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When coterminous Pakistan fought Alexander the Great and almost brought him down to his knees.

Okay. But age does not give me any especial rights so please feel free to say what you want to. Many young people grow to be to old fools so age is no surity of anything.

Which map? And what "monkey thread?


In Pakistani society, age warrants you much respect. Not in liberal and secular UK society though.

The map that I quoted from your post looks fabricated based on the wishes of someone with an agenda. It doesn't even make sense in a topographical sense.

Regarding the 'surrender monkey' thread, it was the was the one you opened begging to cease hostilities with the Indians and begging for their friendship. I found it disgusting.

@Kaptaan

I'm not sure where your origin lies in Pakistan, but I'm pretty sick of pseudo-experts on forums announcing things about Pakistan based on what they read. I am personally from Bahawalpur, which is close to the Indian border, but then again the border is nothing but desert. We have more Pathans/Baluch/Sindhis/Punjabis than 'Indian people' especially when one looks at the indigenous Saraiki population. But all of a sudden you experts on Pakistan start writing shit from things you read and come up with theories that you claim to be true whether they are or not.

This is the current culture on PDF that really pisses me off.

Take care.
 
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In Pakistani society, age warrants you much respect. Not in liberal and secular UK society though.
Yes, I hate to blow your assumptions but age is given more accordance in UK then in Pakistan. In Pakistan you get lots, lots, lots of freakin hot air. In UK they give no "hot air" but focus on the the actual "substance". Result. Pakistan is all talk but no real substance. That though is a subject that can be explored in another thread.

it was the was the one you opened begging to cease hostilities
I never beg. Never will. That was a invitation to explore the possibilities of peace. Keeping open mind and being pragmatic is a neccessary part of any nations collective intellect. It was a exploration of intellectual discussion. Not surrender of any kind.
 
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Yes, I hate to blow your assumptions but age is given more accordance in UK then in Pakistan. In Pakistan you get lots, lots, lots of freakin hot air. In UK they give no "hot air" but focus on the the actual "substance". Result. Pakistan is all talk but no real substance. That though is a subject that can be explored in another thread.

I never beg. Never will. That was a invitation to explore the possibilities of peace. Keeping open mind and being pragmatic is a neccessary part of any nations collective intellect. It was a exploration of intellectual discussion. Not surrender of any kind.


Anyone that disregards experience is an absolute fool. This is something that Pakistanis learn when growing up. There is no hot air about this, just simply fact.

Again sir, I must apologize for being an uncouth savage, but after the APS attacks or Peshawar School attacks, any resolution with the Indians is beyond me. It is apparent that they are out for our blood, and I am not going to bow down. Peace? Do they deserve it?


After looking at the extent of what they are willing to do to, I have not become a pacifist in any sense of the word. Again, maybe I am crazy, and people like you are sane. Perhaps I am even unable to dispute that. But from all honesty of my heart, I hold a grudge and it will never go away.

Look at it however you want.

Take care
 
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PORUS

The only information available on Porus is from Greek sources. Historians however have reasoned that based on his name and the location of his domain, Porus was likely to have been a descendant of the Puru tribe mentioned in the Rig Veda.[1][2]

The historian, Ishwari Prasad, noted that Porus might have been a Yaduvanshi Shoorsaini. He argued that Porus' vanguard soldiers carried a banner of Herakles whom Megasthenes—who travelled to India after Porus had been supplanted by Chandragupta—explicitly identified with the Shoorsainis of Mathura. This Herakles of Megasthenes and Arrian has been identified by some scholars as Krishna and by others as his elder brother Baladeva, who were both the ancestors and patron deities of Shoorsainis.[8][9][10][11] Iswhari Prashad and others, following his lead, found further support of this conclusion in the fact that a section of Shoorsainis were supposed to have migrated westwards to Punjab and modern Afghanistan from Mathura and Dvārakā, after Krishna's demise and had established new kingdoms there.[12][13]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porus


P
AURAVAS

Pauravas (Sanskrit: पौरव) was an ancient kingdom in the northwest Indian subcontinent, dating from at least 890 BC to 322 BC. The history of the Pauravas is contained in Hindu historical and religious texts.

In the 8th century BCE, the capital Hastinapur, was destroyed by a severe flood and King Nikasu built a new capital, Kosambi. With the rise of the Mahajanapada powers, the state fell into a steady decline during 5th and 4th centuries BCE.[1]

The origin of the Pauravas royals is quite ancient and pre-dates the Hindu epic, Mahabharata, which documents and is a main source of much of its history. The Hindu kings who descended from the Hindu God Chandra ("moon") were called Chandravanshi (or "of the lunar dynasty"). Yayati was a Chandravanshi king, with Puru and Yadu as two of his many sons. They were the founders of two main branches of the Chandravamsha; the Yadus, or Yadavas, were descendants of Yadu, and Pauravas were descendants of Puru.

