Whatever

[M. Sarmad]

So if he didn't die on the cross then where did he go lol?

The only logical solutions if that he's either on Earth or in the Heavens?

Jesus not dying on the cross that day does not automatically imply that he did not die later, or that he is still alive in the heavens.

I hope you realize that Your own assumptions, or the assumptions by those whom you follow, or what you call "logic", do not carry the same weight as clear Quranic verses

 

[Itachi]

Jesus not dying on the cross that day does not automatically imply that he did not die later, or that he is still alive in the heavens.

I hope you realize that Your own assumptions, or the assumptions by those whom you follow, or what you call "logic", do not carry the same weight as clear Quranic verses

Sure, tell me then what happened to Isa R.A.? Does the Quran tell you about his whereabouts or the Hadith?

Would I rather take your words or the words of the the great scholars of Islam like Al-Ghazali & Bukhari?

Did you also check the youtube vids I posted?

 

[M. Sarmad]

They also believe that the Hadiths came into being 300 years after the death of the Prophet SAW.....but you're being more lenient in saying that they into being 200 years

It's a well documented historical fact that the Sihah Sitta were compiled after more than two hundred years of the demise of the Holy Prophet PBUH. Read on it.

 

[I.R.A]

So if he didn't die on the cross then where did he go lol?

He died a normal death. Like any other Messenger and human.

By the way, are you a Quranist? Your arguments seem like that. A Quransit is someone that believes only in the Quran & rejects the religious authority, reliability & authenticity of the Hadith. They believe that you only ever need the Quran, no scholars, no tafsir, no explanation or whatever.

Aren't you a Quranist?

Have you read the traditions / narrations yourself? Do you exactly know the background? e.g. can you inform us how many narrations did Bukhari originally collect and how many he retained? and based on what authority?

There is this practice called "Tasreef ul ayat" ........ don't approach Quran as some book for Sawab approach Quran with aim of learning .... making notes reading together all verses related to a topic in one place.

They also believe that the Hadiths came into being 300 years after the death of the Prophet SAW.....but you're being more lenient in saying that they into being 200 years

Abu Bakar, Umar they burnt their collections of Messenger's sayings, it is mentioned in these very books of Ahadees that Messenger Forbade his companions to write down anything other than Quran. Abu Huraira only spent two and half years with Messenger, and during time of Omar, Abu Huraira was reprimanded for his spreading the narrations.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I can write a 10 page essay on this but if there's only one or two persons reading it & no $$ then what's the point.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @M. Sarmad curious thing came up while I was looking back at my bookmarks regarding Qiyamah & Dajjal.....one of the minor signs of the coming of the Qiyamah is the rejection of the Hadith. Well what do you know

Unfortunately these days, some Pakistani and Indian posters have been reporting every thread on Islam.

It's kind of funny how we have a nation founded on Islam and yet religious discussion is banned on this forum.

It doesn't represent Pakistan.

Interesting coincidence about rejection of hadith in yawm al aakhir/last days, and I feel like it is getting more common with pressure from the West and heretic groups in Muslim countries.

Ahlus Sunnah wa'al jamaat (orthodox Sunni Muslims) believe in 3 sources of Islamic knowledge. Quran, Sunnah (hadith,) and ijma/consensus of the ulema (esp 4 mazhabs.)

 

[Itachi]

He died a normal death. Like any other Messenger and human.

Source? You're literally going against what 99% of Muslims on this planet believe lol

Aren't you a Quranist?

Do you even know the definition of one?

Abu Bakar, Umar they burnt their collections of Messenger's sayings, it is mentioned in these very books of Ahadees that Messenger Forbade his companions to write down anything other than Quran. Abu Huraira only spent two and half years with Messenger, and during time of Omar, Abu Huraira was reprimanded for his spreading the narrations.

Source again? This is not very convincing stuff.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Aren't you a Quranist?

Orthodox Sunnis don't consider Quranists as Muslims because they reject hadith (which they view as rejection of Rasulullah saws.)

 

[Itachi]

I feel like it is getting more common with pressure from the West and heretic groups in Muslim countries.

Yes, this plays a big part. For example, look at the Saudi fatwa issuers...they're controlled by their gov. to issue any fatwa the gov. deals ideal.

Ahlus Sunnah wa'al jamaat (orthodox Sunni Muslims) believe in 3 sources of Islamic knowledge. Quran, Sunnah (hadith,) and ijma/consensus of the ulema (esp 4 mazhabs.)

Yea, I don't know what these guys are smoking or what sect they belong to.

It's a well documented historical fact that the Sihah Sitta were compiled after more than two hundred years of the demise of the Holy Prophet PBUH. Read on it.

Bruh....I'm not disputing that

Everything else you wrote? Hell yea

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Yea, I don't know what these guys are smoking or what sect they belong to.

Everyone will face Allah swt alone, including us. Wish the best for all of us here (regardless of differences,) Jannatul firdos, and Allah swt forgive our shortcomings. None of us are perfect.

@Itachi Are you interested in Ancient Pakistan History? I am doing a series on it, if you are interested, I will tag you.

 

[Itachi]

Everyone will face Allah swt alone, including us. Wish the best for all of us here (regardless of differences,) Jannatul firdos, and Allah swt forgive our shortcomings. None of us are perfect.

