Why isnt Pakistan Army getting rid of its G3

[peshawar]

WATS SO GOOD ABOUT THIS WEAPON THAT PAK ARMY WANTS IT SO BAD

 

[JK!]

Look for the thread average Pakistani soldier in the army section.
This issue has been much debated by some of the more knowlegable members of the forum.

Basically what it comes down to is the stopping power of the rounds and the cost of replacing the rifles.

Some units in PAK army are beliebed to have M4 carbines for special roles.

 

[IceCold]

Army at this scale, its very costly to change the primary weapon. There was however some discussion about changing the cailber but this is not something that could be done in days, its requires a huge amount of funding. Besides G3 is doing a fine job so far.

 

[echo 1]

Ok the G3 is still coming into use there are still unites that dont have the weapon yet. Some are still using the AK-47 or something or the Type 54 from the Chinese and are just now beginning to be replaced. No tto mention that the Pak Army is probably wanting to replace the older models of the G3 aswell.

 

[adnan1479]

the g3 is staying and i hope no one replaces it - - and if anyone does repalce it i hope we stick to 7.62x51mm rounds and don't move to sissy peashooter barbie doll 5.56mm rounds. the latter have been proven to be incapable of going through new body armour and the latest helmets. they have, as pointed out by the gentleman above, zilch stopping power. read any socom report and the old hardcore veterans are longing for the days when they had the g3, the m14 and m1 - - - the latter 2 are being fitted with mil-std 1913 rails and being used in afghanistan and iraq today. the latest fn herstal for the us army and socom is also available in 7.62mm (as well as 5.56mm)
7.62x51mm FOREVER (no 39 mm please as the ak-47 has no range!)!

 

[fatman17]

WATS SO GOOD ABOUT THIS WEAPON THAT PAK ARMY WANTS IT SO BAD

if it aint broke - dont fix it.
as a lot of forum members have mentioned, replacing the G3 will require a lot of time, money and effort to replace the basic weapon for a half-million man army

 

[blain2]

The rifle is due for eventual replacement. It will be a while as replacements are under evaluation right now. The units equipped with Type-56s (AK-47) are not so because there is not enough G-3 production. POF can easily equip the entire Army if it were so required. The issue is the suitability of the weapon. Certain units are not using the rifle because it is not the best weapon in the conditions where these units typically deploy.

The entire X Corps and FCNA is equipped with Type 56 as are many other formations. Although most units have a mix of G-3s and AK-47 (which is considered a SMG).

POF has had excess G-3 production thus they were able to fill in an order for 60,000 G-3s for the Turkish Army in the early 2000s.

PK-8 etc. are all being considered. I think the Army will have a mix of caliber in use. 7.62 + 5.56 etc.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Changin calibres is a luxury well afforded by the rich nations. I don't think that pakistani millitary goes for the change easily. Onced they have decided what they want to get, they use it till it falls apart or gets worn beyond repair.

G 3 is a fine fine assault rifle. It will be serving the pakistani millitary for many years to come. The .308 round has good stopping power and the sniper rifle has good accuracy for 600 yds.. This rifle may be handed down to the other security forces and may still be in use 25 years from now.

 

[Tang0]

Even rich countries rarely change calibers. Back in the 80's H&K and Colt were both working on caseless ammo systems that did in fact bear fruit. They shot faster, had less recoil, and begining shooters were much more accurate with them. They had two main problems. 1. If they broke, noone could fix them in the field. (They did however have extremely low failure rates) 2. Retooling factories for caseless ammo would have been terribly expensive, and there would have been a short period where comming up with the 5.56 ammo nesecary for a major war would have been very difficult as the process was ongoing. So, as they did not increase average rifle range scores by DARPA's rather ridiculous requirement of 75%, they were droped. This is even with the fact that the gas impingement system used by the M-16 is finicky and prone to jamming even when correctly cleaned. I love the AK47, as long as you buy good (Hint, not Yugoslovian) ammo, it rarely jams. G3 is a fine rifle as long as the person wielding it remains calm and light on the trigger. I have never used any of these wepons in combat, but have used the AR-15, AK47 as well as the M-14 after a three mile run, and the M-14 came out on top. It uses the 7.62 round. So, untill the millitary is willing to shell out the cash for new types of projectile wepons, the G3 will do you just fine.

