Who is an Islamophobe ?

[Roybot]

Anyone who questions Islam or Muslims is an islamophobe. At least thats the vibe I get from my interactions here on pdf!

 

[kumarkumar1867]

Contrarily, it is you guys who are taught religious bigotry from very early ages in your homes and schools and colleges. Calling Indian Muslims Malechha in your houses is a common practice. And when you grow up you are so brainwashed that you don’t even feel that what you say is religious bigotry.

HAHAHAAHAAAHAAAAHAA

Most Indian history textbooks, for example, uncritically accepted the periodisation of history into the Hindu, Muslim and British periods. Hindu rulers were projected as having been tolerant and enlightened whereas Muslim rulers as bigoted and as the persecutors of Hindus. Another common bias, which flew in the face of all evidence, was that the Aryans were the original inhabitants of India.

No enlightened muslim rulers were peacefully leaving on their lands it was intolerant hindu rulers from Saudi Arabia & middle east who invaded their kingdoms

High School Itihas Bhag 1: "The Indian society during the Sultanate period was divided into two main classes - ruling or Muslim class and ruled or non-Muslims of whom Hindus were the majority" (page 281). Or: "Hindu was merely the payer of taxes. In spite of being conquered in the political field, Hindus did not lose courage. To regain their lost independence, they went on raising their voice from time to time.

RULING FEW STATES OF NORTH INDIA DOESNT MEAN RULING INDIA.



EMPEROR AKBAR SIGNED MANY TREATIES WITH RAJPOOTS & NON-MUSLIMS MAKING THEM RULERS OF SOME KINGDOMS TO KEEP DELHI SULTANATE AND LEAD A PEACEFUL LIFE

In many schools Children, regardless of their religious background, have to recite the Saraswathi Vandana in the mornings and the Bhojan Mantra before their afternoon meal. Muslim children are often asked to lead the prayers. There are punishments meted out for not praying.

You guys are the biggest Islamophobes and the irony is that you don’t even know it.

A true muslim with strong faith doesnt get effected by such acts meant for understanding other faiths.

Even Zakir Naik knows vedas-upnishads-puranas also Bible & has mastered Quran & Hadees. Is he less muslim then a TIN-HORN like you??

Also majority Hindus know 3 kalmas, they know five pillars of islam, they know about all Prophets , Mohammad (PBUH), his life, his teaching & even some hadiths, even know about ALI, they greet other fellow muslims with ASSALAM O ALAIKUM or WALAIKUM ASSALAM, they depart from muslim friends saying ALLAH HAFIZ or KHUDA HAFIZ

Thanks for this last part, you presented a example of yourself to explain what religious bigot is & look like as.

 

[Wickerman]

Contrarily, it is you guys who are taught religious bigotry from very early ages in your homes and schools and colleges. Calling Indian Muslims Malechha in your houses is a common practice. And when you grow up you are so brainwashed that you don’t even feel that what you say is religious bigotry.

Actually that is not quite true. No one even talks about Islam in our homes or schools or colleges. And calling Muslims Malechhas? Frankly speaking, I came across this term here on PDF. Before this I didnt even know that such a term existed. This is purely a Pakistani stereotype of India/Indians. This has nothing to do with us or our bias.

Most Indian history textbooks, for example, uncritically accepted the periodisation of history into the Hindu, Muslim and British periods. Hindu rulers were projected as having been tolerant and enlightened whereas Muslim rulers as bigoted and as the persecutors of Hindus. Another common bias, which flew in the face of all evidence, was that the Aryans were the original inhabitants of India.

High School Itihas Bhag 1: "The Indian society during the Sultanate period was divided into two main classes - ruling or Muslim class and ruled or non-Muslims of whom Hindus were the majority" (page 281). Or: "Hindu was merely the payer of taxes. In spite of being conquered in the political field, Hindus did not lose courage. To regain their lost independence, they went on raising their voice from time to time.

I dont understand what is so wrong about the History you quoted. Yes, Hinduism is native to India. Yes most rulers were Hindus. It is also true that Muslim rulers from elsewhere attacked the land and ruled it. Infact who knows most of your own ancestors might have been Hindus and forced to convert to Islam at the point of a sword. It is also true that Hindus were subjugated, temples were destroyed and people were brutalized. This is acknowledging historical fact. Not Islamaphobia.

In many schools Children, regardless of their religious background, have to recite the Saraswathi Vandana in the mornings and the Bhojan Mantra before their afternoon meal. Muslim children are often asked to lead the prayers. There are punishments meted out for not praying.

