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Why Israel and Pakistan can never be allies

Muslims are nowadays too gullible and falls for Arab terrorist propaganda time and again. They do not learn any lesson. Any mention of the word "palestine" is met with a barrage of emotional response. Anybody who does not "sympathise" with civilian-killer terrorists must be an Evil Zionist. All Zionists are automatically evil occupiers.

Aryan_B, I am surprised you are not ready to acknowledge facts in this case. I am still waiting for your response to my post here: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/183869-whos-right-israel-palestine-11.html#post3035885 I am genuinely curious to know why you do not accept Israel's right to exist while at the same time, accept pakistan's right to exist.

Ben Gurion was allegedly quoted in The Jewish Chronicle in 1967 on his view of Pakistan:

The world Zionist movement should not be neglectful of the dangers of Pakistan to it. And Pakistan now should be its first target, for this ideological state is a threat to our existence. And Pakistan, the whole of it, hates the Jews and loves the Arabs. This lover of the Arabs is more dangerous to us than the Arabs themselves. For that matter, it is most essential for the world Zionism that it should now take immediate steps against Pakistan.

Whereas the inhabitants of the Indian peninsula are Hindus whose hearts have been full of hatred towards Muslims, therefore, India is the most important base for us to work from against Pakistan. It is essential that we exploit this base and strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans.

This supposed quote has been refuted many times by many sources. Just goes on to show how desperate OP and the author is to further Arab terrorist propaganda, through which they control gullible Muslims of South Asia so easily.

You do not make friends with Pakistan by helping Indians in Kargil

You do not expect Israel to not help your enemy by refusing to recognise the country in the first place + helping the terrorist Arabs in 1967 and 1973, which are itself extremely hostile actions.
 
I know all about Muslim invasion of Indian subcontinent, but you were talking about native Muslim population. Muslims in India and Pakistan are not foreigners.

And try not to suck up to Israelis with your comments to much. It makes you look bad.



Muslims never existed in India and the rest of South Asia prior to their Invasions from the Arabian peninsula. The only place were Islam came without the sword was in Kerala, before the Muslim hordes arrived from the Northwest
 
This supposed quote has been refuted many times by many sources. Just goes on to show how desperate OP and the author is to further Arab terrorist propaganda, through which they control gullible Muslims of South Asia so easily.

.

My dear poster. It doesn't matter. This supposed quote from Ben Gurion in The Jewish Chronicle in 1967 is now part of Islamists' faith and Imaan. It is like wahyi the divine revelation so you or I can never refute it. For closed-minded, dark hearted people Ben Gurion was anti-Pakistan. Iranian-B will become apostate the day he stops believing in the truth about Gurion.

In reality Guron quote and those 4000 Jooos (no disrespect intended) not showing up in WT tower are all part of Hizbullah taught authentic ahadis fully notarized and stamped by none other than the biggest Aytoooolahs and Mooolahs.

So there is no point in refuting this. Sadly.




You do not expect Israel to not help your enemy by refusing to recognise the country in the first place + helping the terrorist Arabs in 1967 and 1973, which are itself extremely hostile actions.

Israel helps Pakistani Islamists' enemy #1 - India ------ Baaaaaaaad very baaaaad.
Israel helps Pakistani Islamists and leftists' god father #1 - China ---- gooooood very gooood.

So do not get dishearted if someone just mentions India and not China when it comes to weapons supplies from Israel.

Oh BTW, Pakistan helping Arabs in 67 is utter hogwash. There are some stories of Pakistani pilots flying Iraqi "Mugs" opppps migs. It is as authentic as the Gurion quote or the 4000 Jews story.

Pakistan back then was staunchest ally of the US and hence the two countries' military cooperated very closely in many aspects of training and planning.

However no Pakistani army general not even a soldier was ever involved in wars against Israeli.

Pakistani army has been deployed in Arab countries but only in the pro-Western countries like Saudi Arabia and Jordan. large scale deployments (brigade or more) in Jordan ended long time ago like in the mid 70s.

Saudis used to have 1 to 3 brigades of Pak army until the start of Gulf War-I. Not anymore.

