StitchTech says:
"On a personal level, I’ve not gotten to the point where I’d rather consume content on a touch screen device. I prefer swiping my finger on a screen to navigate a website rather than being force to use a trackpad. This tells me all computers will be touchscreen soon, just like all mobile devices already are."
Really, Chris? Because you prefer touch screens is why all computers will be touchscreens soon? What hubris! As long as people continue to use monitors that sit on a desktop instead of their laps or in their hands, touch screens won't completely replace the mouse or pointing device. To move back and forth from the keyboard (which will always be necessary), the pointing/touch method will always be more convenient being close to the keyboard. And if you argue that a virtual on-screen keyboard will replace the desktop keyboard, then you now have a tablet, not a computer.
brendilon says:
"if you argue that a virtual on-screen keyboard will replace the desktop keyboard, then you now have a tablet, not a computer."
You're just flat out wrong on this last part. By no definition does a computer require a physical keyboard. The first computers didn't have keyboards of any kind. Your smartphone is a computer, your tablet is a computer. Your laptop is a computer and your desktop is a computer. Desktop, laptop, tablet, smartphone, Google Glass, smartwatch, these are all sub-types of computers.
As for the touch screen issue, I have on many occasions found myself reaching for my desktop computer screen to do things, often right after I've spent significant time on my tablet. On the other hand I've never found myself wishing I had a mouse when working with my tablet or smartphone.
Whether touchscreens become the way of the future on laptop or desktop machines remains to be seen. However, you sound a lot like the people who scoffed at the mouse and GUI when those were first developed.
npco543 says:
"You're just flat out wrong on this last part. By no definition does a computer require a physical keyboard"
While you are, of course, correct, you're missing the point. I'm pretty sure he meant that if you have a keyboard, you have a *traditional* computer - i.e. a desktop.
"As for the touch screen issue, I have on many occasions found myself reaching for my desktop computer screen to do things"
And as many times as I've heard this, I can honestly say I've never, not a single time, found myself reaching towards my desktop monitor, before or after any length of time using a touch-screen device. And incidentally, I'm continually wishing I had a mouse when trying to do any type of precision tasks on a tablet. Be it writing anything beyond a few short sentences, or having to select any type at all, the lack of precision inherent in a touch screen is maddeningly frustrating.
I'm not saying touch won't remain with us, and doesn't excel, as a primary input method for certain tasks/uses, but it's beyond absurd when people claim with absolute certainty (which I know you're not doing, but others are) that touch will be the one and only input method on all computing devices.
Chris' opinion that because *he* prefers touch input for *content consumption* tasks, all computers will necessarily move to touch input is, as StitchTech said, a shocking level of hubris.
brendilon says:
Actually, I think that as costs of touchscreen continue to drop, then yes, all consumer computer WILL incorporate touch input. Not everyone will use that aspect of the interface, but just as the CRT monitor has died for computers (and televisions as well), the non-touch screen will fall by the wayside.
Chris's opinion may not be worded terribly well, but he's right. What he's saying is that based on his own experience with the ease of use of touchscreen input, he believes that touchscreen input on all computers will become the norm. The level of nitpickiness by some of the posters is far more shocking than his lack of hubris.
npco543 says:
"Actually, I think that as costs of touchscreen continue to drop, then yes, all consumer computer WILL incorporate touch input. Not everyone will use that aspect of the interface, but just as the CRT monitor has died for computers (and televisions as well), the non-touch screen will fall by the wayside. "
That may come to pass, but I'm not so sure it's a certainty. Flat panel displays supplanted CRTs because they have many and significant advantages - they're far lighter, take up far less space, use less electricity, they're more consistent, easier to mass produce, easier to ship and store, the list goes on.
If all monitors end up including touch input, it'll simply be as a means to maintain a certain price point. In other words, the technology will become so cheap that manufacturers will include it just as a reason to maintain monitors at a given price point. It won't be because touch input is a superior, end-all, be-all input method... because it just isn't. It's great in many areas, but horrible in many others.
"Chris's opinion may not be worded terribly well, but he's right"
No, in precisely the way he worded it, he is not right. And it's not nitpicking to call someone out on a statement like that. Such myopic statements call into question his judgement and insight on the overall industry he serves.
brendilon says:
"It won't be because touch input is a superior, end-all, be-all input method... because it just isn't. It's great in many areas, but horrible in many others."
