Why is Pakistan's missile program not as diverse?

[Bossman]

That is not true,based on their research footprint,it is not true at all- they've developed various technologies ranging from food processing ,metallurgical processes like vaccum assisted epoxy resin moulding to advanced 8-channel TRMM designs being used in indian designed AESA radars. You should never be IGNORANT of what is happening around you. Go to their site or attend their seminars and read a couple of their patents or research papers- perhaps that would give you some idea- i can understand patent filing is not at all the research culture of pakistan

@Oscar

this is the radar that i actually worked on(although for a minor period during my intern).It was designed way back in 90s and did you know the most important component of this radar aka the DUAL MODE FERRITE PHASE SHIFTER was patented by a IIT delhi professor.Not only that,this radar has gone through 5-stages of iteration,i.e the current radar being procurred by the IAF is actually the 5th iteration of base rajendra that was developed in early 90s!LRDE has obviously moved well ahead of the tehnical complexities of rajendra radar,but it provided the foundations of phased array radar development in india,consequently,various advanced AESAs were developed by LRDE like the "L-STAR" project,"UTTAM-project","ASHWINI" and "ARUDHRA"

It is the weapons locating radar based on rajendra and just like rajendra it features 5000 DMPS

But how come every major Indian indigenous program is a failure. Marut, LCA, Arjun, Insas, Kaveri, Deepak, IJT etc. etc. In military, basic research is useless if it cannot be operationalized.

 

[Ammyy]

But how come every major Indian indigenous program is a failure. Marut, LCA, Arjun, Insas, Kaveri, Deepak, IJT etc. etc. In military, basic research is useless if it cannot be operationalized.

These project took more time to complete but not failed, main reason you are comparing it with Pakistani version those all based on already developed Chinese hardware so took no time to develop but India develop them from scratch.

 

[amardeep mishra]

But how come every major Indian indigenous program is a failure. Marut, LCA, Arjun, Insas, Kaveri, Deepak, IJT etc. etc. In military, basic research is useless if it cannot be operationalized.

Yeah LCA,Kaveri,IJT are failure because-
1)It enabled HAL to design and develop various in house analysis software (similar to) CATIA that would have otherwise been sourced from abroad
2)It enables HAL to file close to 450 patents every year!(compare that to pakistan that doesnt even file 200patents every year)- so in other words HAL alone files TWICE as many patents as all of pakistan combined(2014 figures)- yet for some reasons,our pakistani friends choose to believe HAL is a sitting duck!
3)It enabled DMRL to design several metallurgical processes like VACCUM ASSISTED APOXY RESIN MOULDING etc that have also been patented
4)It enabled DMRL to design for the first time SINGLE CRYSTAL blades of 1st generation in the country- something no other country would give it to you
5)GTRE also developed electronic monitoring and control unit, i.e an indigenous FADEC for kaveri engine- also known as "KADECU" among the researh community of DRDO
6)It enabled LRDE to file patents for their 8-channel TRMM- i.e 8-distinct T/R modules embedded on a single IC!- that design has been used in L-STAR project and itz X-band variant made itz way to "Project-273" aka "Project uttam"- i.e the AESA radar for LCA
7)It also enabled HAL to file patents for autolay- a critical process by which COMPOSITES are moulded in a klin into desired structures- developing software packages for such a process is not that easy as ,the physical properties of composites are anisotropic and depend on the direction of applied stress/temperature.That technology has been licensed out to various international firms
P.S-
(a) i can furnish research literature in support of my claim should you choose to verify every single point i have mentioned above
(b) you can even find detailed PATENT documents of indian designed T/R modules that are being used in several of indian AESA radars
(c)I would like to assert that unlike pakistan,india does produce a vast plethora of research literature

 

[Arya Desa]

How about Pakistan faces only one type of threat and that too is not very far away ?

One incident with Iran and you call them a threat. M8 you are being paranoid.

 

[fatman17]

PK nuclear program is India-centric. therefore it dosnt need to be as diverse as say India's or China's. we will never get into full-scale war with Af/stan or Iran but there is every chance (God Forbid) of getting into one with India. all of PK nuclear capabilities are geared towards this end. i'm sure our nuclear planners are working on things like ICBMs, MIRV's etc but the meat & bones of our nuclear programs and development are concentrated on theatre nuclear weapons, cruise missiles (land,sea and air), short-range missiles and finally miniturization of nuclear warheads to ensure quick response and delivery by methods / systems available with us.

 

[Bratva]

1 & 2) Complete sensor data synchronization , refer to my link above. Data from radar systems..both static and mobile..mobile observers, AEW and even from fighter sensors is packaged into the system.

3) An AFNET type system exists which is based on a combination of hybrid microwave, ground based links along with Sat backup if need. The diff from Indian AFNET is that it is NOT independent throughout and shares infra with other military comm links.

4) the link above should give an idea, but suffice to say that it is comprehensive.