You guys are the biggest Islamophobes and the irony is that you don’t even know it.

I did my high school in India. We had prayers every morning, but it wasnt directed at any particular religion. It was always addressed to "God". Not to Allah, Jesus or Shiva or whatever. Such things also exist in other countries. For instance in the US people are protesting Christian references in the Pledge of Allegiance etc., I am not sure how this even relates to Islamaphobia.

Fact of the matter is you guys brought up to hate India. I am not saying this, your very own students said this recently when they travelled to India. You guys are probably the biggest Indophobes out there and you justify your bigotry by calling others Islamaphobic. Nice try. Read from your very own media:

‘Pakistan schools teach Hindu hatred’ | DAWN.COM

The study reviewed more than 100 textbooks from grades 1-10 from Pakistan’s four provinces.

Researchers in February this year visited 37 public schools, interviewing 277 students and teachers, and 19 madrases, where they interviewed 226 students and teachers.

The Islamisation of textbooks began under the US-backed rule of army dictator Gen. Zia-ul-Haq, who courted Islamists to support his rule.

In 2006, the government announced plans to reform the curriculum to address the problematic content, but that has not been done, the study said.

Pakistan’s Islamist and right-wing polity would likely oppose any efforts to change the curriculum, and the government has shown no desire to challenge them on the issue.

The report found systematic negative portrayals of minorities, especially Hindus and to a lesser extent to Christians.

 

[Ticker]

HAHAHAAHAAAHAAAAHAA



No enlightened muslim rulers were peacefully leaving on their lands it was intolerant hindu rulers from Saudi Arabia & middle east who invaded their kingdoms



RULING FEW STATES OF NORTH INDIA DOESNT MEAN RULING INDIA.



EMPEROR AKBAR SIGNED MANY TREATIES WITH RAJPOOTS & NON-MUSLIMS MAKING THEM RULERS OF SOME KINGDOMS TO KEEP DELHI SULTANATE AND LEAD A PEACEFUL LIFE



A true muslim with strong faith doesnt get effected by such acts meant for understanding other faiths.

Even Zakir Naik knows vedas-upnishads-puranas also Bible & has mastered Quran & Hadees. Is he less muslim then a TIN-HORN like you??

Also majority Hindus know 3 kalmas, they know five pillars of islam, they know about all Prophets , Mohammad (PBUH), his life, his teaching & even some hadiths, even know about ALI, they greet other fellow muslims with ASSALAM O ALAIKUM or WALAIKUM ASSALAM, they depart from muslim friends saying ALLAH HAFIZ or KHUDA HAFIZ

Thanks for this last part, you presented a example of yourself to explain what religious bigot is & look like as.

Your response amply clarifies and proves my viewpoint that for most of you bigotry is embedded in your system and you don't even know this. Thank you for proving me right.

 

[Ticker]

Actually that is not quite true. No one even talks about Islam in our homes or schools or colleges. And calling Muslims Malechhas? Frankly speaking, I came across this term here on PDF. Before this I didnt even know that such a term existed. This is purely a Pakistani stereotype of India/Indians. This has nothing to do with us or our bias.



I dont understand what is so wrong about the History you quoted. Yes, Hinduism is native to India. Yes most rulers were Hindus. It is also true that Muslim rulers from elsewhere attacked the land and ruled it. Infact who knows most of your own ancestors might have been Hindus and forced to convert to Islam at the point of a sword. It is also true that Hindus were subjugated, temples were destroyed and people were brutalized. This is acknowledging historical fact. Not Islamaphobia.



I did my high school in India. We had prayers every morning, but it wasnt directed at any particular religion. It was always addressed to "God". Not to Allah, Jesus or Shiva or whatever. Such things also exist in other countries. For instance in the US people are protesting Christian references in the Pledge of Allegiance etc., I am not sure how this even relates to Islamaphobia.

Fact of the matter is you guys brought up to hate India. I am not saying this, your very own students said this recently when they travelled to India. You guys are probably the biggest Indophobes out there and you justify your bigotry by calling others Islamaphobic. Nice try. Read from your very own media:

‘Pakistan schools teach Hindu hatred’ | DAWN.COM

Even you are accepting the same thing more or less. You don't even know that you guys are committing bigotry, the particular angle of communal history taught to you in such a manner that you have almost lost the sense to identify bigotry while you are committing it.

 

[AUz]

Then the only region that satisfied that criteria is Indian subcontinent. And obviously non-Muslims are better than Muslims.

You are more dumb than I previously thought. Africa , Asia-minor , South East Asia etc don't satisfy the condition? LOL!

