Whatever

[Chronos]

Yeah, it needs to be a text after the @ sign.

I actually like the new system.

 

[Levina]

First - I am very cool with your 'stance' of a cool Nehru and a strong Jinnah.

While I agree that Jinnah was strong, he was no secular. He was no mullah either. He was a barrister, ergo a professional opportunist. He played to all galleries, did everything possible to create the State he wanted to. He had no moral compulsions, was a realist, had no shame (that is a good quality), could and did manipulate people and so on.

Jinnah had his issues...I never supported him completely but the line in his speech which he made when declaring freedom "you may belong to any state,caste or creed but that has nothing to do with the business of the state".... that made him a secular in my eyes.And it is a known fact that towards the fag end of his life he did support secularism.

Nehru on the other hand was, to put it lightly - a nincompoop in comparison. Educated in lofty ideals of moral superiority of socialism*, he did not have the strength to drive a nation in times of crises. After Gandhi and Patel's death, all who remained in the Congress party were almost lackeys (with notable exceptions who caused much embarassment to 'Pandit' Nehru) with no say whatsoever. His cabinet only met to listen to his lectures that took no decisions but wasted time. Another fallacy is that he adopted secularism. He did not actually do that. He adopted a very strict form of anti Hinduism, something he always associated with a regressive culture inimical to Socialism. Also unlike Jinnah, Nehru, when faced with firm opposition, always surrendered. Case in point - Kashmir, Somnath Temple, Babri Mandir, Forward Policy etc.

You just sullied the sacrifice of countless unknown Indians who stood up for secular nationhood at critical moments in India’s freedom movement. Sad!!
Ppl first associated "reservation" for minorities with secularism and then went on to beat drums about how secularism has spoiled our country. I cant say about politics but on a day to day basis respecting ppl from other religions and respecting an individual irrespective of his caste and religion is what i would call secularism.
Subramanian swamy's anti-secularist propaganda is working well with youth i guess. And your post would be the proof of it.
Secularism was no doubt the intellectual child of the West but it as been adopted well into our system...though i'm strongly against reservations of any kind (not even on the basis of GENDER) except for financially backward ppl but I support secularism from the core of my heart.Had we been not fed on secularism then the behemoth India would not have had so many success stories ,we would have collapsed like a house of cards. The thing which didnt work in favor of pakistan was that it was anti-secularism. Ergo you can see the plight of Pakistan today,though smaller in size Pakistan which was once upon a time much ahead of India is now a sinking titanic. I hope pakistanis pull up their socks and get their system back on track.A troubled neighborhood would not do India any good.

India's non aligned policy did not keep India 'Not Aligned' for long. In fact the NAM met its demise in 1962 when India who had deliberately isolated herself on cool Nehru's directive was invaded by the Chinese and got to friends - except some small arms from the US and Israel(!) For the next 2 years Nehru was a shadow of his former self. The remnants of the Nehruvian foreign policy died pretty much with him. Shastri had no qualms of using a Soviet hand in the Tashkent Conference. India shifted to the Soviet Camp around then. The only advantage Nehru had was that he did not die in the immediate aftermath of the Partition (unlike smoking cancerous Jinnah). So he gave India some stability. But that had more to do with luck than any genuine ability to do anything.

By that logic everything works on LUCK factor. A guy who performs well in school and gets the best education might still not be successful person later in his life though a school drop out may be.
Everything works on HIT and TRIAL sire.
I dont have any sympathies towards Nehru, he had his issues but I still think these men deserve a lil bit more respect than what the present generation gives 'em.

warning:
I might sound a lil diff tomorrow or when ever I'm in bad mood.Then these lines should not be misconstrued and used against me.

@SarthakGanguly

what did you have for your breakfast??
why do you sound so rebellious?
did you have a fight with her last nite??

 

[Informant]

? ... @Informant Zinda Hain? ....and Baki Sub? im Kind of forgetting nicks slowly....only can remember few important ones![/QUOTE]

I know I'm important to you

PDF is boring. What's up?

 

[Chronos]

How are you, Ravi? I am not getting mentions for a long time. Just saw your post here. Waiting for your mail.

I have sent you the mail now

 

[Chronos]

? ... @Informant Zinda Hain? ....and Baki Sub? im Kind of forgetting nicks slowly....only can remember few important ones!

I know I'm important to you

PDF is boring. What's up?[/QUOTE]

The prodigal son returns. @Informant

I haven't seen you in ages. How are you mate?

 

[Chronos]

maybe

@Akheilos you know @Srinivas

 

[Nexus]

@Skull and Bones sir I really need your help can you massage me on fb ? please

 

[INDIC]

know I'm important to you
PDF is boring. What's up?