Links are taken via off board sats for dedicated comm channels. Although PAKSAT-1R was supposed to be a means for it, currently the sat link is NOT via a Pakistani sat.

Speaking of AFNET

 

[Hyperion]

An excellent thread. @Oscar @amardeep mishra

 

[amardeep mishra]

Speaking of AFNET

Hi @Bratva
AFNET is far more diverse than you tend to assume my friend,the IAF aspect of it was raised at an estimated cost of $200-300million alone! The total cost of creating a net-centric force structure(according to various DRDO-IA seminars) is close to $3bn!
AFNET has something close to 40,000 kms of fiber optic cabling,itz own antennae,satellite terminals etc,etc
It just came to my mind(after looking at the screen) that the longest range radar in pakistani inventory happens to be TPS-77 and it seems to me a series fed configuration with frequency scanning(i.e beam is steered using frequency scanning/sweeping)- however since i have not read academic literature concerning TPS-77 i would not form any solid conclusion.
However my point is,Latest indian radars(indian designed and patented) especially arudhra offer higher flexiblity vis-a-vis TPS-77 as in- capability to track higher number of targets, DBF which results in better control over each beam(both in amplitude and phase),and arudhra certainly has far more radiating elements than TPS-77

@Hyperion
Thanks! i think we all can contribute towards a fruitful discussion!

 

[Hyperion]

Most of their systems now are home built, and the basis of most of it were never the Russians, rather Israelis. As of right now, India is at par with the Israelis, however, due to local R&D, they may well surpass the Israelis within 2 to 5 years time, in every comparable system.

Or India just procure these parts from Russia and assemble them in India?

 

[he-man]

India is at par with the Israelis, however, due to local R&D, they may well surpass the Israelis within 2 to 5 years time, in every comparable system.

Wrong,,we are much behind but maybe in 10-15 years.

 

[Hyperion]

Not on technology front, but on infrastructure front you'll need ten to fifteen more years. The thing is, you guys don't have the discipline, either of the Chinese or that of Israelis. It takes a lot more than brains to build, operate and maintain such technology.

Wrong,,we are much behind but maybe in 10-15 years.

 

[amardeep mishra]

Wrong,,we are much behind but maybe in 10-15 years.

That is not true,believe me i live not more than couple of hundred meters from a ELTA 2084 and have read about it from the open published sources ! Israelis were at time quite ahead of us in sensor design because of the simple reason that they had FABs- which we lacked all along(except for a few minor ones like SCL etc).With two new FABs coming up in india at an estimated cost of $10bn,this situation will change entirely- and in next 8-10 years india will definitely be ahead of israel
In propulsion however india is ahead of israel

@Hyperion

It just came to my mind(after looking at the screen) that the longest range radar in pakistani inventory happens to be TPS-77 and it seems to me that TPS-77 employs series fed configuration with frequency scanning(i.e beam is steered using frequency scanning/sweeping)- however since i have not read academic literature concerning TPS-77 i would not form any solid conclusion.
However my point is,Latest indian radars(indian designed and patented) especially arudhra offer higher flexiblity vis-a-vis TPS-77 as in- capability to track higher number of targets, DBF which results in better control over each beam(both in amplitude and phase),and arudhra certainly has far more radiating elements than TPS-77

 

[Hyperion]

Infrastructure!!!

@he-man

that they had FABs- which we lacked all along(except for a few minor ones like SCL etc).With two new FABs coming up in india at an estimated cost of $10bn,this situation will change entirely- and in next 8-10 years india will definitely be ahead of israel

 

[he-man]

That is not true,believe me i live not more than couple of hundred meters from a ELTA 2084 ! Israelis were at time quite ahead of us in sensor design because of the simple reason that they had FABs- which we lacked all along(except for a few minor ones like SCL etc).With two new FABs coming up in india at an estimated cost of $10bn,this situation will change entirely- and in next 8-10 years india will definitely be ahead of israel
In propulsion however india is ahead of israel

I wish to kiss u.

Link for this??

 

[Hyperion]

Mate, my knowledge of Electronics is limited to 4 courses @ engineering. On the other hand, if you've any questions about metallurgy, super alloys, CNC's, manufacturing (all sorts and varieties), mechanics, thermodynamics (etc etc) economics, finance, forecasting, system simulations / probabilistic modeling and to an extent programing etc etc, I'm your guy!

Can't stand EE stuff.......

@Hyperion
It just came to my mind(after looking at the screen) that the longest range radar in pakistani inventory happens to be TPS-77 and it seems to me that TPS-77 employs series fed configuration with frequency scanning(i.e beam is steered using frequency scanning/sweeping)- however since i have not read academic literature concerning TPS-77 i would not form any solid conclusion.
However my point is,Latest indian radars(indian designed and patented) especially arudhra offer higher flexiblity vis-a-vis TPS-77 as in- capability to track higher number of targets, DBF which results in better control over each beam(both in amplitude and phase),and arudhra certainly has far more radiating elements than TPS-77