What makes a good daughter-in-law

[Divergent]

Nope thats actually a misrepresentation. I've previously stated that around 60, the people with high paying jobs, usually break off from the joint family as they have the resources, most of the time the previous generation has passed away etc. However, going by hard numbers alone, thats only possible for people with good steady high paying jobs. This is where the literacy rate comes in, as usually the jobs achieved are in part a function of the education that you receive. In Pakistan the rate is around 6% (as per the data in 07) for people that actually are university graduates ... other than those, it's quite a challenge to find a high paying job, or start a business that renders out profits in the margins which can give you the financial power to buy houses. That still leaves alot of people in the poverty range ...

Again, the religion also tells you to make nikkah easy, the fact that some lady wants a life style that is out of the financial reach of the husband, while knowing his financial capability beforehand ... is the something that can be classified as unreasonable ...

That's YOUR views around '60' a man can afford his own place, not the views of many others here. Some people can afford their own place in early mid 30-40's, they could be paying for the house in installment or have a previous land in which their building their own property or choose to sell that asset and buy a house elsewhere. It is not the impossible

 

[RAMPAGE]

@Azlan Haider

Are you trying to make a point by thanking that specific post of mine?

 

[M. Sarmad]

As long as:


Feudal lords represent peasants

Industrialists represent laborers

Business tycoons represent shop keepers

Men represent women,

there is absolutely no hope of "just" laws being enacted.


Also, it's not the scripture (i.e. the Holy Qur'an) that is biased against women, it's the exclusively male perspective/interpretation which makes it 'appear' so

 

[HAIDER]

Our whole society stuck between In laws and Out laws.

 

[abdulbarijan]

That's YOUR views around '60' a man can afford his own place, not the views of many others here. Some people can afford their own place in early mid 30-40's, they could be paying for the house in installment or have a previous land in which their building their own property or choose to sell that asset and buy a house elsewhere. It is not the impossible

Tell all that to a dude earning 2$ a day wage, or a dude who according to MCPI index is classified poor in the dimensions identified in their scale which basically accounts for the most basic human needs ... Those people ... they just make up half of the freakin population ... So realistically speaking a joint family is perhaps the only logical solution for them.

Can some people afford to buy houses in their mid 30's-40's ... yes, those who can and their wives want a separate house, by all means do so. Just that then the wife should be mindful of the fact that a house separation also means that you've complicated your husbands life for him, he now has to be the main provider, caretaker etc. of not only the wife, now he has to travel to another location to spend some time and fulfill the rights to his parents. Plus, let's include the fact that the parents that are living alone have no source of income, it's either a low paying retirement plan or the savings, but most of the time as a son you'd have to contribute to your parents in addition to your own living expenses thereby again increasing your gross expenses. Add in the fact that your adding a whole range of responsibilities to his plate instead of making his life easier. Here's someone who works his rear end off to make your life easy and tries to earn his respect in your heart everyday, who compromises for you in places he would never do for anyone else and your gift to him is ... yeah the religion allows me to demand a home, and you have to give it to me, no matter how hard it makes your life ... not my headache right?

 

[RAMPAGE]

As long as:


Feudal lords represent peasants

Industrialists represent laborers

Business tycoons represent shop keepers

Men represent women,

there is absolutely no hope of "just" laws being enacted.


Also, it's not the scripture (i.e. the Holy Qur'an) that is biased against women, it's the exclusively male perspective/interpretation which makes it 'appear' so

Some would argue that the scripture is a male's perspective.

Goodness! My posts have become far too scandalising to have Edhi sahab's face next to them.

 

[M. Sarmad]

@abdulbarijan

In Islam, marriage is a civil contract, not a sacrament.

Before marriage, both parties (or their representatives) can sit down and mutually decide (in accordance with their social/financial backgrounds)on what the "terms and conditions" of the contract will be ... Nothing un-Islamic about it

What's the fuss about ?

Some would argue that the scripture is a male's perspective.

By all means

 

[Divergent]

Tell all that to a dude earning 2$ a day wage, or a dude who according to MCPI index is classified poor in the dimensions identified in their scale which basically accounts for the most basic human needs ... Those people ... they just make up half of the freakin population ... So realistically speaking a joint family is perhaps the only logical solution for them.

