Why not GOP or WE offically announce US is our Real Enemy ?

[SSGPA1]

We are the real enemy of ourselves

US or any country will do what it deems beneficial to its objectives. Pakistan has failed to counter threats and have failed to negotiate anything beneficial for itself so it is not entirely someone else's fault.

No one have asked us to vote for the same fuedal lords and corrupt politicians over and over again and no one asked us to come out in streets to distribute sweets after a military take over.

We need to have strong institutions backed by a unified nation to dictate our internal and external policies.

 

[oceanx]

Thanks for the analysis. Some are labeled "think tanks" for a reason. Given Pakistan's unique history and background, it is natural, as I observed here on this forum, to wonder out loud "who my friends are". However, given Pakistan's size and position today, IMHO, the more relevant question should be: Who are my partners?

China has always helped us in the past primarily because of its rivalry with India and also because of her aspirations of becoming a super power. In other words our interests have never been on collision course. If that were to happen, I am certain that China will also act as any other country.

PRC has always helped Pakistan because Pak has always helped PRC, and at a time when PRC as a fledgling nation had very few "friends", and very little means to "buy" any friendship.

In addition, the friendship rests in large part on a bargain struck directly with the CCP itself. I don't hide my disdain for the CCP and many of its policies. But it's sober to realize that truly befriending the CCP is akin to gaining the hearts of the mafia - if done right, the "loyalty bonus" will dwarf anything you can get from the hoity-toity "city hall".

On that, certain strategic assets come to mind - the kind that a "holier-than-thou" and "less rogue" entity will never clear the cheque for.

Therefore, the track-record itself speaks for the value of the "partnership". It may not have been the most "moral" pact, but it can surely be an "honourable" pact.

However, here is an important caveat - familiarity breeds contempt and a little distance apart engenders mutual respect. It's my observation that no relationship lasts amicably for long if one side is perceived to be a "client" state - and all the worse if there is "excessive" cultural familiarity.

This might just be simple psychology and a statement on human nature. But certainly NK and Vientnam vis-a-vis PRC come to bear out the veracity of this observation.

I have met more Afghans including Afghan Pashtuns who hate Pakistan more than any American that I have ever chanced to meet. A Gilzai Afghan who was a student of University College London in the 60's used to distribute pamphlets stating that Peshawar was winter capital of Afghanistan until 1820’s and that it should be returned to the Afghans. But Afghans are our brothers!

One of the few Afghans I met in Ontario used to rail against the "Indians" to me. But unlike the Tamils who also railed against the "Indians", he actually meant "Pakistanis" when clarified. And finally he made it "clear" to a confused me: "Indians and Pakistanis are all the same ..."

And if you a Cambodian, it probably doesn't really matter whether the ones who brought Pol-Pot to you were "Chinese" or "Vietnamese", or "Americans" ... All it matters was somebody brought the Khmer Rouge on you.

United States against all Muslims is also a misconception. Some in US (such as neo cons) and pro Israel lobby may think so, but not the country as a whole. US has helped Bosnia against Christian Serbs. Have people forgotten that the fact that Suez Canal had been captured by UK and France in 1956? It was only because of US that despite their victory in the war, UK & France were compelled to give Suez Canal back to Egypt.

Would you rather have the butcher Saddam gobble up Kuwait and may be Saudi Arabia also?

It is only in Arabs versus Israel conflict that US has demonstrated unstinting support of the zionists.

Kudos to the Think Tank for expressing a cogent set of thoughts without once resorting to "weasel words". If I may point out - there seems to be a good few around here who throw around words such as "Jews" in its most undistinguished form as if this qualifies them membership at some sort of "awakening" club ...

Use the word "Likudnik" when Likud is in the news. Use the word "neo-cons" when the context calls for neo-cons. Identify Israelis if if it's Israelis you wish to identify.

Blame the Zionists by all means - but the Partition still pre-dated their "victory". IMHO, certain verbatim neither bolsters legitimacy to one's argument, nor brings respectability to the one making it. Without going on a moral tangent too far - it simply hinders Pakistan's cause.

Fortunately, this applies to a comparatively few.

Before I get carried away with removing the "splinter in a brother's eye", let me not fail to acknowledge some major "beams in my own" ... All in all, I have no doubt learned a great deal from this forum and its members over this past month.

Regards,

 

[pakdefender]

It is totally ridiculous for any Pakistani to believe that the USA is Pakistan's enemy. The USA wants Pakistan to succeed as a representative democratic republic more than any other nation in this world wants that, save Pakistan itself. Oh, maybe that's the rub, some Pakistani's (like Stealth?) are the enemies of representative democracy and, therefore, see the USA as the enemy because of its support for what they hate. Get real. The only reason that you think China is a better friend is because China has never asked anything of you. Nor has it helped you to develop economically or in your present fight with your terrorist brethren. Let's face it, China likes Pakistan to have autocrats or charlatans in charge, they are easy for China to understand and deal with because they are just like them. The good old USA is now, and can be in the future, the best friend Pakistan has in this world. Be rational.

Truth be told ( should you really want to seek it ).The mentality behind these type of sentences is among the main reasons why the United States is disliked by many in Pakistan.

