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@MastanKhan @Cookie Monster excellent analysis and posts on why Germans lost WW II.

Really impressed with detailed analysis from Cookie Monster.


BUT, LETS STAY ON TOPIC PLEASE.
I think there will be a general aviation thread where we can move this discussion (Do tag me if you decide to do it)
I don't intend to take this thread too off topic...it was just a one off...I couldn't resist replying. I'm a big history fan especially when it comes to past wars/battles. I love looking at the strategies/tactics employed, blunders, limitations, circumstances, etc. Analyses of battles from the ancient times of Alexander and Hannibal...all the way up to the present day is among one of my favorite things to do. If someone does open that thread u suggested I would love to discuss these sorts of things.
 
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I don't intend to take this thread too off topic...it was just a one off...I couldn't resist replying. I'm a big history fan especially when it comes to past wars/battles. I love looking at the strategies/tactics employed, blunders, limitations, circumstances, etc. Analyses of battles from the ancient times of Alexander and Hannibal...all the way up to the present day is among one of my favorite things to do. If someone does open that thread u suggested I would love to discuss these sorts of things.
Watch rugby my friend. You will see many of the moves there.
 
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I disagree...I don't mean to play down the importance of the Air Force. In today's world any nation without a potent air force to defend its skies would be at the mercy of its enemy with a capable air force.

However the reason why Germany lost in WWII had a lot of factors and losing air superiority was way down on the list. Among the reasons that played the biggest role are
1) Tactical/strategical blunder of starting a second front with USSR(underestimating it and expecting a quick victory)...which effectively meant splitting of forces, materials, creating another supply chain, etc.
2) The sheer number of countries(with their own economies, industrial might, number of troops/tanks/etc.) that Germany was facing. Though Germany was marvelously at the forefront of about everything latest and greatest...it's just way too hard to fight so many different countries alone and come out on top.
3) Due to the second reason above...the attrition rate was just too much for Germany in terms of troops and equipment. Germany's population and industrial output couldn't replace the soldiers and equipment at the rate at which it was losing it.
4) Hitler's insistence on quality vs quantity...Germany went through so many iterative upgrades of its tanks, missiles, aircrafts instead of mass producing a tried and true design. This condition of being in somewhat of an eternal R&D really proved disadvantageous in comparison to USSR's approach of overwhelming Germany with sheer numbers. German tanks were much superior to Russian tanks but Russia made them in such a quantity that they could afford to lose more tanks and still have an advantage. Russians employed simpler techniques to deal with issues like for example the pins in the tracks of Russian tanks were prone to get loose and pop out...they simply had their troops carry hammers so they would hammer the pins back in every now and then. This kind of simpler approach was also used by Beatrice Shilling who employed an RAE restrictor to solve the engine stall problem for RAF fighters(during negative G maneuvers)...so that they could continue to use their current fighters with just a minor upgrade that could be achieved quickly.

For point 1...if Germany hadn't started a second front, it wouldn't have suffered all the casualties it suffered on the eastern front. It wouldn't have had its resources and troop strength bogged down on the eastern front and could concentrate all its might on the western front. Since France fell quickly, Germany could've focused more on its Navy/Air Force to gain supremacy on British Air Force and Navy...which would've enabled it to mount an amphibious attack on Britain and end the stalemate there before US even had a chance to enter with full force. Even if Germany would've still lost in this scenario, it would've taken much longer for the Allies to defeat Germany.

Point 2, 3, and 4 all tie together. The superior quality of German equipment just could not match the quantity of combined allied equipment(tanks, aircrafts, etc). Germany also hampered itself by not going for mass quantity(relatively speaking when compared to Russian approach) and instead kept trying to one up the enemies with quality. This further made it impossible to keep up with the attrition Germany was facing.

Hi,

You can disagree as much as you want to---ain't gonna change nothing---.

Air superiority gave the allies the access to strike the german industrial complex---the destruction of the industry was the reason for defeat.

If there was no air superiority---the german industrial complex would have stayed intact---the war would have gone into a stalemate headed towards a cease fire and a peace deal---.
 
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@Arsalan it looks like it's not ending here. So I will need ur services to move this discussion to a more appropriate thread. Sorry for the inconvenience of creating more work for u.
Hi,

You can disagree as much as you want to---ain't gonna change nothing---.

Air superiority gave the allies the access to strike the german industrial complex---the destruction of the industry was the reason for defeat.

If there was no air superiority---the german industrial complex would have stayed intact---the war would have gone into a stalemate headed towards a cease fire and a peace deal---.
If u would read my post again u would see that I never denied that the air superiority of Allied powers over the Luftwaffe enabled the destruction of Germany's industrial war capacity. Indeed that happened and it put Germany at even more of a disadvantage.

My disagreement is based on the conclusion u have drawn as seen in that bold part of ur post I quoted.

The war wouldn't have gone into stalemate and a peace deal. Britain and USSR had already gone into a stalemate with Germany even before US entered the war. Germany still would've lost all the same...at best it might've taken a bit more time. The three points below(italicized) in support of this argument are verifiable facts.
- The Allies decidedly gave the European Theatre more importance. Their main goal was to defeat Germany first before focusing on the Pacific Theatre.
--> The allied powers were hell bent on defeating Germany first at all costs.
- The combined war capacity/industrial might/GDP of Allied powers was much more even from the onset of the war than the combined Axis Powers.
--> So even with German industry intact, the Allies still would've had an edge.
- The Allies intentionally went for an unconditional surrender for both Germany and Japan.
--> This is actually a topic of debate and criticism among historians and strategists alike who have pondered whether the war could've been brought to an end sooner had the Allies not pushed for an unconditional surrender.
...without going into that tangent...the point is that the Allies were aiming for an unconditional surrender and the fighting would've simply continued longer if Germany's industry was intact but eventually it would've come to the same end due to the advantage Allies held over Germany in manpower, economy, industrial might, etc.

