What makes a good daughter-in-law

[abdulbarijan]

I was pulling his leg - not my fault if you missed the sarcasm.
Your argument is Rubbish, Faith is included because Faith is misused to conduct a message that a Female HAS to stay in a joint family system and asking otherwise is 'wrong and a sin' when that is absolutely nonesense.

No. Even if they have their own house a Mother can take out time for her children and educate them, kids go to school and a Mother whose a house wife should be done with household duties and collects them, feeds them, clothes them, gets them scrubbed up and then can sit down educating her children or assisting with homework. If she's really busy, modern day kids can easily stay behind after school to get further assistance from after school clubs or facetime relevant people for assistance. It IS doable and has been done previously in the past.

Maslow's Hierarchy of needs may suggests basic needs such as 'food, shelter, sleep and warmth' - which can be done easily having your own place. But you also forgot the 'security, stability and freedom' though this may also be applicant in a joint family it has more flexibility in your own place.

In the end the reality is if you just make sure you give the heads up to a girl on what her living conditions will be, I.e. Permanent joint family system. Ultimately it's a right one should know prior to any formal and official commitment.

Dude if a joint family is your way of life hey Ho go for it! We are just giving our opinions

• FYI, There is a reason Maslow's hierarchy theory is presented IN A HIERARCHY. The argument by Maslow, was that you start at the bottom and move on from there. Safety needs come after your basic needs are met (basic needs include your food, water, warmth, clothing and shelter).Now go ahead and explain how do you fulfill your basic needs when your expenses are greater from your income ? (i.e. the reason I keep bringing up 50% multidimensional poverty statistic / remember the poverty line set at $2 a day means an income of about 60$ a month. i.e. Rs. 6000 a month, forget food, water, warmth, the average 1 bedroom apartment costs you Rs.13,000+)
  
  
• just a recap ... your basic argument a little while ago was, since it's inconvenient for the wife, because of the problems in the joint family, therefore they should separate. Now here is a case of convenience that a joint family provides i.e. taking care of the children/education etc. and your like naaah, forget about convenience ... 'it is still doable'.
  
  
• Here is a thing we can actually agree on . The potential Husband and Wife should let each other know before hand what they want their living arrangement to be. He shouldn't sign on the dotted line if he knows that he can't afford what she's expecting. Likewise, she shouldn't get in a nikkah with a person, whose expectations are different from what she can provide.
  
  

  @abdulbarijan Yours sure is an interesting case. Would love to know your story.A piece of advice: Women, just like men, come in all sorts of flavours. I suggest that you should go out and enjoy a few of those flavours. It would definitely do you good. Besides, why should it always be Abdulbarijan against all womankind? Life has more to offer than just that. Have fun man. Interestingly, this reminds me of a funny little story Georgy Porgy by Roald Dahl. @Nilgiri

Sorry to disappoint you but there is no story ... rather, in this case, it's just abdulbarijan vs individuals who want to have their cake and eat it too, who just happen to be female by coincidence + Spineless dudes who'd rather oblige like a 'good little puppy' instead of calling BS out when they see it ...

 

[RAMPAGE]

Sorry to disappoint you but there is no story

Somehow I really doubt that.

... rather, in this case, it's just abdulbarijan vs individuals who want to have their cake and eat it too, who just happen to be female by coincidence + Spineless dudes who'd rather oblige like a 'good little puppy' instead of calling BS out when they see it ...

You should try bending that spine of yours sometime. Who knows what you mind end up on top of. It would be good to let out all that frustration you've got bottled up inside of you.

 

[Ocean]

Parents raise the child and meet all his requirements for 20-30 years and then he marries and due to pressure from his wife he can't look after his elderly fragile parents because she wants to move and live away for her freedom and independence.

What.A.Justice and a wonderful payback to the parents!

Seriously 20-30 years? By 22 majority guys start working , imean you said 30 years , that is so uncommon.

Noone is saying abandon the parents. The argument is no one should interfere in others matters unless inevitable. And when parents are still earning and could take care of themselves then no harm in getting a new house- this scenario i have mentioned in a previous post, that my aunts husband was earning well, her daughter in law wanted a seperate home , they all were living in a medium size house with one bedroom alloted to married couple, guys siblings were living with them too, the guy could have easily gotten her a seperate house but instead he chose to divorce her. Third instance is when your siblings get married, then move out to a new house and your parents can come along.

Just imagine your own sister or daughter in place of your wife and think she has moved to a new household surrounded by total strangers, would you not want her to be treated well and feel comfortable. When i imagine my own sister or close female relative i totally feel it, and that makes me think my wife is also someone elses daughter and a human , so must be given similar treatment just as i wish for my own sister.

Obviously i am not advocating for a joru ka ghulam type who even thinks from his wifes brain , that is so freaking stupid.

Lastly, you said parents meet your needs for 30years , true parents are important, but our religion has set everyones rights. Your parents wont live forever, so your early 40years would be spent with them but next 30 years are going to spend with your partner. And your partner is just not your partner but a parent of your future kids too.

but if one has to give a second class citizen place to their partner then it is ideal they should not get married.