 

[peshawar]

well guys i dont want to sound you know mashroot
but i own a g3, four ak47,two ak74,an m4 , one ak101 ,2 m16s
i have extensively used aug and thats my fav
about 7.62 ya thats the best but the 7.62 has problems
g3 is heavy its has a very bad recoil and rapid firing is use less on a g3
and its length well i dont have to say any thing about that
guys have you guys how love g3 so much ever used it
and by use i mean use
i am sure you guys have got a cleaned g3 and fired a few shots on a range
but have you guys used it in field
are any one of you soilders of pakistan army? or ex soilders?
even if you are have you guys ever used any other weapon apart from G3?
if you have trust me G3 would be the last weapon you wil want to use specially in the war we are engaged in swat and waziristan
and who says that g3 does not jammm
bro G3 makes M16 look like an AK47
trust me
G3 has a serious jamming problem one you start using it in the field
i have had my m16 jam once on me and g3 jamming is a usual thing
and yes i know how to clean a weapon
just that once you have carried you weapons through sand and swamps of swabi
when you out hunting pigs for 3 days streight
you get to know which weapon is relible and which is not


about the caliber

7.62 nato has a stopping power
ya i admit but i am sure other rounds wil hurt as hell
and if any one of you have every seen the wounds made by different bullets
you guys wil definately want to get hit my a 7.72 rather than a 5.45mm
5.45 russian is eveil thing to get hit by it has better penetration than 5.56mm
still i like the 7.62 we should go for 7.62
about 7.62 russian well some one pointed about its range
well bro trust me if you ever get a chance to hold a G3 or AK47 next time
ASK SOME ONE TO STAND AT 300 METERS AND A COMPLEAT HUMAN BEING IS HIDDEN BEHIND THE PIN OF THE FRONT SIGHT OF A WEAPON
hardely any one gets shots with an assulat rifle at 300 meters
well sure if you have a scpoed weapon you can but with metal sight
its hard

 

[peshawar]

oh and about penetration
just teach me how to post pic
i wil show you the experiments i carried out about every caliber there is
ever seen a russian 7.62 rounds of ak47
its penetration is much more than g3
ever shot a russain modern head gear with a g3 an m16 a daraganove and an ak47
i have
russian ak47 bullets have steel core inside
put that in g3 and its penetartiuon wil be more than ak47 (i mean out the steel core in side g3 bullets) as long as they simply have lead in it they aint that good at penetration
still better than m16 i admit

 

[jantobanto]

it is quite right, to have short in length and less heavy in whieght. we actullay need a new weapon?
any way there will be a day when, we have to change the main assalt weapon?


so, why should not we try to do this now, as soon we decide, as fast we will be on the ground.

 

[Tang0]

Eh, alot of it is personal preference. I have met those who would not touch a 7.62 weapon like the m14 because it was heavy and awkward to swing around in CQB. On the other hand, I read the story of a Delta op who shot a Somali in the chest with an M4 and had him stand up and walk away after it happened. I personally know a few people who had hits of undetermined location and had the target get up and Run/Walk away. (Not malnourished Somali's, but still, it happened.)

You can reasonably expect a AR-15 or M-16 to Jam after 50 rounds without cleaning, or about every 30 rounds if you have left it in a dirty environment without proper protection. This can change drastically depending on circumstances of course. Range and field testing with AUG's, HK36's, and FAMAS rifles have returned extremely high reliability rates, but none of the countries fielding those weapons have any type of recent extensive combat experience, so it is hard to tell. I can't comment on the G3's reliability, but I assume that the Pakistani army can, and have concluded it is not worth the effort to change to a different rifle.

Ballistic interaction with the body is a complicated thing, and depends in large part on the makeup of the round, hell, Yugo and Romanian AK rounds behave entirely different after they impact a mushy mass. They use different metals with different weight distributions that cause the rounds to spin and mushroom at different depths after they enter the body. It is possible in fact for a lighter smaller round to impart more kinetic energy on the target depending on the design of the round and where it enters the body. Still the .308 is pretty much the smallest round I have ever seen a bear hunter attempt to use, (Besides those crazies who bow hunt grizzly....) , so it is safe to assume it has more stopping power in general.

 

[MastanKhan]

Peshawar,

Good input about the different rifles that you own. The penetration of a smaller round may be more but it is also the distance and velocity of the round that contributes to the damage.

The newer .177, .20, .21 calibre rifles may have a muzzle velocity of 4000 ft / sec plus as compared to approx 2400 ft / sec for a .308 calibre. Now at a hundred yards, a soft nosed bullet out of this small calibre rifle, would totally destroy, the stomach or chest cavity.

Some of the security personale in iraq used the smaller calibres on iraqis---the analysis I read stated that the stomach cavity / pelvic region was totally eviscerated. Body almost broken in half.

Now you are talking about 300 yds, I would say 200 yds and an average guy has problems without optics.

 

[peshawar]

You can reasonably expect a AR-15 or M-16 to Jam after 50 rounds without cleaning, or about every 30 rounds if you have left it in a dirty environment without proper protection. This can change drastically depending on circumstances of course. .

QUOTE]

man sorry to be rude but are you on drugs
m16 jamming problem was more related o its ammo in vietnam rather than its designed they fixed it long ago
dont expect an m16 to jam even after 500 rounds even though if you have not cleaned it for past 3 months
trust me i have used it a lot
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc8/darra_khan1/MVC-007S.jpg