Very small groups of active or retired officers from Pakistan army's three branches do provide training in UAE but that's all.


peace
 
LOOOOOOOOL, Pakistan is THE factory of terrorism. Bin laden is unique in the Arab world. You on the other hand, have 180 million bin ladens. AQ is almost dead in Arab countries, Pakistan is their safe haven. the reason why you are bombed every ******* day and we are not, because your government support Haqani network, Taliban and so on, while no Arab government supports them. I know its an ingrained Pakistani characteristic to blame everyone else for your shitty miserable situation, but you need to wake and realize everything is your own fault.





AQ is dead in Arab countries ? what planet do you live on ?

AQ was born in YEMEN and is alive and kicking in YEMEN.

You are not bombed ? Just go South of KSA to an ARAB country called YEMEN and notice the DRONE bombings everyday.

Last time I checked Yemen was still an ARAB country.

As for you not being bombed, trust me that day is coming. Americans have not forgotten that 16 out of the 19 9/11 terrorist were Saudis, so if I were you I would not get too comfortable and smug
 
My dear poster. It doesn't matter. This supposed quote from Ben Gurion in The Jewish Chronicle in 1967 is now part of Islamists' faith and Imaan. It is like wahyi the divine revelation so you or I can never refute it. For closed-minded, dark hearted people Ben Gurion was anti-Pakistan. Iranian-B will become apostate the day he stops believing in the truth about Gurion.

In reality Guron quote and those 4000 Jooos (no disrespect intended) not showing up in WT tower are all part of Hizbullah taught authentic ahadis fully notarized and stamped by none other than the biggest Aytoooolahs and Mooolahs.

So there is no point in refuting this. Sadly.






Israel helps Pakistani Islamists' enemy #1 - India ------ Baaaaaaaad very baaaaad.
Israel helps Pakistani Islamists and leftists' god father #1 - China ---- gooooood very gooood.

So do not get dishearted if someone just mentions India and not China when it comes to weapons supplies from Israel.

Oh BTW, Pakistan helping Arabs in 67 is utter hogwash. There are some stories of Pakistani pilots flying Iraqi "Mugs" opppps migs. It is as authentic as the Gurion quote or the 4000 Jews story.

Pakistan back then was staunchest ally of the US and hence the two countries' military cooperated very closely in many aspects of training and planning.

However no Pakistani army general not even a soldier was ever involved in wars against Israeli.

Pakistani army has been deployed in Arab countries but only in the pro-Western countries like Saudi Arabia and Jordan. large scale deployments (brigade or more) in Jordan ended long time ago like in the mid 70s.

Saudis used to have 1 to 3 brigades of Pak army until the start of Gulf War-I. Not anymore.

Very small groups of active or retired officers from Pakistan army's three branches do provide training in UAE but that's all.


peace

Reading posts like these restores my faith in Pakistan ....... respect FaujHistorian, respect !!!


"AAQ is dead in Arab countries ? what planet do you live on! ? @ Pakistanisage

Way to go bro !!!
 
Muslims never existed in India and the rest of South Asia prior to their Invasions from the Arabian peninsula. The only place were Islam came without the sword was in Kerala, before the Muslim hordes arrived from the Northwest

My dear poster. Both Brahmins and Muslim high caste are the imported goods from Central Asia and not from Arabia. Arabs were whooped black and blue by the central Asians aka Mongols long long time ago. Forget about Qasim stories. They are just stories.

So coming back to the point.

Brahmins came in, settled in Ganga valley and made the aborigines aka native Indians as the lowest caste.

Muslim High caste aka Sayads came in, settled in Sindh valley and tried to make the locals as the lowest caste. Later on when they moved into North of Indian subcontinent, they also got ahold of locals in UP and Bihar. Fortunately Islam back then had not cemented the top echelons so many natives were able to push their way up.

so any Indian attacking Islam in the sub-continent

OR

any Pakistani attacking Hinduism in the sub-continent

is like pot calling the kettle black.


peace
 
LOOOOOOOOL, Pakistan is THE factory of terrorism. Bin laden is unique in the Arab world. You on the other hand, have 180 million bin ladens. AQ is almost dead in Arab countries, Pakistan is their safe haven. the reason why you are bombed every ******* day and we are not, because your government support Haqani network, Taliban and so on, while no Arab government supports them. I know its an ingrained Pakistani characteristic to blame everyone else for your shitty miserable situation, but you need to wake and realize everything is your own fault.

