Why China Is Selling Submarines to Pakistan ?

[Aleksei]

原来是这样

 

[Sugarcane]

nothing wrong allowing them to do trade but giving them full control and sovereignty over port is something wrong. and dont tell me Pakistan is not capable of handling port.

................ Indian regulation encourages private sector involvement by allowing 100% foreign direct investment (FDI) in the port sector. India is, therefore, currently dominated by three global terminal operators: DP World, PSA International and APM Terminals. Both DP World and PSA International operate neighbouring terminals and ports across the coast, while APM Terminals’ presence is strong in the north west of the country.......................

HFW | Indian Ports: The need for capacity and investment | Indian Ports: The need for capacity and investment

 

[saadee]

in either case good for us, we are getting AIP subs

 

[Blue Marlin]

Do you really think so. As a matter of fact he was sucessful in the past but not in present time when lot of countries wants India to play an important part in the south sea of china and how indians have been playing its cards in reply for the string of pearl policy in the form of reverse string of pearl.
And regarding the statement of india has problems with nearly all of its neighbors I can only say you much be coming out of some nowhere land. India have neighbour such as pakistan, china, afghanistan, nepal, bhutan, bangladesh, burma, srilanka, maldives, iran. Of these remove pakistan tell me how many countries have any border disputes and problems which you are saying. The history speaks India have never attacked any country in its 10,000 years of history. Now don't consider india only after 1947.

firstly i do think so, let start from the west, everyone knows pakistan and india have border disputes, china same story as pakistan, bangladesh enclaves are still a problem even though deal was struck. burma, now burma has history of disputes with india and more recently a violation of sovereignty. sri lanka india's support of millitants (tamil tigers) was known by the government, and it was pakistan in fact who helped over throw them. 'Pak played key role in Lanka's victory over Tamil Tigers' - Indian Express
buthan is a good neighbor of india, granted.
pakistan does have border disputes with india and Afghanistan only. china and pakistan signed a deal in the 1960's iran is a good neighbor of pakistan.
india has never attacked a country because it was already attacked/invaded. but there pockets of independence.

You need to read some books on defence. Antisubmarine tactics may include sonars, sensors based on space, maritime petrol and survellance aircraft, ships, distroyer, naval installations. Are you suggesting to jam them using jammer (never heard of sonar jammer), BVR ; for that the ships firing the bvr should have the superiority in the air above the sea but with the maritime Jaguar, Sea Harrier, Naval MKI, and mig 29K it looks no choise and by the way did you know that P8i could also be armed with air2ship weapons and torpedos.

not jamming sonar but jamming asw signals, a good example being your p8i. i find that aircraft have the advantage at sea base missions over ships. this is because a ship is a slow moving vessel but it does have sensitive radars. but jets are able to with fly at a low altitude at close range (200km) and then fire an ask. or it can flight at a high altitude at a long range (350+km) and fire a long range preferably super/hyper-sonic missile.

Thats the region which pakistan have the right to explore the natural resources like mining and pertrolium dwelling otherwise it is completely international free for the ships. The actual border is only 20km away from the sea.

true, but if pakistan for example puts an oil rig there then how can ships pass through? because pakistan has rights over the water it means to an extent they can do what ever they want there and no one can tell them otherwise.

 

[ravi kiran]

................ Indian regulation encourages private sector involvement by allowing 100% foreign direct investment (FDI) in the port sector. India is, therefore, currently dominated by three global terminal operators: DP World, PSA International and APM Terminals. Both DP World and PSA International operate neighbouring terminals and ports across the coast, while APM Terminals’ presence is strong in the north west of the country.......................

HFW | Indian Ports: The need for capacity and investment | Indian Ports: The need for capacity and investment

is there any difference between private firms and country?

We gave them full control to administer the port. If you think we have given up the sovereignty,why is that it is and will be protected by PAKISTAN security forces?
What you stated was cheap. Your hatred towards us has ruined you.

So when India buys weapons from the world, to bully her neighbors, is that what she is doing, selling her sovereignty?

Please post that Document which sates all that from official source of Pakistan Government.