I've already outlined below how you're wrong here. Touch is absolutely superior to mouse input. I don't see the incorporation of touchscreen input into monitors replacing keyboards and I don't think Chris was arguing for that either, though he didn't explicitly address that one way or another.
The mouse is to the computer screen what the blackberry trackballs were to smartphones. They were very good technologies in their time, but just as the trackball fell by the wayside to the touchscreen, so too will the mouse.
You really love the word 'myopic' don't you? You must be quite nearsighted yourself because all you can see is what's happening right now and that what you perceive as what touch can or should be won't work for you. You seem to lack any ability to see beyond what IS at this moment and to see what is possible. Chris's perspective is confined to his own experiences, self-centered would be a better description. But you actively refuse to consider the perspectives of others as having any validity. Your attitude is the truly myopic one.
ScottJ says:
"Touch is absolutely superior to mouse input."
Wrong. It has a few advantages over mice and lots of disadvantages.
brendilon says:
And what are these disadvantages? Please, enlighten us all. Multi-touch alone makes a touchscreen superior. If you work in a visually creative industry the gestural nature of touch blows using a mouse out of the water.
So what disadvantage does touch offer over a mouse? Are you afraid your arm might get tired? I'll bet your wrist NEVER gets tired or sore from using a mouse and it's not as though carpal tunnel syndrome is a thing...
I'd love to know how many of the people speaking so dismissively of touchscreens have actually used them in a computer environment for any length of time. I would bet it's very few. before you offer your ever-so-insightful response, please tell us how much time you personally have spent working on a laptop or desktop with a touch screen. if you haven't spent any time on such a machine, just keep your mouth shut until you can speak from experience.
ScottJ says:
Easy.
-Precision
-Fingerprints
-Blocking the screen
-Ergonomics
-Looking stupid pointing at your computer screen
It's like talking to your computer. Cool in theory, dorky in practice.
Need more?
brendilon says:
-Precision - Have you used one? No? Then you really have no idea. I do more precision work in an hour than you probably do in a month and the experience I've had in working with my boss's machine have been extremely positive.
-Fingerprints - Really? Who gives a frack? I just put my hands all over my computer screen, I don't see a single fingerprint. They'll be there when it turns off, but who the heck cares? It's a tool not a piece of fine art.
-Blocking the screen - Right, because everyone is going to hold their hands in front of the screen the entire time they're working. We'll never, y'know, lower them. Especially to type.
-Ergonomics - Do you have a degree in ergonomics? Have you used one of these machines at length? No? Then you have no idea what you're talking about, so, stuff it until you have actually tried it.
-Looking stupid pointing at your computer screen - Do you know why talking to your phone/computer hasn't caught on? 1. There is a total lack of privacy, everyone around you knows exactly what you just Googled. 2. It's rude, nobody around you wants to know what you just Googled, or hear the email you're dictating to a client, consultant, associate, friend or family member. It's not because you look stupid doing it, look at the bluetooth earpieces people wear, look at the stupid fauxhawk haircuts that are trendy. Heck, look at hipsters in general. Dorky/stupid is a matter of perspective. People look stupid holding up tablets to take pictures, but overwhelmingly folks demand cameras on their tablets.
So, in short, your 'drawbacks' are
1. personal insecurities (looking stupid)
2. silly (fingerprints)
3. based wholly on assumptions you've made without actually using one of these devices at any length (hands blocking the screen, precision and ergonomics)
ScottJ says:
You have no idea what I have and haven't used. I could throw down my credentials to rebut your assumptions but what's the point? You'd just dismiss them out of hand just like you've dismissed the legitimate drawbacks to touch screen use on a desktop with weak rebuttals.
There's no way you can be as precise with a normal human finger as you can with a mouse. Impossible. It's physics. In fact, that's why modern touch interfaces use huge buttons and text to allow touch screens to be useful at all.
Fingerprints are a major problem. You can just shrug it off. Your rhetorical skills are weak so I don't blame you. It doesn't change the problem.
Please tell us what kind of design work you do where you can get away with a touch interface. Something tells me you won't say. Just a guess.
brendilon says:
You've got my credentials in a post below, I won't bother repeating it. Do you want my LinkedIn next? So what do you do chief? How much time have you spent working with touchscreens on a desktop? Are you going to tell me more about how I cant possibly do my job with a touchscreen when I know people who are doing it and know that most in the design industry are eager for such tools?