You had better hope that no Pakistani like me ends up on the Pakistani Nuclear trigger in Islamabad - Because if it it was me I would tempted to forget about India and instead toast Saudia Arabia with radiation. My only regret would be all the innocent camels !!!

Now I know why the American's call you ' Sand something'.


However, Gnani Shankaran, noted Dravidian thinker, said the time for writing the last word on Dravidian philosophy has not yet come.

“We have to find out the credentials of the authors of this research paper and their hidden agenda. In Tamil Nadu, the Dravidian and Aryan ties are inter-related. The Dalits in our land are the descendents of the Dravidian Brahmins who were pushed to the lowest strata of society by the Aryans,” Shankaran said


@ Ishaaqzaade

Do you notice the opening sentance "In what could be" and do read the highlighted quote above. I have discussed this in another thread ( Civilizational continuity ) and this paper does not debunk anything. We do not have a absolute yet.
 
My dear poster. Both Brahmins and Muslim high caste are the imported goods from Central Asia and not from Arabia. Arabs were whooped black and blue by the central Asians aka Mongols long long time ago. Forget about Qasim stories. They are just stories.

So coming back to the point.

Brahmins came in, settled in Ganga valley and made the aborigines aka native Indians as the lowest caste.

Muslim High caste aka Sayads came in, settled in Sindh valley and tried to make the locals as the lowest caste. Later on when they moved into North of Indian subcontinent, they also got ahold of locals in UP and Bihar. Fortunately Islam back then had not cemented the top echelons so many natives were able to push their way up.

so any Indian attacking Islam in the sub-continent

OR

any Pakistani attacking Hinduism in the sub-continent

is like pot calling the kettle black.


peace

New research debunks Aryan invasion theory

in what could be a major setback to Dravidian parties in Tamil Nadu, an inter-continental research in cellular molecular biology has debunked the Aryan invasion theory.

“We have conclusively proved that there never existed any Aryans or Dravidians in the Indian sub continent. The Aryan-Dravidian classification was nothing but a misinformation campaign carried out by people with vested interests,” Prof Lalji Singh, vice-chancellor, Banaras Hindu University, told DNA.

The findings of a three-year research by a team of scientists, including Prof Singh and others from various countries, has been published by American Journal of Human Genetics in its issue dated December 9.

“The study effectively puts to rest the argument that south Indians are Dravidians and were driven to the peninsula by Aryans who invaded North India,” said Prof Singh, a molecular biologist and former chief of Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology, Hyderabad.

According to Dr Gyaneshwer Chaubey, Estonian Biocentre, Tartu, Estonia, who was another Indian member of the team, the leaders of Dravidian political parties may have to find another answer for their raison d'être. “We have proved that people all over India have common genetic traits and origin. All Indians have the same DNA structure. No foreign genes or DNA has entered the Indian mainstream in the last 60,000 years,” Dr Chaubey said.

Dr Chaubey had proved in 2009 itself that the Aryan invasion theory is bunkum. “That was based on low resolution genetic markers. This time we have used autosomes, which means all major 23 chromosomes, for our studies. The decoding of human genome and other advances in this area help us in unraveling the ancestry in 60,000 years,” he explained.

However, Gnani Shankaran, noted Dravidian thinker, said the time for writing the last word on Dravidian philosophy has not yet come.

“We have to find out the credentials of the authors of this research paper and their hidden agenda. In Tamil Nadu, the Dravidian and Aryan ties are inter-related. The Dalits in our land are the descendents of the Dravidian Brahmins who were pushed to the lowest strata of society by the Aryans,” Shankaran said.

According to Prof Singh, Dr Chaubey, and Dr Kumarasamy Thangaraj, another member of the team, the findings disprove the caste theory prevailing in India. Interestingly, the team found that instead of Aryan invasion, it was Indians who moved from the subcontinent to Europe. “That’s the reason behind the findings of the same genetic traits in Eurasiain regions,” said Dr Thangaraj, senior scientist, CCMB.