The Pauravas had also existed earlier in the Vedic Ages. They were led by King Sudas, who fought off Persian invaders at the Battle of the Ten Kings.

The Pauravas were situated on or near the Indus river, where their monarchs grew rich and prosperous through trade. The Persian kings Darius and Xerxes claimed suzerainty over many of the Pauravas, but this claim was loose at best.The most powerful royal families, led by Ambhi and Porus, were conquered by the Greek Emperor Alexander the Great in 326 BC. Porus fought a fierce last stand against Alexander at the Battle of the Hydaspes. Alexander was not able to conquer the entire area due to his army refusing to fight the Nanda Empire further east. By 322 BCE, the region had been conquered by Chandragupta Maurya, a teenage adventurer from taxila, Gandhara and student of chanakya who later conquered the Nanda Empire and founded the Indian Maurya Empirewhich covered and stretched from the whole of present day Afghanistan, Pakistan, across to Bangladesh and northern Burma.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauravas


Conteminous PAKISTAN :lol:
 
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We have the warrior blood inside us. And it's not only Greeks we have resisted. Our Pakistani ancestors have resisted Greeks, Mongols, British and all the super powers of the time. Every super power of the time somehow messed with our ancestors like now a days USA is trying to mess with us. And previously it was Soviet Union not long ago. It's in our blood to resist the Super powers , defend our land and never bow in front of our enemies no matter how strong they are. Something which India needs to understand clearly
 
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We have the warrior blood inside us. And it's not only Greeks we have resisted. Our Pakistani ancestors have resisted Greeks, Mongols, British and all the super powers of the time. Every super power of the time somehow messed with our ancestors like now a days USA is trying to mess with us. And previously it was Soviet Union not long ago. It's in our blood to resist the Super powers , defend our land and never bow in front of our enemies no matter how strong they are. Something which India needs to understand clearly
That moment when every Pakistani start pretending like they are Superhuman.[emoji38]
 
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That moment when every Pakistani start pretending like they are Superhuman.[emoji38]
Well Indians always feel they are invincible . But in reality we find that Moghuls ruled India for 800 years, British ruled India for 100 years, Greeks almost ruled India (if it wasn't for our ancestors another hononary title of conqueror would had been added), Ghori humiliated prithiviraj, Mahmoud Glazi completely destroyed the most scared temple in somnath. So I am not sure what you Indians are proud of?
 
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PORUS

The only information available on Porus is from Greek sources. Historians however have reasoned that based on his name and the location of his domain, Porus was likely to have been a descendant of the Puru tribe mentioned in the Rig Veda.[1][2]

The historian, Ishwari Prasad, noted that Porus might have been a Yaduvanshi Shoorsaini. He argued that Porus' vanguard soldiers carried a banner of Herakles whom Megasthenes—who travelled to India after Porus had been supplanted by Chandragupta—explicitly identified with the Shoorsainis of Mathura. This Herakles of Megasthenes and Arrian has been identified by some scholars as Krishna and by others as his elder brother Baladeva, who were both the ancestors and patron deities of Shoorsainis.[8][9][10][11] Iswhari Prashad and others, following his lead, found further support of this conclusion in the fact that a section of Shoorsainis were supposed to have migrated westwards to Punjab and modern Afghanistan from Mathura and Dvārakā, after Krishna's demise and had established new kingdoms there.[12][13]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porus


P
AURAVAS

Pauravas (Sanskrit: पौरव) was an ancient kingdom in the northwest Indian subcontinent, dating from at least 890 BC to 322 BC. The history of the Pauravas is contained in Hindu historical and religious texts.

In the 8th century BCE, the capital Hastinapur, was destroyed by a severe flood and King Nikasu built a new capital, Kosambi. With the rise of the Mahajanapada powers, the state fell into a steady decline during 5th and 4th centuries BCE.[1]

The origin of the Pauravas royals is quite ancient and pre-dates the Hindu epic, Mahabharata, which documents and is a main source of much of its history. The Hindu kings who descended from the Hindu God Chandra ("moon") were called Chandravanshi (or "of the lunar dynasty"). Yayati was a Chandravanshi king, with Puru and Yadu as two of his many sons. They were the founders of two main branches of the Chandravamsha; the Yadus, or Yadavas, were descendants of Yadu, and Pauravas were descendants of Puru.

The Pauravas had also existed earlier in the Vedic Ages. They were led by King Sudas, who fought off Persian invaders at the Battle of the Ten Kings.

