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Why Bangladesh need a strong army

Yes, there is no place for a weak nation. We need all the armaments to protect ourselves from the two hostile and big neighbours. But, we have two assets in BD that can protect us. These are people and terrain of this land.

It was these two advantages that required the Delhi Mughals to fight for long 30 yrs to impose their authority in this land. When Sultan Dawood Khan Karrani was captured in a war and beheaded by the Mughal General in 1576, the people rose and fought for the next 30 years.

Badshah Akber failed to pacify this land. Badshah Jahangir finally did it in 1606 when the last leader of this land, Khwaja Osman Khan was hit in his eye by an arrow from a Mughal hitman in a battle. He died of bleeding, but his sons cut his head from his body, and buried separtely so that the Mughals cannot disrespect their father by showing his head throughpout the Mughal empire.

Terrain and people still remain same as before, but then why Indian assistance was needed in 1971? But, even without much of armaments, people rose against the occupying trrops from west Pakistan.

The spirit of the population still remains same as before. India or what, big or small, we just do not give a damn to any country. Let India come with their million troops and all its junks. They will bomb and destroy our assets, but will be bogged down with all their mights in the marsh terrain of Bengal.

To occupy our land the invading troops will have to face a population who would just go to fight with the KAFAN on their heads. In 1971, we were helpless without arms. Today, our people have arms.

I believe, India does not necessarily want to destroy BD. But, there are elements who would like to do so. India wants a weak BD, who would become their puppet. For the last 37 years, it did not happen that way and it will not happen until Qayamat, even if we remain a weak military power.

However, military strength is needed to scare off an enemy. Indian bullying will stop when we are a militarily strong country. I can see their attitude in this forum, too. They respect power, every country does. But, a sharp sword cannot be made without good steel, and a strong military cannot be built without a sound economy.

For a strong military we have to wait for only a few more years until our economy stands on strong footing.

I've never seen such ridiculous post in a long time. Understand something, the history of Bengali resistance to Mughal rule was not the history of Bangladesh, it is the history of Bengal. They were not your people who resisted but rather the ancestors of a united Bengal. As an Indian, and as a Bengali, i find your post offensive.

Bangladesh should by all means get a strong army if it so desires, it's not really India's concern. It's not like a stronger Bangladeshi military would ever threaten India.

There is no place for weak nation on this planet..period.

This kind of thinking would have been more common place in the middle ages or Hitler's Germany. Please feel free to join us in the year 2009 anytime.
 
How many more centuries are you going to flatter yourself by saying that your fathers have given us independence? Independence is not someone's father's property. It is bought by paying in bloods, and we people did just that. Moreover, we gave you a win. This win was a big bonus.

Aren't you happy that you won your only war in 1971 in the last thousand years, and it was due to sacrificing our bloods? Instead of flattering yourself you should convey your thanks to us for a win like that. If you bigots are so fond of independence, then vacate Kashmir. Your hypocrite PM will receive a Nobel Peace Prize.

If you cannot, then why do you flatter yourselves? By the way, did your Indira Gandhi, the champion of freedom and independence receive a Peace Prize for making us free? You should claim one without fail. Or you can go the UNO for an arbitration. When you receive a prize like that, then go around the world and claim the title of 'Champion of Freedom.'

If you really want to win over us single handedly, then come with your troops and try to do it, you big-mouth Hindu bigot. Learn how to sacrifice blood, then come to win over us. We will teach you the same lesson as we did in the 2001 Padua and then the Roumary border battles.

Only 13 BDR troops faced a sudden attack at night by (400 + 400) = 800 IA troops in Roumary. We killed your 97 and our deads numbered 3. Learn the truth and not from Indian propaganda machines.

Since you cannot win over even our BDR, you have used your money to destroy it by conspiracy. Your RAW organized a mutiny. You have a treacherous brain, but we have heart and bravery. Finally, we will prevail upon you, do you understand, you hypocrite?


You have completely missed the point. Instead of flying off the handle what was needed to be seen that within 24 yrs of independence India had reached a stage that it could do what it did in'71.

This was achieved by learning relevant lessons from mistakes made and not by blaming others.

Only if ppl stop lamenting on the past can anyone look forward to the future.
 
Whoa ..

Steady old chap, there is no denying that BD like all other nations needs a strong ( & loyal ) army to defend the nation ( not take it over!) from all form of threats including the BDR.

You flatter yourself by feeling that India would like to attack BD. Why would it do so ? What has BD to offer that India does not have in abundance - population, problems,ports, to name a few. God has been kind to us all in S Asia by giving us all these & more in plenty. We all have enough of our own.

.. and if it were EVER ( though most un likely) to a hostile situation, a Naval Blockade will serve the purpose.

Next , who stops BD from becoming a strong nation ? I think it is the ppl of BD itself. When India was 37 yrs old, BD had been created by the IA.