“Africans came to India through Central Asia during 80,000 to 60,000 BCE and they moved to Europe sometime around 30,000 BCE. The Indian Vedic literature and the epics are all silent about the Aryan-Dravidian conflict,” said Dr S Kalyanaraman, a proponent of the Saraswathi civilization which developed along the banks of the now defunct River Saraswathi.
THIS IS ORIGNAL THEORY NOT RASIST MAXMULLAR AGE OLD THEORY .WHO PROVED FALSE MANY TIMES BY RESERCH .AND y i am also Saraswat Brahmin so don't teach me about my own history .and ya mostly indian are indo-aryan people .and mixed race.and islam is foreign religion and culture we never accept them.
 
New research debunks Aryan invasion theory

n what could be a major setback to Dravidian parties in Tamil Nadu, an inter-continental research in cellular molecular biology has debunked the Aryan invasion theory.

“We have conclusively proved that there never existed any Aryans or Dravidians in the Indian sub continent. The Aryan-Dravidian classification was nothing but a misinformation campaign carried out by people with vested interests,” Prof Lalji Singh, vice-chancellor, Banaras Hindu University, told DNA......

As soon as you start your argument my dear poster, you go off the paddle along political divisions. This is not scientific but a political analysis. Be honest my brother be honest.

I don't think there was Aryan "invasion" per se. perhaps it was migration where outsiders slowly took over the deeply fractured local groups.

Recent examples are the Mogal and other central Asian dynasties who were small in number and yet so successful in setting themselves atop of the huge number of Indian masses.

And who can forget the tiny number of Britishers who colonized so successfully that today pretty much all the systems in the region are "English". While British rule in upper Sindh valley (Balochistan, Northern Sindh, Punjab and KP) lasted only few decades, Central and East India was ruled by British in one way or the other for a century and a half.

So perhaps it is a combination of small incursions, few wars and immigration or migration that resulted in today's setup in Indus valley verses Ganga valley.

No need to jump on Dravidian parties. Come to think of it, Hinduism's top castes practically annihilated and ethnically cleansed and disenfranchised the lower castes. if you don't accept this historical fact, then you must be living in some distant planet in the same orbit as that of Islamist planet :).


Here is some scientific analysis (and relatively unbiased) for your taste buds.


===============================
The researchers showed that most Indian populations are genetic admixtures of two ancient, genetically divergent groups, which each contributed around 40-60% of the DNA to most present-day populations. One ancestral lineage — which is genetically similar to Middle Eastern, Central Asian and European populations — was higher in upper-caste individuals and speakers of Indo-European languages such as Hindi, the researchers found. The other lineage was not close to any group outside the subcontinent, and was most common in people indigenous to the Andaman Islands, a remote archipelago in the Bay of Bengal.
================================================================
source: Indian ancestry revealed : Nature News


peace.
 
Why my civilians are not innocent? Why you support the butchering of unarmed women and children?

such thoughts are not shared by us.
civilians or military .. their deaths should be condemned if killed without provocation especially civilians who dont have the means to cause any physical harm to anyone.
the right to live in peace and respect for life should be unqualified and universal.

there shouldnt be any ifs and buts. whatever the faith, race or colour.. unite together and dismiss hatred otherwise no one is better than the German Nazis
 
When arab countries themselves are in good relation with israel what is stopping pakistan ? Apni ghar khaane k vaande pade hein aur poori mohalla chale byriani bantne .!!

Man we do not oppose Israel because we want to do a favour to Arabs or Muslims but because Israel is unjust. We have a duty to stand by what is right

In the same way we abhor what Hitler did to the Jews. Not because they are same religion as us etc
 
As soon as you start your argument my dear poster, you go off the paddle along political divisions. This is not scientific but a political analysis. Be honest my brother be honest.

I don't think there was Aryan "invasion" per se. perhaps it was migration where outsiders slowly took over the deeply fractured local groups.

Recent examples are the Mogal and other central Asian dynasties who were small in number and yet so successful in setting themselves atop of the huge number of Indian masses.