The Pauravas were situated on or near the Indus river, where their monarchs grew rich and prosperous through trade. The Persian kings Darius and Xerxes claimed suzerainty over many of the Pauravas, but this claim was loose at best.The most powerful royal families, led by Ambhi and Porus, were conquered by the Greek Emperor Alexander the Great in 326 BC. Porus fought a fierce last stand against Alexander at the Battle of the Hydaspes. Alexander was not able to conquer the entire area due to his army refusing to fight the Nanda Empire further east. By 322 BCE, the region had been conquered by Chandragupta Maurya, a teenage adventurer from taxila, Gandhara and student of chanakya who later conquered the Nanda Empire and founded the Indian Maurya Empirewhich covered and stretched from the whole of present day Afghanistan, Pakistan, across to Bangladesh and northern Burma.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauravas


Conteminous PAKISTAN :lol:



Take you vedic history and shove it in your backside, mate.


He was an ancient Punjabi from the lands which to date still form the major chunk of Pakistan Army personal. Its in the blood as they say. A continuation of Indus , ancient Pakistan.

You gangiyates better off finding your miserable beginning around your ganga basin. No harm in owing something, how awful or miserable it might be, coz it is yours.


On the topic. There seems to be confusion , as people are still in the awe of this darling of west, the blonde poster boy, Alexender "the great".

Let get some facts straight as to what happened.


1) Alexander and his armies only manage to come in the heartlands of ancient Pakistan when the ruler of Texilla Ambi, in his sheer anamosity and hatred for Porus, made a pack with Alexdener to destroy Porus in partnership. Ambi allowed Alexander the safe passage via Taxilla to reach river Jehlum. (This problem of trachery run deeps and still exist in modern day Pakistanis)

2) The depictions by Curtius, Justin, Diodorus, Arrian and Plutarch are quite consistent and reliable in concluding that Alexander was defeated by Porus and had to make a treaty with him to
save his and his soldiers` lives. He was a broken man at his return from his mis-adventures.

3) Mr E.A.W. Badge has included an account of "The Life and Exploits of Alexander" where he writes inter alia the following:

"In the battle of Jhelum a large majority of Alexander`s cavalry was killed. Alexander realized that if he were to continue fighting he would be completely ruined. He requested Porus to stop fighting. Porus was true to traditions and did not kill the surrendered enemy. After this both signed treaty, Alexander then helped him in annexing other territories to his kingdom".

Mr Badge further writes that the soldiers of Alexander were grief-stricken and they began to bewail the loss of their compatriots. They threw off their weapons. They expressed their strong desire to
surrender. They had no desire to fight. Alexander asked them to give up fighting and himself said,
"Porus, please pardon me. I have realized your bravery and strength. Now I cannot bear these agonies. WIth a sad heart I am planning to put an end to my life. I do not desire that my soldiers should also be ruined like me. I am that culprit who has thrust them into the jaw of death. It
does not become a king to thrust his soldiers into the jaws of death."

These expressions of `Alexander, The Great!` do not indicate from any stretch of imagination his victory over Porus? Can such words be uttered by a `World Conquerer"?


4) Alexnder is known to be a cruel man in history. He was neither a noble man nor did
he have a heart of gold. He had meted out very cruel and harsh treatment to his earlier enemies. Basus of Bactria fought tooth and nail with Alexander to defend the freedom of his motherland. When he was brought before Alexander as a prisoner, Alexander ordered his servants to whip
him and then cut off his nose and ears. He then killed him. Many Persian generals were killed by him.
The murder of Kalasthenese, nephew of Aristotle, was committed by Alexander because he criticised Alexander for foolishly imitating the Persian emperors. Alexander also murdered his friend Clytus in anger. His father`s trusted lieutenant Parmenian was also murdered by Alexander.

Considering above, its foolish to assume that Alexander just handover the lands of a "defeated" king and actually help him expand his rule. These are more of less, conditions imposed by Porus on Alexander until the later was given a safe passage down the indus towards the arabian sea, the easiest route back home for Alexander and his armies.

5) Alexander died of injuries later, sustained during this epic battle.

6) The events that followed this battle, clearly showed that the acts of Greek army was of one with tails firmly tucked between their legs and of a defeated army. They only stuck to the indus in their retreat, did not follow the same path where they came from i.e. Afghanistan, their path to Arabian sea without venturing out on lands. Thoughout their journey down indus, they were picked off. I was watching a documentary long time ago in which a historian was tracing the track of so called "victorious Alexander army". They were showing the skeleton of the Greek army Littered around the coast of Pakistan, which btw can still be found. They presented those as the ones died of "thrust" and "hunger". That is laughable. how can a victorious army die of hunger and thrist?? It more like a case of being "picked off" what remained of it.