To come back to the point, yes BD does need a strong military like all nations do- but a non political one.

Ya India inherited a british country with all its military in 1947. BD started from scratch. Yet we are doing pretty well.
 
I've never seen such ridiculous post in a long time. Understand something, the history of Bengali resistance to Mughal rule was not the history of Bangladesh, it is the history of Bengal. They were not your people who resisted but rather the ancestors of a united Bengal. As an Indian, and as a Bengali, i find your post offensive.

Bangladesh should by all means get a strong army if it so desires, it's not really India's concern. It's not like a stronger Bangladeshi military would ever threaten India.



This kind of thinking would have been more common place in the middle ages or Hitler's Germany. Please feel free to join us in the year 2009 anytime.

If want to be the part of the pride of Bengal history you first need to join independent Bengal. You should not find pride of Bengal's resistance against Delhi while living under Delhi.

Thanks
 
I've never seen such ridiculous post in a long time. Understand something, the history of Bengali resistance to Mughal rule was not the history of Bangladesh, it is the history of Bengal. They were not your people who resisted but rather the ancestors of a united Bengal. As an Indian, and as a Bengali, i find your post offensive.
A nation is not made of only soil and land, but it is also the history of its people. We remain the same people who fought against Mughal Delhi, Pakistan and the Indian incursions in 2001. We do not have to depend upon heavy arms like Pakistan, we can resist Indian agressions.

Your heavy battle tanks are good for Pakistan terrains, but these will turn into big toys in our soil. You have to bring in cranes to lift these up. Then these crawling cranes will also be bogged down in our soil. So, do not depend upon your tanks.

You have to send your foot soldiers to fight in our marsh lands. Yes, I am talking about a 21st century unequal war that your politicians are fond of imposing upon us when your NE itself is vulnerable in a situation like that.
 
Ya India inherited a british country with all its military in 1947. BD started from scratch. Yet we are doing pretty well.

Why did it start from scratch ?

Till 47 it was a part of the same brit country. Assuming for a moment that the period till 71 was bad for development ( though this is debatable ) have 38 yrs of independence not been able to undo the ' damage' if any of 24 yrs of being a province of Pk ?

Anyway its good if BD is doing pretty well.
 
It was not THAT BAd dude.In fact Ayub Khan started a lot of projects in BD..development was not really issue..it was political, diplomatic and millitary dispairty and then millitary action added with Banglai Nationalism caused breakup of East Pakistan./
 
Why did it start from scratch ?

Till 47 it was a part of the same brit country. Assuming for a moment that the period till 71 was bad for development ( though this is debatable ) have 38 yrs of independence not been able to undo the ' damage' if any of 24 yrs of being a province of Pk ?

Anyway its good if BD is doing pretty well.

I dont know what exactly is your point? You want us prove our military strength or maturity by annexing NE with us?

Why it is different in 1947.
1) We lost our industrial and intellectual base in Calcutta. BD without Calcutta was nothing but a piece of marsh land.

2) In 1947 E. Pakistan inherited 0 military from british as after 1857 sepoy mutiny Bengali muslim were barred from british military officers rank. Lower level soldiers were also discouraged from Bengal Muslim community.
 
I dont know what exactly is your point? You want us prove our military strength or maturity by annexing NE with us?

Why it is different in 1947.
1) We lost our industrial and intellectual base in Calcutta. BD without Calcutta was nothing but a piece of marsh land.

2) In 1947 E. Pakistan inherited 0 military from british as after 1857 sepoy mutiny Bengali muslim were barred from british military officers rank. Lower level soldiers were also discouraged from Bengal Muslim community.


I am sorry I cannot comprehend your reply.

How can you even think of 'annexing' the NE ?

Next, on losing the industrial & intellectual base. W Punjab ( Pk) was the region that was more fertile , developed & had a better canal network than E Punjab which came to India. Areas of Bhatinda, Ganganagar (Raj), Fazilka etc were mostly barren. The rest of E Punjab comprised of erstwhile princely states like Patiala, Kapurthala, Nabha etc. The same region by the 60's had turned into the bread basket of India.

Similarly, having lost industries in 47 in no way precluded development in EP.

Lastly , on the highlighted portion. Why Bengali Muslim even Non Bengali Muslim & Hindus did not become Officers in Brit IA till the 1930's.
 
If want to be the part of the pride of Bengal history you first need to join independent Bengal.

Pride? We were talking of History. As for joining "independent" Bengal, i know this would be difficult for you to comprehend but my Bengali identity is super ceded by my Indian identity. This is not an anomaly.

You should not find pride of Bengal's resistance against Delhi while living under Delhi.

You should not talk of Bangladesh or Bangladeshi pride whilst living in the US. Thanks.

