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Any one interested in talking about PAKISTANI PILOTS ONLY
Is arguably the best pilot of his era. He routinely did the so called 'cobra maneuver' in a less capable design than what the Russians did with a superior design and stole the credit. US pilots flew more often than any other air forces and it is difficult to argue against a man who, for all we know, never lost a challenge. Boyd's thesis on energy management in an aerial engagement is the standard to this day. Lest anyone point out that these are simulated combat engagements, he should ask himself if he is willing to face an Olympic class fencer with no protection and a real saber, after all, this fencer won nothing but simulated combat engagements, no?As an instructor at the Fighter Weapons School (FWS) at Nellis AFB, he fought students, cadre pilots, Marine and Navy pilots, and pilots from a dozen countries, who were attending the FWS as part of the Mutual Defense Assistance Pact.
He never lost.
Boyd was famous for a maneuver he called "flat-plating the bird." He would be in the defensive position with a challenger tight on his tail, both pulling heavy Gs, when he would suddenly pull the stick full aft, brace his elbows on either side of the cockpit, so the stick would not move laterally, and stomp the rudder. It was as if a manhole cover were sailing through the air and then suddenly flipped 90 degrees. The underside of the fuselage, wings, and horizontal stabilizer became a speed brake that slowed the Hun from 400 knots to 150 knots in seconds. The pursuing pilot was thrown forward and now Boyd was on his tail radioing "Guns. Guns. Guns."
The myth of "Forty-Second Boyd" still rankles AF fighter pilots. They say there is no "best" pilot; that everyone has a bad day. But if they went through Nellis in the late 1950s, they know Boyd had no bad days. And they cannot come up with the name of anyone who ever defeated him.
Any time you start I will follow.
New Recruit
I think Col Giora Epstein, watch the vedio on youtube
List of the pilots whom I am known, heard or read, given below.
1. MM Alam
2. Allaudin Ahmed Butch
3. Jamal A Khan
4. Hakim ullah
5. F S Hussain
6. Masroor Hussain
7. Sarfraz A Rafiqui
8. Middle Coat
:
1. MHK Dotani (above 6000 hrs flying served in PAF & abu dhabi AF)
2. Sattar Alvi (2 kills in 1973 yom kippur war)
3. Hasnat Ahmed
4. Shams ul Haq (As F/O he shot 3 IAF aircrafts on 03.12.1971)
5. Abdur Razzaq
6. Khalid Mehmood (3 kills in soviet afghan war)
7. Athar Bukhari
8. Kaiser Tufail
At least we can discuss them...some have experince of both wars, one war, we can discuss their records, performance in exercises, dogfights etc.
...snip....
1. MHK Dotani (above 6000 hrs flying served in PAF & abu dhabi AF)
2. Sattar Alvi (2 kills in 1973 yom kippur war)
3. Hasnat Ahmed
4. Shams ul Haq (As F/O he shot 3 IAF aircrafts on 03.12.1971)
5. Abdur Razzaq
6. Khalid Mehmood (3 kills in soviet afghan war)
7. Athar Bukhari
8. Kaiser Tufail
At least we can discuss them...some have experince of both wars, one war, we can discuss their records, performance in exercises, dogfights etc.
I am just curious - being new on this forum - where and what are the above doing these days???
Also in reference to Mr. Muradk's comment earlier in this thread about none of them making the higher echelons of PAF command....sad. Let me, just for discussion sake, suggest an alternative explanation as to why they do not get to higher command: sometimes it is hard for trained "killers" to become good managers. Anyone who has ever achieved anything in "management" recognises that "***-kissing" is a necessary evil. For fighter pilots who HAVE killed their enemy, so to speak, it may be a difficult thing to do. Just my two cents.............
PS: as per this .pakdef.info/pakmilitary/airforce/1971war/threedays.html
a Flight Lieutenant "Schames" shot down 3 in Dacca - there was another Shams who did the same??? ---- wow!!!! or is this the same guy?????