China gets 40-year management rights on Gwadar port, access to Arabian Sea - The Express Tribune

 

[fatman17]

Revealed: Why China Is Selling Submarines to Pakistan
Does the sale represent a step in China’s possible ambitions to have a toehold in the Indian Ocean?

As previously covered by The Diplomat, Pakistan announced earlier this year that it has agreed to purchase eight modified Type 41 Yuan-class diesel-electric submarines from China. These boats will provide Islamabad with much-needed Anti-Access/Area Denial (A2/AD) capabilities against the Indian Navy in case of war. This would be especially useful in case of an Indian blockade of Pakistan’s coast and could give New Delhi grounds to pause before deploying its planned new aircraft carrier, the INS Vikrant.

A Yuan-class submarine is undoubtedly a great piece of kit. It is China’s first class of submarines to incorporate an indigenously designed- and constructed Air-Independent Propulsion system (AIP), giving it a cruise speed of 18 knots and an operational range of 8,000 nautical miles. Although the export version of the Yuan, named the S-20, does not automatically come fitted with the AIP, Pakistan has apparently been able to secure it for its subs. Furthermore, the Yuan is integrated “with advanced noise reduction techniques including anechoic tiles, passive/active noise reduction and an asymmetrical seven-blade skewed propeller.”

Combined with the AIP, this makes the Yuan-class the quietest non-nuclear sub in the PLAN. Furthermore, the Yuan has an impressive set of teeth. Aside from six tubes firing standard 553mm torpedoes, it is equipped with the YJ-8/8A Anti-Ship Cruise Missile (ASCM). While this weapon only has a maximum range of between 30-42 km, there are plans to equip the Yuans with the YJ-18 ASCM. These missiles have a reported range of 220 km and, represent a real A2/AD “force multiplier” for the Yuan. Whether Pakistan will attempt to acquire these missiles, or opt to go for another option (such as their indigenously produced Hatf VII Babur) is unknown.

The sale raises one crucial question: why is China selling Pakistan these subs? There is undoubtedly a commercial aspect to this transaction (it is unknown how much Pakistan will pay for these boats, although it is certainly in the multi-billion dollar range). However, one potential reason which is worrying analysts in New Delhi is that this represents a step in China’s possible ambitions to have a toehold in the Indian Ocean. Without opening the can of worms that is the “String of Pearls” debate, it’s worth looking at this possibility.

Here are the facts: Firstly, the Indian Ocean is important for China for a range of reasons. The amount of Chinese sea-borne trade which passes through the Indian Ocean sea-lane is staggering. These sea-lines of communication (SLOCs) represent a lifeline for the Chinese economy, not least in terms of imports of natural resources, especially hybrocarbons, and exports, in terms of manufactured goods. Any naval strategist worth his salt has read Alfred Thayer Mahan, and will immediately recognize the importance of securing a trading state’s SLOCs. China is no exception.

Secondly, China has recently deployed submarines to the Indian Ocean. (This, incidentally, included the visit of a Yuan-class boat to Karachi.) According to Beijing, these are primarily there to participate in the ongoing anti-piracy campaign in the Gulf of Aden. While this is at least partially true, it is also likely that they are conducting exercises, surveys, and perhaps even combat patrols which can be useful for future operations in the Indian Ocean. Thirdly, Beijing does care about its image and is “realistic” about its power-projection capabilities. According to a recent US Naval War College report, it’s unlikely that China will construct overseas bases in the same way that the United States or France have in the near future in fear of alarming other stakeholders and overstretching naval resources needed closer to home. Finally, China is a long way from the Indian Ocean, and Pakistan is its closest partner in the neighborhood.

Even if its subs can stay at sea for months without refueling at a time, its crews can’t. Having a well-fitted anchorage close to a submarine’s intended area of operations makes it much easier to rotate crews, take on fresh supplies, and carry out maintenance. The PLAN has already called on ports in Oman, Djibouti, and Aden during its anti-piracy campaigns in the Gulf of Aden. However, this has so far only included surface vessels. Submarines often require more specialized facilities to function effectively. Locating a resupply place (not base) in the friendliest state in the area makes sense.