A nation is not made of only soil and land, but it is also the history of its people. We remain the same people who fought against Mughal Delhi, Pakistan and the Indian incursions in 2001. We do not have to depend upon heavy arms like Pakistan, we can resist Indian agressions.

Your heavy battle tanks are good for Pakistan terrains, but these will turn into big toys in our soil. You have to bring in cranes to lift these up. Then these crawling cranes will also be bogged down in our soil. So, do not depend upon your tanks.

You have to send your foot soldiers to fight in our marsh lands. Yes, I am talking about a 21st century unequal war that your politicians are fond of imposing upon us when your NE itself is vulnerable in a situation like that.

I could not make sense of this drivel, was that a serious response?
 
No one wants to destroy BD...most people in India don't even notice BD.

Yet another Indian trying to fool people...

You get two flags on this forum for a reason: you can use Indian and US flags to show you are an Indian-American.
 
I am sorry I cannot comprehend your reply.

How can you even think of 'annexing' the NE ?

Next, on losing the industrial & intellectual base. W Punjab ( Pk) was the region that was more fertile , developed & had a better canal network than E Punjab which came to India. Areas of Bhatinda, Ganganagar (Raj), Fazilka etc were mostly barren. The rest of E Punjab comprised of erstwhile princely states like Patiala, Kapurthala, Nabha etc. The same region by the 60's had turned into the bread basket of India.

Similarly, having lost industries in 47 in no way precluded development in EP.

Lastly , on the highlighted portion. Why Bengali Muslim even Non Bengali Muslim & Hindus did not become Officers in Brit IA till the 1930's.

I did not get you regarding Punjab being the bread basket of India. We were talking about Bengal, didnt we?

It was a 35/65 proportion Indian to Brit after 1857 which was other way around 65/35 before 1857. I could not find the british army reference archive to those right at this moment. But will post as soon as I find them again.
Regarding over representation of Punjabis in british army please read the following.

Muslims in Army : Hiding what`s well-known

The reason for the Muslim under-representation in the Indian army, or the Sikh over-representation, is something that lies partly in history, and its public disclosure would harm nobody.

There’s something surreal about India’s debate on Muslim under-representation in the Indian army. If the defence minister says the army has done no head-count of its Muslims, how did the army give an exact Muslim figure of 29,093 last month? The figure is backed by a retired lieutenant-general who says the Muslims are 2 per cent.

Whatever the exact percentage, a huge Muslim under-representation in our army is a fact. So is a huge Sikh over-representation. See the contrast. Sikhs form 1.86 per cent of India’s population but number around 8 per cent in the Indian army. Muslims form 13 per cent of India’s population but are 2 per cent in the army. Why should this truth about Muslim under-representation be suppressed? Or that of Sikh over-representation? But an irrational love of secrecy causes Indian rulers to hide information whose public disclosure would harm nobody.

Just as Muslims are under-represented in the army, so are the Bengalis, Biharis, Oriyas, south Indians or Gujaratis. And just as Sikhs are over-represented, so are the Jats, Dogras, Garhwalis, Kumaonis, Gurkhas, Marathas, Pathans and Punjabis.

The reason for this disparity lies in history. The Indian army’s recruitment pattern was set 150 years ago by India’s 1857 uprising. Traumatised by the rebellion, the British army adopted a recruitment policy that punished the groups which rebelled and rewarded the ones that stayed loyal. Because Muslims of Awadh, Bihar and West Bengal led the uprising, the British army stopped hiring soldiers from these areas.

Also blacklisted from these places were high-caste Hindus whose regiments in Bengal had also mutinied. In contrast, the British raised the recruitment of castes that had stood by the British to put down the uprising. These castes were the Sikhs, the Jats, Dogras, Garhwalis, Kumaonis, Gurkhas, Marathas, Pathans, plus Punjabis, both Hindus and Muslims. Honoured as martial races, they received preferential treatment in army recruitment for the next 90 years. Like any institution, the Indian army’s a prisoner of the past.

Even today, it favours enlisting men from the martial races. Their over-representation in the Indian army is huge. Figures bear this out. Of 2.87 lakh jawans hired by the army in the last three years, a disproportionate 44,471 came from three “martial” states, Punjab, Haryana, and the mountain state of Uttaranchal. So these states which account for 5 per cent of India’s population provided 15 per cent of India’s army jawans.

In contrast, the fewest recruits came from “non-martial” West Bengal, Bihar and Gujarat. These three states account for 30 per cent of India’s population, but they provided only 14 per cent of army jawans in this three-year period. So the Indian army has not only a religion-based disparity in recruitment, but also one based on caste and region. A glimpse of this discrimination was provided by a press release issued by a defence office in Jammu five years ago. Seeking recruits for the Indian army, the press release said: “No vacancies for Muslims and tradesmen.” Meaning that martial Dogras were welcome to apply, but not Hindu business castes like the Baniyas and the Khatris.