Can some people afford to buy houses in their mid 30's-40's ... yes, those who can and their wives want a separate house, by all means do so. Just that then the wife should be mindful of the fact that a house separation also means that you've complicated your husbands life for him, he now has to be the main provider, caretaker etc. of not only the wife, now he has to travel to another location to spend some time and fulfill the rights to his parents. Plus, let's include the fact that the parents that are living alone have no source of income, it's either a low paying retirement plan or the savings, but most of the time as a son you'd have to contribute to your parents in addition to your own living expenses thereby again increasing your gross expenses. Add in the fact that your adding a whole range of responsibilities to his plate instead of making his life easier. Here's someone who works his rear end off to make your life easy and tries to earn his respect in your heart everyday, who compromises for you in places he would never do for anyone else and your gift to him is ... yeah the religion allows me to demand a home, and you have to give it to me, no matter how hard it makes your life ... not my headache right?

Woah. First of your response carries emotion..

Look obviously if the earnings are that scarce then one has to first ask if he can even support a Wife, if she's good to accommodate to that then that's fine.

The question in motion here isn't the pros/cons but the fact that do male citizens in society realise and understand IF she asks for a separate home then that is not something to be frowned upon? That its her right? In simple terms yes or no.

Further to that, parents can always be visited or surely if they have other younger unmarried children they're there to support and take care.

Your theories are beating around the bush and creating scenarios but not exactly answering a simple question. Is she allowed her own home within her rights?

 

[Ocean]

Tell all that to a dude earning 2$ a day wage, or a dude who according to MCPI index is classified poor in the dimensions identified in their scale which basically accounts for the most basic human needs ... Those people ... they just make up half of the freakin population ... So realistically speaking a joint family is perhaps the only logical solution for them.

Can some people afford to buy houses in their mid 30's-40's ... yes, those who can and their wives want a separate house, by all means do so. Just that then the wife should be mindful of the fact that a house separation also means that you've complicated your husbands life for him, he now has to be the main provider, caretaker etc. of not only the wife, now he has to travel to another location to spend some time and fulfill the rights to his parents. Plus, let's include the fact that the parents that are living alone have no source of income, it's either a low paying retirement plan or the savings, but most of the time as a son you'd have to contribute to your parents in addition to your own living expenses thereby again increasing your gross expenses. Add in the fact that your adding a whole range of responsibilities to his plate instead of making his life easier. Here's someone who works his rear end off to make your life easy and tries to earn his respect in your heart everyday, who compromises for you in places he would never do for anyone else and your gift to him is ... yeah the religion allows me to demand a home, and you have to give it to me, no matter how hard it makes your life ... not my headache right?

Why leave parents ? I think majority women do not ask the guys to leave parents unless matters are too serious. Specially if he is only child. Issues crop up when siblings are around and mainly other married couples, jeth jethani, devar devrani etc are living in same house. Scenario you are giving does not need a seperate house.

And btw sacrifices have to be made by every member including wife if one wants a better happy life.

Even divergent was not saying bully anyone. She also meant the same that if privacy is not there with lot of people around, kids do not have enough rooms etc etc.
Btw some jobs offer house allowance to the guys. So then you can get a house.

 

[M. Sarmad]

...Is she allowed her own home within her rights?

Yes, well within her rights


Separate accommodation is the wife’s right, even if she did not stipulate it in the marriage contract, and she has the right to ask for it later, and she is not regarded as being wilfully defiant because of that

The wife has the right to live in separate accommodation with her husband and children, and not to share it with anyone, whether it is a father, a mother or a relative.

This is the view of most of the Hanafi, Shaafa’i and Hanbali fuqaha’

https://islamqa.info/en/94965

 

[Hell hound]

Here is a thing we can actually agree on . The potential Husband and Wife should let each other know before hand what they want their living arrangement to be. He shouldn't sign on the dotted line if he knows that he can't afford what she's expecting. Likewise, she shouldn't get in a nikkah with a person, whose expectations are different from what she can provide.

In the end the reality is if you just make sure you give the heads up to a girl on what her living conditions will be, I.e. Permanent joint family system. Ultimately it's a right one should know prior to any formal and official commitment.