And who can forget the tiny number of Britishers who colonized so successfully that today pretty much all the systems in the region are "English". While British rule in upper Sindh valley (Balochistan, Northern Sindh, Punjab and KP) lasted only few decades, Central and East India was ruled by British in one way or the other for a century and a half.

So perhaps it is a combination of small incursions, few wars and immigration or migration that resulted in today's setup in Indus valley verses Ganga valley.

No need to jump on Dravidian parties. Come to think of it, Hinduism's top castes practically annihilated and ethnically cleansed and disenfranchised the lower castes. if you don't accept this historical fact, then you must be living in some distant planet in the same orbit as that of Islamist planet :).


Here is some scientific analysis (and relatively unbiased) for your taste buds.


===============================
The researchers showed that most Indian populations are genetic admixtures of two ancient, genetically divergent groups, which each contributed around 40-60% of the DNA to most present-day populations. One ancestral lineage — which is genetically similar to Middle Eastern, Central Asian and European populations — was higher in upper-caste individuals and speakers of Indo-European languages such as Hindi, the researchers found. The other lineage was not close to any group outside the subcontinent, and was most common in people indigenous to the Andaman Islands, a remote archipelago in the Bay of Bengal.
================================================================
source: Indian ancestry revealed : Nature News


peace.
i don't belive any britishers theory of my civilization .i know their age old "devide and rule formula" and last islam is not indian culture or religion and they oppose every thing who fallowed by (us)native people .and you are right mostly indians are mixed race. .
 
I'll tell you why we cant be allies
because our Arab brothers wont allow it
although they will allow each other to have diplomatic relations and trade with Israel
but when it comes to Pakistan

the full weight of Fatwas will land on us.

secondly

Israel and Pakistan dont really share any common goals to be allies

the best we can do is have a non-aggression and non-hostility towards each other. which is easier to achieve.

our Arab brothers will be happily frolicking with Israeli beauties around the world but we will bear the weight of their smite when one of our sportsman will make a deadly mistake of partnering with an Israeli in any game.

we are compelled to be more Arab than the Arabs themselves (nothing to do with Islam).
hence there is no chance of any normal relations with Israel, let alone becoming allies.

their liaison officers normally reside in US embassies if we are to communicate with them and likewise (I think) ours reside in Turkish embassies in order to pass a message without creating a the frown on our Arab brothers.
 
I'll tell you why we cant be allies
because our Arab brothers wont allow it
although they will allow each other to have diplomatic relations and trade with Israel
but when it comes to Pakistan

the full weight of Fatwas will land on us.

secondly

Israel and Pakistan dont really share any common goals to be allies

the best we can do is have a non-aggression and non-hostility towards each other. which is easier to achieve.

our Arab brothers will be happily frolicking with Israeli beauties around the world but we will bear the weight of their smite when one of our sportsman will make a deadly mistake of partnering with an Israeli in any game.

we are compelled to be more Arab than the Arabs themselves (nothing to do with Islam).
hence there is no chance of any normal relations with Israel, let alone becoming allies.

their liaison officers normally reside in US embassies if we are to communicate with them and likewise (I think) ours reside in Turkish embassies in order to pass a message without creating a the frown on our Arab brothers.

I think if you wouldn't establish a relashionship with Israel out of fear of Arabs response, then you are dependent state and a real puppet to Arabs. You guys get to understand that "Arab", is not an ethnicity but rather a language, and what unites us as Arabs is Islam. I think your sincere commitment to Islam prevented you from forging such relations with Israel. We supported Muslims everywhere in Bosnia, Chechnya, and Afghanistan. And what we got? you are now accusing us of all you misfortunes. I remember how all our media were dedicated to support bereaved Bosnians, KSA dispatched 300 million worth arms although there was an arm embargo on all parties at the time, most forieghn fighters were Arabs who bought their souls to defend their brothers. Thereafter Bosnia was rebuild by Arab money. And what we got in return? even our moderate king at the time, allowed young to go and defend Bosenias. Anyway, it's your choice, but I believe there will be no Arab serious reaction if Pakistan establish relationship with Pakistan.
 
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