Pakistan itself. Oh, maybe that's the rub, some Pakistani's (like Stealth?) are the enemies of representative democracy and, therefore, see the USA as the enemy because of its support for what they hate. Get real. The only reason that you think China is a better friend is because China has never asked anything of you. Nor has it helped you to develop economically or in your present fight with your terrorist brethren. Let's face it, China likes Pakistan to have autocrats or charlatans in charge, they are easy for China to understand and deal with because they are just like them. The good old USA is now, and can be in the future, the best friend Pakistan has in this world. Be rational.