There was no stalemate(roughly 1942 and after) since after US entered the war and the German offensives into Russia failed and there was no chance of a peace agreement since the Allies weren't going for that. They wouldn't settle on anything less than an unconditional surrender. In conclusion...establishing air superiority that enabled the destruction of German industry just hastened the SAME FATE.

This fate was sealed the moment when Germany failed to reassess that USSR's war capacity had drastically changed and assumed the same differences(in power) as Germany/Russia had during WWI(where Russia lost badly and pulled out). On top of this Russia had more depth(being a massive country), which Germany did not. It could take German blows, retreat further back and launch a counteroffensive all the while Germany's supply lines(also prone to being cut off by Russian counteroffensive) get thinned out the more it advances. The biggest issue of all was Germany created a second front for itself. U will be hard pressed to find a battle in history where someone fought on two fronts simultaneously and won. The 4 reasons in my first reply to u are among the major reasons why Germany lost. The reason u believe to be the most important is not THE REASON for defeat...it was just one of the many factors that's way down on the list.
 
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Successfully DTH

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@django
 
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Excuse my ignorance...who is he?
Taha "Bourne" Siddiqui, a Pakistani writer who works for a Gangadeshi channel affiliated with Zee Tv which is owned by an RSS member, the swine claimed 12 ISI members some of whom were armed with AK-47 and glocks attacked him and tried to apprehend him yet he managed to escape (real life Jason Bourne:lol:) , now the swine resides in France and regularly eats out with blasphemous pig Waqas Ahemd Goraya (Bhensa).
This is Taha "Bourne" Siddiqui.....hardly alpha looking:lol:.Kudos bhai
p05tfln1.jpg
 
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Taha "Bourne" Siddiqui, a Pakistani writer who works for a Gangadeshi channel affiliated with Zee Tv which is owned by an RSS member, the swine claimed 12 ISI members some of whom were armed with AK-47 and glocks attacked him and tried to apprehend him yet he managed to escape (real life Jason Bourne:lol:) , now the swine resides in France and regularly eats out with blasphemous pig Waqas Ahemd Goraya (Bhensa).
This is Taha "Bourne" Siddiqui.....hardly alpha looking:lol:.Kudos bhai
p05tfln1.jpg
Thank you sir for the info..
If he succeeded in escaping 12 maarkhors and that too without any weapons then I'm sure, he can reach Mars as well and that too in his naked skin. :omghaha::omghaha:
 
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Thank you sir for the info..
If he succeeded in escaping 12 maarkhors and that too without any weapons then I'm sure, he can reach Mars as well and that too in his naked skin. :omghaha::omghaha:
Rumours are he has got his French passport,,,,,,,,, vive la France :lol:.Kudos bhai
 
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When you have no arguments, you turn to name calling. Ok, I am a retard, but then how does that reflect on you when you can't prove your own point and wan't me to just "understand" your point.

Being a Muslim does not give you any edge. Period. In how many Ghazwats Muslims got thrashed despite the participation of our Holy Prophet in them? Were they not the best of the Muslims among all the Muslims ever to come? Were they not brave? Did they not fight firmly believing in the cause?

How many wars did Arab "Muslims" lose against Israel?
Which Muslim country won against US in the recent wars?

NO! Allah won't help you in a war just because you have a Islamic name (how good of a Muslims we really are is a different debate). Wars are won with strategy, skill, equipment, and bravery. Enemy planes are not flown by Rikshaw drivers. When they join their forces they have the same passion, and they go through the same rigours of training as anyone else. To top it off their government provides them with better equipment in larger numbers and more budget for better/more training.

Delusions evaporate very fast when the bullets start flying. It never hurts to be an optimist, you can always cry later on.


Again . I would say we are Muslims , we have that edge over others . So try to understand my point . Your point makes sense but also should see what others are saying , not be a stubborn and think only you are right . Well , after talking to you , now I know what kind of a retard you are . Do no problem . You aren't my first experience .
Take a chill pill .

Sent from my QMobile S1 PRO using Defence.pk mobile app
 
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Rumours are he has got his French passport,,,,,,,,, vive la France :lol:.Kudos bhai
If he leaves, no doubt that would be a bitch slap on the face of our state..but it is not a new thing... Bhensa guys all escaped unscratched so we should get used to it :-):-)
 
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Taha "Bourne" Siddiqui, a Pakistani writer who works for a Gangadeshi channel affiliated with Zee Tv which is owned by an RSS member, the swine claimed 12 ISI members some of whom were armed with AK-47 and glocks attacked him and tried to apprehend him yet he managed to escape (real life Jason Bourne:lol:) , now the swine resides in France and regularly eats out with blasphemous pig Waqas Ahemd Goraya (Bhensa).
This is Taha "Bourne" Siddiqui.....hardly alpha looking:lol:.Kudos bhai
p05tfln1.jpg
ISI what is ISI to do with him?
 
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