About the Muslim under-representation in the Indian army, the reasons are three. One was Partition. Before Independence, Muslims were around 25 per cent of the Indian army and 25 per cent of undivided India. But when India broke up and Muslim soldiers were asked to choose between India and Pakistan, they joined Pakistan en masse. So Muslim numbers in the Indian army dropped so drastically that they were only 2 per cent in 1953, according to India’s then minister of state for defence. Jawaharlal Nehru himself expressed concern that “hardly any Muslims” were left in the army. And Muslim numbers never really picked up in the last 60 years for a well-known reason.

India’s military establishment hesitates to hire Muslims as soldiers because it suspects Muslim loyalty to India. This discrimination is a natural outcome of India and Pakistan’s bitter hostility over 60 years. In similar situations, the same thing happens all over the world. The Israeli army doesn’t trust its Arab soldiers in jobs related to defence security. The Buddhist Sinhalese army under-recruits its Hindu Tamils lest their sympathies lie with the Tamil Tigers. After 9/11, US army recruiters would probably screen a Muslim American volunteer more thoroughly than a Christian American. Thanks to our four wars with Pakistan, the same anti-Muslim animus works here in army recruitment.

Proof of it lies in an enormous mass of documentary and other evidence which expresses distrust of Muslims. Otherwise, why does India have separate regiments for the Sikhs, Jats, Dogras, Garhwalis, Kumaonis, Mahars, the Nagas, even the Gurkhas, but not a single Muslim regiment? This is tragic but it’s a truth which shouldn’t be suppressed. It should be acknowledged and dealt with.

Events have consequences. Muslim under-recruitment in the Indian army is a consequence of Partition. India and Pakistan’s hostility is seen in both countries in Hindu versus Muslim terms. So it’s natural for India’s Hindu army establishment to distrust a Muslim who wants to join as a soldier.

This prejudice itself discourages qualified Muslim youths from applying, which drives down Muslim numbers even more. Another reason for Muslim under-recruitment is the relatively poor education of Muslims. When they try to enlist as soldiers, they are simply out-competed by better-educated Sikh, Hindu, and Christian youths. So Muslim leaders are quite right that Muslim under-recruitment in the army deprives the community of a good, life-long source of employment. It’s a sad situation not so easy to correct.

In life, however, one man’s meat is another man’s poison. The under-representation of Muslims and other caste or regional groups benefits the over-represented ones. The composition of the Indian army is totally askew numbers-wise. West Bengal’s population is eight times that of Uttaranchal. But Uttaranchal provided almost the same number of army recruits as West Bengal last year. Compare a “martial” Punjab with a non-martial Gujarat. Punjab’s population is half that of Gujarat. But it provided four times as many people to the Indian army as Gujarat. The Indian army hired far more recruits in Rajasthan than in Tamil Nadu though Tamil Nadu’s population is higher. Essentially, the Indian army is dominated numbers-wise by Sikhs and Hindi-speaking Hindus of north India. The current status quo suits them perfectly.
http://superhindus.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/muslims-in-the-indian-army-only-2/
 
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I dont know what exactly is your point? You want us prove our military strength or maturity by annexing NE with us?

Why it is different in 1947.
1) We lost our industrial and intellectual base in Calcutta. BD without Calcutta was nothing but a piece of marsh land.

2) In 1947 E. Pakistan inherited 0 military from british as after 1857 sepoy mutiny Bengali muslim were barred from british military officers rank. Lower level soldiers were also discouraged from Bengal Muslim community.

It was a 35/65 proportion Indian to Brit after 1857 which was other way around 65/35 before 1857. I could not find the british army reference archive to those right at this moment. But will post as soon as I find them again.
Regarding over representation of Punjabis in british army please read the following.

You are slipping from the points you raised.

Also , having lost the industrial base is understandable, tell me how did BD lose its intellectual base after ' 47 ? Were there no intelligent men left in BD after the partition ??

Next, what about the point of development of EP as compared to the development of East Punjab ?

Lastly, remember the point you raised above was on the no bengali Officers - refer underlined portion above.
 
Pride? We were talking of History. As for joining "independent" Bengal, i know this would be difficult for you to comprehend but my Bengali identity is super ceded by my Indian identity. This is not an anomaly.

While I was in school I used to hang out in a bar near my dorm (I dont drink but play pool). I used to talk to an Indian guy all the time and he used to speak hindi or English. Obiviously I cant speak hindi so English was the only medium of communication. Anyways after 2 years, I found out that he was a Bengali from Calcutta and he can speak really good Bengali. I asked him why the hell you speak Hindi with us? He answered, thats his national language. I answered him, English is our national language now in USA. So you sick a$$, never ever try any other language in front of us except English.

Anyways .. come back to your Indian identity thing. Yes grapes are sour for fox but not for monkeys.
 

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