Secondly , How come 'indians' are living a better life than Pakistanis? LOL....really? Both countries are in same ball-park when it comes to GDP per capita, health conditions , inflation etc...In some categories..india will be slight ahead of Pakistan..while in others...the opposite will be true...but over-all..both nations are in same league....unless you just take absolute numbers without taking account of the populations....which is expected from a dumbo like you.

The news you posted is messed up. Pictures tell a 1000 words. Isnt it. Ok lets have another graphic. Click this. Two thirds of Muslims DONT earn 50,000+. The % earning more than 50K is 41% according to this and PEW. And same goes for the education levels also.

Retardo...this is SAME source ...Open your link...see in down right corner...it says 'source : Pew forums' ...So you didn't give me any new information.....you just gave the SAME source with different link..who are you trying to fool, hairpin? LOL

Since you couldn't come up with any source..let me enlighten you further..

As you said..picture speak thousand words..Here you go ...A Gallop Survey on 'life evaluation' ... Muslims were just behind jews...60% of Muslims fall in the category of "thriving" when it comes to living in the United States...

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2011/0818/20110818_033302_muslim_day1_graphics.gif

Now buzz off may be?

Average global Muslim..again Muslim as a monolith...mongoose....the Muslim in Turkey or Malaysia or Qatar may live a life better than Indian..but then again a muslim from Afghanistan or Somalia or Bangladesh or Mali or Niger or Kyrgyztan lives in conditions worse than India. Such a basic concept not getting recepted.

Dumbass I know...that why I have been using the word "over-all" ...Over-all, OIC dwarfs little insignificant india...don't you get it? EU has 'Greece' in it..but if I say that EU is ahead of india..would that be wrong? Even though , financially , Greece is almost broke....Similarly , over-all , OIC dwarfs little backward indians...

Secondly, it were indians who used 'Muslim' as a monolith.. "Muslims are backward" ...well why your a$$ didn't burn then? lawl..

Average Muslim lives a WAY better life than backward indians..(Yes , I have taken Somalia and Afghanistan into account...but genius thats why I wrote 'average'...)

Your community is a living example.

I like this. Pandit by heritage, but Atheist by conviction.

Anyways , Pandit Sahib is reading the propaganda of Bill Warner....Hope he recognize that this just Islamophobic lies...

 

[kumarkumar1867]

Your response amply clarifies and proves my viewpoint that for most of you bigotry is embedded in your system and you don't even know this. Thank you for proving me right.

Yeah My Bad..

I should have talked according to level of your understanding.

Some educated illitrates cant understand what Scarcasm is.

Anyways, I am over all impressed by your logic & desperately wish to certify you with :

For all your BS & brain-farts about Indian Society when you dont know a damn about it !

PS: Notable thing is that you can never debate with my last post with logic about religious bigotary part.

 

[Wickerman]

Even you are accepting the same thing more or less. You don't even know that you guys are committing bigotry, the particular angle of communal history taught to you in such a manner that you have almost lost the sense to identify bigotry while you are committing it.

That is not communal history. That is history as it happened. In Pakistan of course everything is twisted and distorted history so I do understand why you feel that way.

 

[Ticker]

That is not communal history. That is history as it happened. In Pakistan of course everything is twisted and distorted history so I do understand why you feel that way.

And Sir, what I quoted in my post regarding the bigotry taught in Indian schools and colleges is not from Pakistan but what the Indian intellectuals themselves say. So it is not Pakistani point of view - it is Indian point of view as well.

The distortion was amply highlighted and I can quote further as well, but when you are not going to believe even your own - it is existential bigotry embedded in thought process and imbued since childhood. What more can I say.

 

[Wickerman]

And Sir, what I quoted in my post regarding the bigotry taught in Indian schools and colleges is not from Pakistan but what the Indian intellectuals themselves say. So it is not Pakistani point of view - it is Indian point of view as well.

The distortion was amply highlighted and I can quote further as well, but when you are not going to believe even your own - it is existential bigotry embedded in thought process and imbued since childhood. What more can I say.

Our schools dont teach anything that is false. There was a brief period during the BJP rule that NCERT was accused of printing "saffronized" texts. That was immediately revoked, and the secular nature of the textbooks were restored. Infact it was done in a rush and there was a shortage of textbooks due to that. That is not the case in Pakistan. I finished school before the BJP rule started, and I can tell you there was no "saffronized" version that we learned in history. Everything is presented objectively. Infact, the textbook wasn't even divided into Hindu, Muslim and British Periods. It is presented as continuous history.

