When coterminous Pakistan fought Alexander the Great and almost brought him down to his knees.

[Suriya]

@Kaptaan How will coterminous Pakistan stop india from doing this ??
A famous song from the movie Sikandar-E-Azam sang by Mohd. Rafi born in coterminous Pakistan .

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Are you in a position to do a write-up of pros and cons of Elephants in warfare?

Elephants in my opinion are useless against a determined and organized foe. They are more of show then anything else. From military point of view they are too slow, too cumbersome and need massive amount of food anmd water to sustain them reducing their operational areas even more. The horse is unmatched as cavalry. It has speed, mobility and wide range ability. I actually don't believe the Greek accounts a to number of soldiers porus had or number of elephants. I think they exaggerated them to make their victory look awesome. However elephants do catch the popular imagination and have resonated through history. In the real world horse cavalry dominated the battlfield until the tank came along.

stop india from doing this

There is no cure for delusion. Sorry.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

exactly one of the biggest things that separate modern India and Pakistan is the non availability of two of the most iconic animals of India in Pakistan even far back in history------------Tiger and Elephant

and only a small pocket of Pak-Punjab hosted rhinos in medieval times while in contrast whole of North Indian plains used to host them

There is a medium level distinction between India and Pakistan...the clues are there for everybody to pick up

 

[Corona]

If anyone wants to learn a bit more about Alexander's conquests and battles, you could try this guy's videos. He covered Europe and Persia so far. He hasn't gotten to South Asia yet but still interesting.

 

[313ghazi]

@Kaptaan great topic.

 

[.]

Great read .........Thanks OP.
How did he manage to cross modern day dir district ,I travel through both upper and lower dir to chitral my hometown and find it hard to believe you could not get lost midst those many mountain belts.

Most likely his army entered Pakistan through Khyber Pass.


Guys don't fool yourself Pakstanis don't have any Greek blood ,Even the Kailash were rumored to be but DNA tests in 2007 and 2004 proved them to be more diverse race than predominately greek.

 

[Rafi]

In 326BC Alexander the Great with his Greek and Macedonian army invaded coterminous Pakistan. Our anscestors fought like lions and almost killed him in what is now Multan. By the time he left our land large part of his army was destroyed. So this thread is to celebrate our ancestors who fought to protect our sacred Indus region and also the brave Alexander. It was the first meeting of coterminous Pakistan with the West. In the subsequent centuries Greek culture and civilization took root in Gandhara region of coterminous of Pakistan which is modern North West Pakistan. I was pleasently surprised to find that Pakistan Army Museum celebrates Alexander and Porus and the Battle of Hydaspes. Image below.

One of histories greatest conquerors certainly left coterminous Pakistan with respect for ancestors fighting abilities. Not many people can claim in to have tangled with Alexander the Great and given him rough time like we did. What is so unique about Alexander's campaign in coterminous Pakistan is that it touched almost all our people. Every province and most districts of Pakikstan felt the force of the Greek Army. Some of us joined him. Some of us fought against him but either way it was making of history. Books are still being written about it over 2000 years later.

For the first time coterminous Pakistan fortified by the mighty River Indus was joined to a vast empire that connected us with Greece and all countries in between.

Look at the map below and see if your district in Pakistan was involved in one of histories greatest moments. The route map of Alexander the Great is approximate.

The approximate route of invasion was Khyber Pass, Peshawar, cross the Indus near Attock, Taxila/Islamabad, Jhelum where Porus fought Alexander on the banks of River Jhelum or what the Greeks called Hydaspes. He then moved east to near Lahore crossing the border near Amritsar but then the Greeks turned back into coterminous Pakistan. This is proximate to the GT road axis. Returning back to Jhelum they sailed down the river to Multan where the fierce Mallians almost killed Alexander the Great.

Then sailing down into Sindh near Karachi Alexander had one of his generals survey mouth of the Indus River. He himself then marched along what is now the Mekran Highway past Gwadar into Iran.


Monument to Battle of Hydaspes. Jalalpur Sharif, Jhelum, Pakistan.

@Chinese-Dragon Please let your Chinese members know about this part of Ancient Pakistan's history. Thanks @AUSTERLITZ @Magnum Opus @KediKesenFare @HAKIKAT @EgyptianAmerican @xenon54 etc


https://tribune.com.pk/story/1502658/army-museum-opens-doors-public-lahore/

Brother a subject close to my heart, my ancestor Manga was a cavalry commander in Porus's Army. My people take great inspiration from him, and invoke his spirit of bravery and martial aptitude, of duty to nation and honor in fighting and if necessary dying in its honor.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Are you in a position to do a write-up of pros and cons of Elephants in warfare? I wonder why didnot Porous use camels? Did the dromedary camel still not arrive there or was it still not bred to perfection for warfare purposes? Quite frankly Porous should have stocked up on more cavalry...if the Bactrian/Sogdian people had not accompanied Alexander, he would have been basically toast stuck on the ivory teeth of Porous' elephants

Elephants were not really effective against the Macedonians who had encountered them before and had come up with various tactics and methods to take down these beasts.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Most likely his army entered Pakistan through Khyber Pass.