A Pakistani naval facility which already berths compatible subs sounds like a good fit for such a “place.” It would remove the need to permanently station a large number of personnel and equipment abroad, while providing adequate maintenance facilities for the sort of routine repairs that submarines unavoidably need in order to function smoothly over long periods of time. This wouldn’t represent the first time this kind of arrangement has occurred. For example, the British Oberon-class was used by several other allied states during the Cold War, including Australia and Canada. The fact that these navies operated the same class of vessels facilitated maintenance during exercises and visits.\


Revealed: Why China Is Selling Submarines to Pakistan | The Diplomat

china is selling to us because we have the right to buy them.

 

[Blue Marlin]

china is selling to us because we have the right to buy them.

it's got nothing to do with having the right. its about wanting them, having the right to something is precieved as deserving them, but you dont deserve it, you need it, hense why your procuring them. sure pakistan has the luxuary of having non-export options, but that why pakistan and china are friends. all you need is money then you can buy what you want, or as you like to call it, having the right to it.

 

[CHN Bamboo]

原来是这样

Do you really understand..? @Aleksei

 

[immortalsoul]

You are free to make alliance with anyone, but ensure not to get left alone when you need the alliance support. You know, history is a very good teacher.



China will never ever participate with you in case of Indo Pak war, but I like your confidence.



If you are really looking for some kick a$$ naval hardware. Spend some more and go for descent western subs, not the Chinese tin cans.

chinese tin cans are enough to tackle indian circus

 

[Sugarcane]

is there any difference between private firms and country?

LOL!!! Tum karo tu dance, hum karain tu mujra.... Just like India gave port operations to firms of UAE, Singapore etc. Pakistan gave to Chinese firm. So, stop wetting your saffron chaddi without any reason.

 

[Basel]

8 Submarine is a good number. Pakistan shall have a reasonably good sub fleet when it gets the dilivery of these submarines.

They are not the only subs coming, PN is also looking for used subs from west 2-3 also.

 

[HariPrasad]

They are not the only subs coming, PN is also looking for used subs from west 2-3 also.

That is great.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

The reason why it is happening is straightforward and simple:

Pakistan needs to maintain and enhance its sub fleet (8+3 the max that Pakistan had at any point in time were 6; 4 Daphne and 2 Agosta's) and build a second strike capability -- to ensure the MAD doctrine remains in place as an assurance of non use of Nuclear Weapons from both sides.

I had in some of my old posts outlined the need for atleast 12 or so boats to be the min. number needed to mount an effective sea denial by PN -- this number dove tails with the projected numbers of submarines being thrown out there now.

Furthermore, China has interests in the region due to a large amount of China bound shipping transiting thru this area. Logically it would want some kind of oversight and force projection to protect its SLOC in the area. This strategic need has been there for some time but only now, China is in a position to start projecting power thru naval units more suited for blue water operations which were not available previously.

Having a friendly partner with a dovetailing strategic interests in the region and a common threat in the event of hostilities -- is more than enough motivation to suitably arm and equip that partner.

After all, whether our friends in the east like it or not, Pakistan is ideally placed to choke off the Straits of Hormuz or project force in that area to safeguard any and all transiting seaborne traffic.

However to do this PN needs to be suitably equipped. Hence the focus on Navy.

Now if that force is equipped with what you yourself operate then your job becomes all the more easier -- better understanding of the capability of your partner in the region, training, logistics in some cases, etc.

And obviously, China would need a use of a port and ancillary facilities to ensure extended patrols in the region are sustainable. Hence A naval facility in Ormara etc. will be required.

These are the some of the some of the same reasons why Uncle Sam is so keen to enhance Defense cooperation with our neighbors in the East.

Btw we are not the only ones in the region whose shoulders are being used to fire bullets at some one else!!!

 

[wiseone2]

We will get second strike capability. Even if we are doomed and land is turned into nuclear waste, then still we have something to pose serious threat through ocean.
Also it can show good resistance and to demolish their plans of blockade in case of war.

it is easier to destroy Pakistani subs in the sea than it is to find your nukes on land
it took Uncle Sam six years to find Bin Laden

 

[china zhoushan]

In short, china is firing a bullet from Pakistani Gun

in short we help you make the bullet by yourself

IT is india sea black hole