How exactly are fingerprints a major problem? When the screen is on, you can't see them (unless you're some slob smearing pizza grease all over your screen, and a screen is a lot easier to clean than a keyboard) and when the screen is off, who cares? So how are fingerprints a "major problem"?
You have literally no idea what you're talking about, do yourself a favor and just stop talking.
npco543 says:
I really try not to stoop to this level, but you really are a fool.
"-Precision - Have you used one? No? Then you really have no idea. I do more precision work in an hour than you probably do in a month and the experience I've had in working with my boss's machine have been extremely positive."
Oh, really. I bow to your physic powers to know what everyone else does on their computers. You do more precision work in an hour than I (or the person you were replying to) do in a month, huh? Really? I do 3D modeling, image editing, video editing and throw in some CAD/CAM... on a daily basis. What, pray tell, do you do in an hour that requires more precision than that?
"-Fingerprints - Really? Who gives a frack?"
Hmmm, I do. I'm continually making sure my monitor is clean so while I'm retouching images, I don't mistake fingerprints on the screen for blemishes in the image. It's actually rather important.
"-Blocking the screen - Right, because everyone is going to hold their hands in front of the screen the entire time they're working."
Really funny that someone who does more precision work in an hour than most do in a month apparently doesn't understand this point. It really makes me suspect you don't actually do any precision work. Here's why it's an issue - if I'm modeling an object to be manufactured, it's actually rather important that points in a mesh line up and/or are *exactly* where I need them to be. When the tip of a finger covers an area of upwards of 8,100 pixels (90x90 square), all of which are blocked while trying to move a single point, it makes moving a point with any precision, literally, impossible.
"-Ergonomics - Do you have a degree in ergonomics?"
No, I don't, and I suspect neither do you. But I can say with absolute certainty that lifting/holding an entire arm in the air requires more effort than laying said arm on a table and resting the hand on a mouse. And here again, precision comes into play - since when the entire arm is held in the air, the hand, and by extension, the tip of the outstretched finger is inherently less stable than a hand resting on a mouse on a table. But being the savant that you apparently are, I'm sure you happen to be able to hold your arm in the air with your outstretched finger, indefinitely and without a hair of movement or fatigue. Must be from all the precision work you do each hour of the day.
"-Looking stupid pointing at your computer screen"
I could care less how I look while I'm working, all I care about is what will enable me to do better work, or work more efficiently. And touch does neither.
So, in short, you are:
1. A fool
2. Most likely full of shit
3. Arrogant
brendilon says:
I've already given my credentials, twice. Apparently HOK with their Revit/Touch customizations are fools too. God only knows how they got to be so successful.
So, how much time have YOU spent using a touch enabled desktop? I can't help but notice that every time I have asked that question of anyone here, no one ever actually answers it. The only folks to have mentioned how much time they have spent using one were positive about the experience. having spent several days messing around with a touchscreen desktop and trying to see how well Autodesk's tools functioned with Windows 8 and a touchscreen interface, I can say from personal experience that it was ergonomically comfortable to use and I found no issues with precision.
ScottJ says:
Thanks. I had to get back to actual work so couldn't continue educating the fool. Apparently, the extra precision he gains by using touch interfaces allows him near infinite time to yammer on and on in opposition to logic and common sense.
I certainly wouldn't hire anyone whose logic faculty was so impaired that they would think for a moment that a finger touchscreen interface could ever be more precise than a mouse and keyboard, much less a drawing tablet.
Obviously, Brendlion has been raiding Snoop Lion's stash if he believes his own BS.
Bwahahahaha says:
I think it's safe to say you owned brendilon, or whatever his dumbass name is, and owned him hard! Fantastic response! Straight to the point with FACTS to back it up. He's clearly a fool, and everyone should just leave it at that... let him keep talking and talking... it will only serve to make him look more like the complete and utter fool he has shown himself to be thus far. We have to just relax and eventually come to the conclusion that some people in this world just do not possess even a sliver of basic logic... and leave it at that.
so all da family supportd her n her kids were looked afta by both husb n her parents...
talk to u later....