Alexander split his force into two portion. One element went through the Khyber Pass to coterminous Pakistan and the other went north along the Kunar valley and then passed over into Bajaur/Dir or maybe even Chitral and then moved south along Swat down to Indus and then joined rest of the Greeks near Hund to cross the Indus River on to Taxila near present day Islamabad. Of course there is no way of knowing exactly the routes the Greeks took.

My people

Thanks for that. Are you from Jhelum area?

exactly one of the biggest things that separate modern India and Pakistan is the non availability of two of the most iconic animals of India in Pakistan

The biggest factor here that people overlook is climate. Temperature and rain. Rain or lack of rain will create entirely differant environments. Most of Pakistan is semi- arid or desert and that makes the differance in climate, flora and fauna.

Elephants were not really effective

Elephants were not effective against most conquerers from the West. Like I said before they are more of a show and grab the popular imagination. They have limited military efficacy as history tells us.

And thanks to all for the positive comments. Although this [below] was posted before but I think it belongs here as well.


Pakistan unearths city defeated by Alexander the Great
PPPI
September 05, 2016
AMAZING

KARACHI/ROME: Pakistan has unearthed the city defeated by Alexander the Great.

The ruins that Italian archaeologists have unearthed in modern-day Barikot, in Pakistan´s Swat valley, once belonged to Bazira, the city conquered by Alexander the Great.

The finding, of which AGI news agency is giving a preview, was confirmed by the tests that have just been carried out.

In short, Italian archaeologists working in the Italian-Pakistani excavations in the Swat valley did not go on vacation this summer.

The Italian Archaeological Mission (renamed ISMEO), founded by Giuseppe Tucci in the Swat District in 1955, has been excavating in Barikot since 1984. The ISMEO has continued to be operational and has celebrated its 60th year of activity last November with a cycle of conferences and exhibitions in China, a Country very close to Pakistan.

Since 2011 the excavations at Barikot, the ancient Bazira (12 hectares including the acropolis) have concentrated on approximately one hectare in the south-western quadrant of the city. The excavations, which are conducted by ISMEO in partnership with Directorate of Archaeology and Museums of the Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa Province, are financed through the ACT Project under the debt conversion agreement between Italy and Pakistan.

Bazira is mentioned in classical sources as having been put under siege and conquered by the Macedonians led by Alexander the Great towards the end of the 4th Century BC. Up to now there had been no trace of this ancient city. Archaeologists had dated the city at the Indo-Greek period of King Menander, the Greek King of Buddhist faith who ruled almost two centuries after Alexander and whose coins were found in the excavation site.

During the last few weeks, an analysis of the materials conducted with the help of the CIRCE team headed by Prof Filippo Terrasi (Napoli2 University, Department of Mathematics and Physics) revealed that the pre Indo-Greek city levels can be dated with absolute certainty at the middle of the 3rd Century BC, one century prior to the city walls, which means in the middle of the Mauryan period. And that´s not all: the protohistoric village unveiled by the trench foundations outside the city walls dates back to 1100-1000 BC.

"Today it is clear that the Indo-Greeks fortified a city that already existed and that, in order to build the city walls, they destroyed most of the stratigraphy and exposed extremely ancient structures through extended and deep terracing work. We used to think that the city lays on nothing more than a late protohistoric settlement. Today we know that it was already a city and that the ruins at the foot of the walls are 800 years older than we had originally thought," said the Mission Director, Luca M. Olivieri.
https://www.geo.tv/latest/113633-Pakistan-unearths-city-defeated-by-Alexander-the-Great

 

[saurav jha]

Nice read

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

It seems there might have been a degeneration of civilization in the Frontier Province and Chitral from 300 BC to Middle Ages and concurrently an explosion of high culture in the plains of Punjab and Sindh in the same time...you see big castles, mosques in Lahore or Sindh...but Peshawar seems to have seen little building since the demise of the Kushanas..and that goes for rest of NWFP and Chitral as well....

 

[Rafi]

Alexander split his force into two portion. One element went through the Khyber Pass to coterminous Pakistan and the other went north along the Kunar valley and then passed over into Bajaur/Dir or maybe even Chitral and then moved south along Swat down to Indus and then joined rest of the Greeks near Hund to cross the Indus River on to Taxila near present day Islamabad. Of course there is no way of knowing exactly the routes the Greeks took.

Thanks for that. Are you from Jhelum area?

The biggest factor here that people overlook is climate. Temperature and rain. Rain or lack of rain will create entirely differant environments. Most of Pakistan is semi- arid or desert and that makes the differance in climate, flora and fauna.