Yes, In Sha Allah. All I came here for is bashing general ignorance surrounding Dajjal & the return of Isa ibn Maryam R.A. & I'm not saying I'm 100% correct, no one is. But let's see if we can continue to have a civil discussion as we have been or if shit hits the fan & I have to stop talking on this subject.

Are you interested in Ancient Pakistan History? I am doing a series on it, if you are interested, I will tag you.

YES! I'm definitely interested in anything that has the words "History" or "Pakistan" in it

Please tag me in any future threads regarding any of the above.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Yes, In Sha Allah. All I came here for is bashing general ignorance surrounding Dajjal & the return of Isa ibn Maryam R.A. & I'm not saying I'm 100% correct, no one is. But let's see if we can continue to have a civil discussion as we have been or if shit hits the fan & I have to stop talking on this subject.

All threads related to those topics have been derailed and end up getting blocked. Some people don't want us to discuss them, especially Indians when we talk about Ghazwa e Hind.

YES! I'm definitely interested in anything that has the words "History" or "Pakistan" in it

Please tag me in any future threads regarding any of the above.

Ok, in sha Allah, I will tag you.

 

[I.R.A]

Source? You're literally going against what 99% of Muslims on this planet believe lol

Quran. Read it the way it should be read my dear.

Do you even know the definition of one?

Its a concocted term coined by people who feel insecure. Else no one claim to be a Muslim and say he is not Quranist.

Source again? This is not very convincing stuff.

If you are asking me for a Friday sermon ...... I am sorry my dear that is not my specialty. Books are available read them.

What if I tell you with proof that narrations were designed as a mix of saying something good and then subliminally disrespect, insult and malign Messenger Peace be upon him, his wives and companions?

Orthodox Sunnis don't consider Quranists as Muslims because they reject hadith (which they view as rejection of Rasulullah saws.)

Ask the orthodox sunnis ...... if sects are anything but Islam.

There are five conditions for anyone to be a Muslim and those are very clearly mentioned in Quran

• Belief in ALLAH
• Belief in Angels
• Belief in all Messengers
• Belief in all Divine books
• And belief in day of judgement

I am not worried.

 

[Itachi]

All threads related to those topics have been derailed and end up getting blocked. Some people don't want us to discuss them, especially Indians when we talk about Ghazwa e Hind.

Yea, that's why I'm talking here. Lesser chances of getting a heated debate or any trash talkers.

As new/better rules are introduced to this forum (hopefully) I hope/wish we'll be able to discuss religion & it's different facets without trolling & whatnot.

Ok, in sha Allah, I will tag you.

JazakAllah bro.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Sure, tell me then what happened to Isa R.A.? Does the Quran tell you about his whereabouts or the Hadith?

Would I rather take your words or the words of the the great scholars of Islam like Al-Ghazali & Bukhari?

For me, word of Allah is more important than that of Bukhari or Ghazali.

While there is absolutely nothing in the Qur'an telling us that Jesus is alive in the heavens, there indeed are various verses which tell us that he was like the rest of prophets:

"The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; messengers before him had indeed passed away." (5:75)

"And Muhammad is only a messenger — messengers have already passed away before him. If, then, he dies or is killed, will you turn back upon your heels?" (3:143)


.' ...I was a witness to them as long as I lived among them. After You caused me to die(تَوَفَّيْتَنِي), You were the Watcher over them and You are Witness over all things and events." (5:117)


====

"Thus the Quran categorically denies the story of the crucifixion of Jesus. There exist, among Muslims, many fanciful legends telling us that at the last moment God substituted for Jesus a person closely resembling him (according to some accounts, that person was Judas), who was subsequently crucified in his place. However, none of these legends finds the slightest support in the Quran or in authentic Traditions, and the stories produced in this connection by the classical commentators of the Quran must be summarily rejected."

"Nowhere in the Quran is there any warrant for the popular belief of many Muslims that God has ‘taken up’ Jesus bodily into heaven." - Muhammad Asad


"There is no authority in the Quran or the Sunna which can satisfy the heart upon the belief that Jesus was taken up to heaven with his body and that he is still alive there and that he shall descend therefrom to earth in the last days." - Muhammad Shaltut

 

[Itachi]

Quran. Read it the way it should be read my dear.

Where does it say in the Quran that Isa R.A. died a natural death? I think I was reading a different translated copy of the Quran the whole time.....can you share your copy?

Its a concocted term coined by people who feel insecure. Else no one claim to be a Muslim and say he is not Quranist.

The term was introduced long before English was even a language, back in the days of Al-Ghazali. So I don't know who's insecure

What if I tell you with proof that narrations were designed as a mix of saying something good and then subliminally disrespect, insult and malign Messenger Peace be upon him, his wives and companions?

What? lol post the evidence bro.

I am not worried.

You should be....

Cuz there are 6....SIX articles of Faith....not 5...and I'm supposed to believe that everything else you wrote is factual?

• Belief in ALLAH
• Belief in Angels
• Belief in all Messengers
• Belief in all Divine books
• And belief in day of judgement
• And Divine Will

You done it good now bro....

Now pls don't quote me again. This discussion was just between me & @M. Sarmad if you don't like what I'm posting just ignore me