Tu abhi bhi idhar hi hai.

 

[Leader]

scorpionx mind me sending you an E-mail?

Leader waz S.U.R.B. my condolences to the wagah border victims

yeah it was terrible., strangely ahrar group of taliban and jandullah (anti-Iran) baloch militants both have claimed responsibility..

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Jinnah had his issues...I never supported him completely but the line in his speech which he made when declaring freedom "you may belong to any state,caste or creed but that has nothing to do with the business of the state".... that made him a secular in my eyes.And it is a known fact that towards the fag end of his life he did support secularism.




You just sullied the sacrifice of countless unknown Indians who stood up for secular nationhood at critical moments in India’s freedom movement. Sad!!
Ppl first associated "reservation" for minorities with secularism and then went on to beat drums about how secularism has spoiled our country. I cant say about politics but on a day to day basis respecting ppl from other religions and respecting an individual irrespective of his caste and religion is what i would call secularism.
Subramanian swamy's anti-secularist propaganda is working well with youth i guess. And your post would be the proof of it.
Secularism was no doubt the intellectual child of the West but it as been adopted well into our system...though i'm strongly against reservations of any kind (not even on the basis of GENDER) except for financially backward ppl but I support secularism from the core of my heart.Had we been not fed on secularism then the behemoth India would not have had so many success stories ,we would have collapsed like a house of cards. The thing which didnt work in favor of pakistan was that it was anti-secularism. Ergo you can see the plight of Pakistan today,though smaller in size Pakistan which was once upon a time much ahead of India is now a sinking titanic. I hope pakistanis pull up their socks and get their system back on track.A troubled neighborhood would not do India any good.

By that logic everything works on LUCK factor. A guy who performs well in school and gets the best education might still not be successful person later in his life though a school drop out may be.
Everything works on HIT and TRIAL sire.
I dont have any sympathies towards Nehru, he had his issues but I still think these men deserve a lil bit more respect than what the present generation gives 'em.

warning:
I might sound a lil diff tomorrow or when ever I'm in bad mood.Then these lines should not be misconstrued and used against me.

@SarthakGanguly

what did you have for your breakfast??
why do you sound so rebellious?
did you have a fight with her last nite??

Wait. Jinnah's comments are cherry picked by both sides - secularists as well as Islamists. Ask @Zarvan and you will get other quotes of the Qaid e Azam that are ... not secular. He was dimplomatic and spoke what the audience wanted to hear.

Secondly I did not write bashing secularism. You have defended secularism. I am not picking a fight with secularism or secular ideals here. Only your assessment of Nehru. You think him to be secular. I think he was not. Since I am not up against secularism here, the Subhramaniam Swamy point won't have legs to stand.

1. The biggest advantage of Nehru was - that he gave India stability. He was not good, but certianly better than other third world countries who got engulfed into turmoil as soon as they got independence. This is oft overlooked. He also gave some of the most lasting institutions to India - the IITs, the mature bureucracy, the basic infrastructure, the Steel plants etc. True, India was blessed with an effective network of civil servants inherited from the British, but Nehru does get some credit.

2. The other credit was his personal stature, that encouraged other states to overlook India's poverty and invest in India's nascent education sector and heavy industries.

Not saying that Nehru was 'pathetic'. Just that so many of his decisions(based more on moral/idealistic worldview than on realistic realpolitik) sting us even today.

No fights, but this is Monday. Will see her again in December.

 

[Levina]

@SarthakGanguly
Gotcha!!
I think we have made peace. You and me 've reached the same point where we neither hate Nehru nor support him completely.So lets not get struck on a tree of our own making

yeah it was terrible., strangely ahrar group of taliban and jandullah (anti-Iran) baloch militants both have claimed responsibility..

and why would that be so??

 

[Leader]

and why would that be so??

no idea.. both are weak, probably want to prove that they are still calling the shots.

 

[Levina]

no idea.. both are weak, probably want to prove that they are still calling the shots.

So you suspect a bigger shark behind all this?

 

[INDIC]

Jinnah had his issues...I never supported him completely but the line in his speech which he made when declaring freedom "you may belong to any state,caste or creed but that has nothing to do with the business of the state".... that made him a secular in my eyes.And it is a known fact that towards the fag end of his life he did support secularism.

This is the favorite motto of seculars and liberals in Pakistan but I believe you are aware of Two nation Theory. The Islamists and Secular liberals in Pakistan can dig up numerous comments to support their theory.

 

[WishLivePak]

Anyone likes Pakistani sheeps?

I hate Canadian sheeps. They're are wolly. And all look similar. No variety.