Elephants were not effective against most conquerers from the West. Like I said before they are more of a show and grab the popular imagination. They have limited military efficacy as history tells us.

And thanks to all for the positive comments. Although this [below] was posted before but I think it belongs here as well.


Pakistan unearths city defeated by Alexander the Great
PPPI
September 05, 2016
AMAZING

KARACHI/ROME: Pakistan has unearthed the city defeated by Alexander the Great.

The ruins that Italian archaeologists have unearthed in modern-day Barikot, in Pakistan´s Swat valley, once belonged to Bazira, the city conquered by Alexander the Great.

The finding, of which AGI news agency is giving a preview, was confirmed by the tests that have just been carried out.

In short, Italian archaeologists working in the Italian-Pakistani excavations in the Swat valley did not go on vacation this summer.

The Italian Archaeological Mission (renamed ISMEO), founded by Giuseppe Tucci in the Swat District in 1955, has been excavating in Barikot since 1984. The ISMEO has continued to be operational and has celebrated its 60th year of activity last November with a cycle of conferences and exhibitions in China, a Country very close to Pakistan.

Since 2011 the excavations at Barikot, the ancient Bazira (12 hectares including the acropolis) have concentrated on approximately one hectare in the south-western quadrant of the city. The excavations, which are conducted by ISMEO in partnership with Directorate of Archaeology and Museums of the Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa Province, are financed through the ACT Project under the debt conversion agreement between Italy and Pakistan.

Bazira is mentioned in classical sources as having been put under siege and conquered by the Macedonians led by Alexander the Great towards the end of the 4th Century BC. Up to now there had been no trace of this ancient city. Archaeologists had dated the city at the Indo-Greek period of King Menander, the Greek King of Buddhist faith who ruled almost two centuries after Alexander and whose coins were found in the excavation site.

During the last few weeks, an analysis of the materials conducted with the help of the CIRCE team headed by Prof Filippo Terrasi (Napoli2 University, Department of Mathematics and Physics) revealed that the pre Indo-Greek city levels can be dated with absolute certainty at the middle of the 3rd Century BC, one century prior to the city walls, which means in the middle of the Mauryan period. And that´s not all: the protohistoric village unveiled by the trench foundations outside the city walls dates back to 1100-1000 BC.

"Today it is clear that the Indo-Greeks fortified a city that already existed and that, in order to build the city walls, they destroyed most of the stratigraphy and exposed extremely ancient structures through extended and deep terracing work. We used to think that the city lays on nothing more than a late protohistoric settlement. Today we know that it was already a city and that the ruins at the foot of the walls are 800 years older than we had originally thought," said the Mission Director, Luca M. Olivieri.
https://www.geo.tv/latest/113633-Pakistan-unearths-city-defeated-by-Alexander-the-Great

Yes my Clan is from Jhelum, my people have been in the Armed Forces, for hundreds of years. Manga and the Sufi Saint that converted us, is what we pay homage to when we start our career of service.

I have a thread which is a few years old, where we discussed the monument that features in your first post.

 

[New World]

In our country a few days ago, a Chief Minister was claiming that we should not promote the Taj Mahal as much as we do. And a lot of Indians cheered. Perhaps we must also embrace our history and our monuments and figures with fervor. If we are selective, can we really blame others?

the process has already being started to Degrade, Disregard and Disown things which were either made by Mughal kings or their names are given to things..
1st Aurangzeb road, 2nd Akbar road and now taj mahal..

 

[xyxmt]

I wrote this a while back on now defunct Pakistani defense forum.

http://forum.********************/index.php?showtopic=91310




About time state should recognize Porus and his contributions towards protect the sovereignty of our lands. He should be to us Pakistanis as what Leonidas is in ancient Greek history. Infact his stature should be much much higher as he was not only fighting the world greatest army against all odds, but other regions as well who conspired against him while siding with the Greeks.

Who kicked whose arse can be understood by the fact the Greek historian went quite about this war only to mention about it 300 years after the event, that is three centuries, completely twisting facts and realities.

Standing at 7 foot tall, what a personality and man he would be, leading his small army against the super power of the time. Someone needs to make another 300 but this time around with the Greeks on the receiving end.

History is about to repeat itself with same people lined up to destroy yet another "shupa pawa"
I say same people because people from same area are majority in Pakistan army

 

[defence_analyst]

Yes my Clan is from Jhelum, my people have been in the Armed Forces, for hundreds of years. Manga and the Sufi Saint that converted us, is what we pay homage to when we start our career of service.

I have a thread which is a few years old, where we discussed the monument that features in your first post.

Bro your people allied with Alexander, didn't fight him. I'm here to take care of wrong history. Look up map and where Porus kingdom is located and where Ambhi kingdom was.