7) Here we got the "world conquer" the destroyer of mighty persian empire, who headed to sub-continent to plunder its wealth and resources (as obvious from the letter exchanges between him and porus), yet for some very strange reason his charge to world dominance came to a grinding halt and he will make hasty exit through Indus downstream. Also, there are some other issues as well. Alexander was always protected by his elite bodyguards during the battles. Yet its a know fact that the horse he always used to ride, Bucephalus, died during the battle, so what about the rider? It is also known that Porus infact knock Alexander off his ride during battle which lead to his fatal injuries which also may have killed Bucephalus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucephalus

220px-Alexander_taming_Bucephalus_by_F._Schommer,_German,_late_19th_century.jpg


Arrian states, with Onesicritus as his source, that Bucephalus died at the age of thirty, a good age for a horse even today. Other sources, however, give as the cause of death not old age or weariness, but fatal injuries at the Battle of the Hydaspes (June 326 BC),
The modern-day town of Jalalpur Sharif, outside Jhelum, is said to be where Bucephalus is buried.


So again question is, if the horse got killed, what happened to the rider? If that is not too close for comfort for a Greek general and world conquerer then what it is?


8) What the elite somatophylax (bodyguards) of Alexander were doing when Porus was showboating and toying with Alexender?? Or were they just simply knocked out by Porus men? One can easily draw a consulion that no one could reach Alexdener without passing protection of his bodygaurds. Killing of Bucephalus is a clear indication as to what state Alexender and his army was in during the battle.

9) Another most intriguing side of this whole thing is, that before the battle, the Persian queen cum wife of Alexander, Roxanne, went to Porus personally and begged him for not to slay her husband during battle. Perhaps the reason why Alexender was "spared".

10) Greek historians went silent about this battle and its only after 300 years have gone by, when the bones of Alexder and Porus went to dust, they wrote the account of battle on how the "gracious" Alexdener give Porus his lands back admiring his bravery!! Anceint Pakistan was his last and fatal campaign where his juggernaut was brought to a rather rude and brutal stop.


There should be no question in Pakistani minds that our ancestors uprooted the tyrant and super power of that time. We did the same in recent past, and we are doing the same as we speak. Its is in our blood, and perhaps the reason why Almighty created us.
 
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Well Indians always feel they are invincible . But in reality we find that Moghuls ruled India for 800 years, British ruled India for 100 years, Greeks almost ruled India (if it wasn't for our ancestors another hononary title of conqueror would had been added), Ghori humiliated prithiviraj, Mahmoud Glazi completely destroyed the most scared temple in somnath. So I am not sure what you Indians are proud of?

Let me Guess, Mughals were not your ancestors, British were not your ancestors, Greeks were not your ancestors. You are probably of same stock as of many NI and NWI. Your ancestors probably converted to Islam because of fear of death. So what are you proud of? Now taking about myself. My ancestors killed those Nawabs who used to rule small parts of United Punjab, because they were very cruel. If you go more deep into history, my ancestors used to rule Lahore. Now that's why I am proud.
 
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Glory hunters.
I don't hunt for any glory. My ancestors are neither Aryans nor IVC's.

And just read the comments man. Your own fellas denounced your history, and started calling the OP as some Hindu apologist historian.

The glory hunters are those who bend the history on their own will. King Purushottam (Porus) was a great warrior of his time. He defended his land and he lost. It has nothing to do with Pakistan, and the former Kings who ruled around the this subcontinent has nothing to do with any of the regions. They were just one in millions or reasons for what what it is now different nations in the region and they left stories and monuments that tells a lot of stories. We can learn and follow rather than fighting for right to bear the lamp.
 
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I don't hunt for any glory. My ancestors are neither Aryans nor IVC's.

And just read the comments man. Your own fellas denounced your history, and started calling the OP as some Hindu apologist historian.

The glory hunters are those who bend the history on their own will. King Purushottam (Porus) was a great warrior of his time. He defended his land and he lost. It has nothing to do with Pakistan, and the former Kings who ruled around the this subcontinent has nothing to do with any of the regions. They were just one in millions or reasons for what what it is now different nations in the region and they left stories and monuments that tells a lot of stories. We can learn and follow rather than fighting for right to bear the lamp.

Its quite funny to read the vedic history and its fanboys try to find the similarities, if there any, in the names, words, expressions and somehow link to their own ancestry. Porus = Purushottam, nice try !

Since the Syrians or the Jews will not owe the Egyptian civilization because, though, their lands were once subject of Egyptian/Nile rule, they were end of the day, the subjects. If you can understand this fact, you will also understand your relationship with the land of Indus (aka Pakistan). You were the subjects of Indus or its product, if you happen to be in current western India. your relationship with it is by occupation, geographical expansion, while the inhibitants of Indus are the onces who build it , and governed it. Porus like many others was son of soil, and you gangiyates can take your inspirations from him like that spartan king Leonidas, but, you dont owe him.
 
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