Although history leans pro-India, since history itself is expressed as a point of view in any case, our textbooks dont talk about religion or "Muslims" separately. Infact to tell you the truth, there is a censorship of crimes committed by Muslim rulers. Maybe in the interest of community cohesion. The Mughal empire is talked about but ONLY the good things. About how Akbar was liberal, about the Taj Mahal and stuff like that. But NEVER any atrocities. So its more pro-Islam than you think it is. Infact, some have criticised Indian historians for not presenting injustices against Hindus, which is looked upon akin to holocaust denial.

 

[SQ8]

If the Islamic texts don't preach violence then there is no reason for someone to misunderstand its injunctions and kill others.

There is always reason, the Islamic texts are over 1400 years old and even back then they were considered "classical".
Do you expect everybody to be able to understand them without misunderstanding language?

Unless you expect a pre-schooler to understand nuclear chemistry easily on his first day of school, I find your argument highly illogical.
You need someone to build a base, so that a foundation may be built on it.

The problem today is the base that is being built and the builders.
Quite simply..what today's muftis are to the Islamic Teaching is petty clerks in the judicial system acting as judges.

 

[fast and furious]

Why rely on others when you have the proofs in front of you?

Read the Quaran, and then formulate a decision.

Sir,all the mentioned categories in my post claim to have read the Quaran and have not been able to build a consensus in 1400 years.

 

[fast and furious]

Then the only region that satisfied that criteria is Indian subcontinent. And obviously non-Muslims are better than Muslims.





No I live in the same US of A as you. Yeah and my martian friends praised the friendliness of the vulcans. You are talking about Pakistani chicks. Them who come out of their home in hijabs decked all pretty well but once the subway door closes yank them out and shove it in their bag to become the amreekan chick. LOL..get down to reality mian. You aint fooling anyone.




Unless they coming on that was our fault, I dont see the point in your cribbing. Its the same as you ignoring the fact many Muslim nations are blessed with abundant natural resources.



Yep. You you got it. If you are number literate, go read that figure and see where the Muslims come in the hierarchy. Cant be spoonfeeding every single step.



The news you posted is messed up. Pictures tell a 1000 words. Isnt it. Ok lets have another graphic. Click this. Two thirds of Muslims DONT earn 50,000+. The % earning more than 50K is 41% according to this and PEW. And same goes for the education levels also.



Average global Muslim..again Muslim as a monolith...mongoose....the Muslim in Turkey or Malaysia or Qatar may live a life better than Indian..but then again a muslim from Afghanistan or Somalia or Bangladesh or Mali or Niger or Kyrgyztan lives in conditions worse than India. Such a basic concept not getting recepted.



Your community is a living example.

Read all of your little duel going on with AUZ.You are wasting your time.You think he will compare Apple with Apples.

Some members on PDF start comparing Pakistan with India and quickly move to China,Saudi Arabia,Mars,SCO(Pakistan+China+Russia Vs India) when they come face to face with huge disparties in numbers.

Comparing OIC with India ? One point-EU is more orgainzed then OIC as confessed by AUZ.
Try touching a EU/Nato Nation and see what hits you back.

While as per the Conspiracy theorists USA has an agenda to reshape Middle east or the Muslim world and has entered more than 2 muslim countries affecting few more muslim countries.Even this cant get OIC to get organised or act or even issue a statement against these misadventures of USA.

Question- If it comes to that,will Turkey choose to be In OIC or EU ?

 

[Redbull]

There is always reason, the Islamic texts are over 1400 years old and even back then they were considered "classical".
Do you expect everybody to be able to understand them without misunderstanding language?

Unless you expect a pre-schooler to understand nuclear chemistry easily on his first day of school, I find your argument highly illogical.
You need someone to build a base, so that a foundation may be built on it.

The problem today is the base that is being built and the builders.
Quite simply..what today's muftis are to the Islamic Teaching is petty clerks in the judicial system acting as judges.

The hadith about not taking your priests and Rabbis as Gods, clearly vidicates that all have to read their religious texts and come to their own understanding.

If a person reads the Quran and starts killing people, then it's Gods fault for not making his message clear enough.

The idea that a God sends downs books which are so obscure as to make every one who reads it understand it differently makes no sense.

How hard was it of the perfect God to add the bit in bold "Kill the Kaafirs only in self-defence".

BTW, if the context is present, then Mullahs are not required.

 

[vsdoc]

Did I make a mistake of starting this thread?

Yes I did.

We are not ready for such a discussion.

We are kids with adult jobs.

Sheep.