 

[zraver]

Mr we never seee such Islamic extremist who going into the streets and sucide attacks on civilians never see such Islamic extremist who fight with ARMY (How thy got such Heavy weapons) ?? before post any comment read my whole paragraph carefully.

Yes you did, GoP was sending them into Kashmir and Arabs who fought the Soviets stayed in Pakistan or Afghanistan along the borde rint eht ribal areas and via AQ helped the madrassa students known as the Taliban overrun most of A-stan. While most Pashtuns were not suicide bombers before, the use of suicide bombers by the Pashtuns was not unknown. In particular the day before 9-11 AQ sent a suicide team to kill the leader of the Northern Alliance in order to help the Taliban.

The big problem is not the US, its the the fact that since independence the GoP has not moved to secure the tribal areas. They left the tribal structure in place under nominal Pakistani suzerainty. This was fine for awhile, but once islamic radicalization arrived it became a liability. over the last 30 years the jihadist have been steeping into tribal society, living among it, recruiting from it, and learning its strengths and weaknesses.

The TTP did not spring fully formed from the womb, its been growign for years, and once it decided to make its play the power brokers knew who to pressure, who to buy and who to kill in order to place themselves at the top. Aided in part by parts of the GoP who felt it could use them for its own ends. The problem is of course is the jihadist by what ever stripe do not believe in secular government except as a means to an end. As soon as the GoP does something they do not like, the GoP becomes a target.

As does any non-Pashtun like say your average Punjabi commuting to work only to be killed in a bomb blast. One of the great failings of a tribal system, is that anyone not of the proper tribe or clan is not really a person. When the first loyalty is not to a persons fellow man, other people are not really people. You can justify any crime, any act if done for God, or the tribe.

The people of Pakistan need to find the real enemy and deal with it, a good place to start is to look in the mirror. if the face so seen is one of someone who supports violent jihad of any sort- that is the enemy.

 

[Solomon2]

Interesting that the OP implies that the U.S. is recognized by the GoP is the Real Enemy on the unofficial level.

Well, what are you going to do after declaring the U.S. to be the enemy? Launch your nukes against the U.S? Declare a trade embargo? Demand some sort of compensation? Go on, tell us what happens after that. I suppose you think the Talibs will stop attacking? Or will they insist on a primary role in power as they were America's enemy first?

 

[S-2]

This is MY thread. I've been egging these loons to get to the bottom of their anti-American antipathy and compel their government to see fit to follow this wailing and gnashing of teeth to its illogical and self-destructive course...

...OR set the loons straight. Until Niaz, all the so-called leaders here have AVOIDED this thread like the plague...

...just like their government.

A rudderless ship without a captain, whether a captain of state or this board.

My thanks to Niaz for his cogent and powerful remarks. My derision of the others here whom wear the mantle but are currently inside their bomb-shelters. Too common. FAR too common.

 

[Rank]

WASHINGTON: Pakistan is in danger of becoming the "epicenter" of global extremism if the United States and its allies fail to bring stability to neighbouring Afghanistan, US Senator John Kerry said Monday.

Kerry was in Afghanistan last week and helped convince Afghan President Hamid Karzai to agree to an election run-off on November 7.

Kerry's comments came as President Barack Obama held another meeting with his national security team to consider the administration's strategy in Afghanistan and whether to send more troops to the war-torn country.

In a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations, a US think-tank, Kerry said the US must be realistic about what it can achieve in Afghanistan.

But he warned that a failure to restrain the Taliban's influence and defeat al-Qaeda would be a boon for followers in Pakistan, where much of the terrorist group fled after the US-led invasion of Afghanistan began in 2001, soon after the September 11 terrorist attacks.

"What happens in Afghanistan has an impact on Pakistan. Pakistan is not only the headquarters of al-Qaeda today, but it could easily become the epicenter of extremism in the world," said Kerry, who chairs the foreign policy committee of the Senate.

"Instability in Afghanistan only increases the risk of conflagration where the world can least afford it, next door in Pakistan," said Kerry.

Obama has been meeting for weeks with his top advisors as part of a comprehensive review of his strategy in the region and whether to send as many as 40,000 extra troops to Afghanistan.

Pakistan may turn Qaeda epicenter if Afghanistan destabilizes: Kerry - GEO.tv


"Finally US show Real face now..."

PS: who think us is very best ally who spend billions of $$ on PAkistan also Aid from past 60 Years (ever think why US spend billions of $$ on Pakistan on the name of AID ?) now ready for new game!!

lol @ 18 BLK F16 (still in US)

 

[TruthSeeker]

Stealth, it is clear that I do not understand you. What do you mean by the US showing its "real" face? What Kerry is quoted as saying above is simply his view of the situation. And, what, if anything, that Kerry said, is factually wrong?

 

[TruthSeeker]

Well, S-2, I am surprised that you take the credit for playing the role of the baiting American. I don't think any push from you (or any of the rest of us Yanks here) was necessary. In their frustration, they have to have someone to blame other than the man in the mirror. Israel is a good candidate, but not quite plausible enough. So, the colossus on the other side of the world will have to do. Too bad George Bush is gone. He was so much fun to hate and blame. Xenophobia, the first refuge of the inadequate and fearful ......