Dude if a joint family is your way of life hey Ho go for it! We are just giving our opinions

and thats what i was saying to manama that instead of advocating the abolishment of a system or degrading the guy for living with his parents let him decide what he want be it a joint family system or living on his own.
live and let live and don't degrade others for their way of life.i myself don't want to live in a huge joint family but i won't judge or discourage someone who want to.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Woah. First of your response carries emotion..

Look obviously if the earnings are that scarce then one has to first ask if he can even support a Wife, if she's good to accommodate to that then that's fine.

The question in motion here isn't the pros/cons but the fact that do male citizens in society realise and understand IF she asks for a separate home then that is not something to be frowned upon? That its her right? In simple terms yes or no.

Further to that, parents can always be visited or surely if they have other younger unmarried children they're their to support and take care.

Your theories are beating around the bush and creating scenarios but not exactly answering a simple question. Is she allowed her own home within her rights?

Says someone whose entire posts were about the pros and cons .. mostly consa .. of a joint family system.

• Is she allowed her home with in her rights? absolutely, the religion says so, so who am I or anyone to question the right that Allah has afforded you. That clear enough for ya?
  
  
• With that out of the way, propose a solution to 50% of the population living in poverty? Is there a cost effective solution that can cater to these people's needs other than a joint family system? Afterall, you can't just leave around 90 million people, 60% of which qualify as 'young people' with virtually no solution. Joint family for them is the easy and the more logical way to go. Is that too difficult to understand? and yes I get it, your not against joint family systems, your for getting separated once the man has the financial power, but the counter contention to that is, most of the people (based on the literacy and poverty rates) will not be able to do that in their life time. A permanent joint family solution is probably their only option, that is unless, you have any alternative solution that you'd like to share?
  
  
• As far as 'parents can be visited' ... yeah sure they can, but like I said, what you've demanded is your right and ultimately (given he has the financial power) he has to take care of his wife, since she is his responsibility. However, with that he has a responsibility to his parents too, and there are verses and hadiths you can quote to that reflect the gravity of that responsibility. There are various medical conditions that require constant checks, in event of any mishap a quick reach to the hospital, add in the fact that at a very tender age, you've basically left them lonely. Your one decision, significantly made his life harder in terms of fulfilling his responsibility to both you and his parents. Do you think he'll not think about that every time he has to cancel on either one of you so that the responsibility of the other can be fulfilled? Do you think he won't think about your decision when he ultimately becomes the punching bag for your and his own families puns for not giving you both 'enough attention'.

@abdulbarijan

In Islam, marriage is a civil contract, not a sacrament.

Before marriage, both parties (or their representatives) can sit down and mutually decide (in accordance with their social/financial backgrounds)on what the "terms and conditions" of the contract will be ... Nothing un-Islamic about it

What's the fuss about ?

Did I say or insinuate that it was un-islamic, I've just been asking for an alternate solution, from the proponents of the idea that the woman should live in a separate home and that living arrangement is better than that of a joint family for XYZ reasoning.

My contention is that, in many cases, it is financially not viable to have a separate accommodation (keeping in mind that around 50% of the population falls in to one dimension or the other of a scale measuring multi dimensional poverty) and that a husband can instead ensure that the rights of the wife be met in a joint family. Is that contention wrong ? If so, do you have an alternate solution in mind that you'd like to share?

"The man who could call a spade a spade should be compelled to use one. It is the only thing he is fit for." Oscar Wilde

You're too funny. I had forgotten how fun this place is. So many jokers around.

“We never look beyond our assumptions and what's worse, we have given up trying to meet others; we just meet ourselves.”
― Muriel Barbery

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Honestly, this thread is a mind-fuk.. and interestingly.. the people posting here aren't even married ...

 

[Hell hound]

Honestly, this thread is a mind-fuk.. and interestingly.. the people posting here aren't even married ...

yeah akhri wali bat to bus ab dill ki bharas hi nikalai hay

 

[RAMPAGE]

@abdulbarijan

Nice comeback. Took you how many hours to a find couple of nonsensical lines by a God-knows-who containing the word joker?