Wohi pakistani parents jo pakistan say layi gayi bahu ki choti choti baton pay issues rakhtay hain , when another one of their sons marries a non pakistani or a gori, who does not follow any of the pakistani traditions, wohi parents doosri bahu kay ooper aitraz nahi kartay. Pakistani system is jissay dabba saktay ho ussay oppress karo, jis kay samnay pata hai chalni nahi hai uskay samnay bolnay ki himmat hee na karo.

 

[Verve]

Seriously 20-30 years? By 22 majority guys start working , imean you said 30 years , that is so uncommon.

Fine, for the sake of discussion, let's take 22 years only.

Well, that child should give those 22 years back to his parents, full expenses paid for including housing etc everything provided for, and not only that but the time and physical effort and patience x 2!

As for rights in Islam, a man didn't meet our Prophet S.A.W until his mother allowed him. She refused him many times and he obeyed. And when she finally gave him permission, then he made the journey to meet him S.A.W.

What do you have you say to all this then?

It is as simple as that --> if the man can't afford to keep his wife separate, then he should not do so at the expense of not caring for his parents. His parents struggled a good chunk of their life for his welfare and he is bound to care for them as a top most priority when they are as fragile and vulnerable as he himself was from birth to the time he started earning.

Lakh Laanat on the man who is living a better and more comfortable life than his parents who gave their blood and sweat to raise him. And the woman who doesn't understand this obligation, same goes for her.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Somehow I really doubt that.

You should try bending that spine of yours sometime. Who knows what you mind end up on top of. It would be good to let out all that frustration you've got bottled up inside of you.

You can doubt all you want, I just like calling BS out.

 

[RAMPAGE]

You can doubt all you want, I just like calling BS out.

"The man who could call a spade a spade should be compelled to use one. It is the only thing he is fit for." Oscar Wilde

You're too funny. I had forgotten how fun this place is. So many jokers around.

 

[Ocean]

As for rights in Islam, a man didn't meet our Prophet S.A.W until his mother allowed him. She refused him many times and he obeyed. And when she finally gave him permission, then he made the journey to meet him S.A.W.

Never read about this silly stuff and it means jack to me. To me my prophet is above my parents. Is it also not in hadees if your parents donot accept islam and stop you from it , do not hold yourself back from accepting Allahs message but at the same time do not abandon them or treat them badly. So if his mother stopped him from meeting my prophet (pbuh) she was stopping him from going in Allahs path, a right she does not hold and he should not have listened to her. Obeying her was his personal choice and does not count as anything before Allah and would not earn him any reward. But if his mother was ill and that is why he could not go then that is perfectly understandable. Please do not bring out weird anecdotes using religion. It is ideal to stick to the topic.

is as simple as that --> if the man can't afford to keep his wife separate, then he should not do so at the expense of not caring for his parents. His parents struggled a good chunk of their life for his welfare and he is bound to care for them as a top most priority.

This argument was atleast never put forth by me that get a seperate home at expense of not caring for his parents. But definitely had said that parents should also be more accommodative and not interfere in daughter in laws matters or wrongfully use their authority. Same goes for daughter in law to not harass them. But usually it does not happen. One of the two parties choose to take up bullying roles.

 

[Divergent]

• FYI, There is a reason Maslow's hierarchy theory is presented IN A HIERARCHY. The argument by Maslow, was that you start at the bottom and move on from there. Safety needs come after your basic needs are met (basic needs include your food, water, warmth, clothing and shelter).Now go ahead and explain how do you fulfill your basic needs when your expenses are greater from your income ? (i.e. the reason I keep bringing up 50% multidimensional poverty statistic / remember the poverty line set at $2 a day means an income of about 60$ a month. i.e. Rs. 6000 a month, forget food, water, warmth, the average 1 bedroom apartment costs you Rs.13,000+)
  
  
• just a recap ... your basic argument a little while ago was, since it's inconvenient for the wife, because of the problems in the joint family, therefore they should separate. Now here is a case of convenience that a joint family provides i.e. taking care of the children/education etc. and your like naaah, forget about convenience ... 'it is still doable'.
  
  
• Here is a thing we can actually agree on . The potential Husband and Wife should let each other know before hand what they want their living arrangement to be. He shouldn't sign on the dotted line if he knows that he can't afford what she's expecting. Likewise, she shouldn't get in a nikkah with a person, whose expectations are different from what she can provide.

Sorry to disappoint you but there is no story ... rather, in this case, it's just abdulbarijan vs individuals who want to have their cake and eat it too, who just happen to be female by coincidence + Spineless dudes who'd rather oblige like a 'good little puppy' instead of calling BS out when they see it ...

Your statistics mean nothing because realistically everyone's expenditures are different.

If the Mrs wants her own place get it her - be it rental or council. It's her damn right.

Seriously 20-30 years? By 22 majority guys start working , imean you said 30 years , that is so uncommon.

Noone is saying abandon the parents. The argument is no one should interfere in others matters unless inevitable. And when parents are still earning and could take care of themselves then no harm in getting a new house- this scenario i have mentioned in a previous post, that my aunts husband was earning well, her daughter in law wanted a seperate home , they all were living in a medium size house with one bedroom alloted to married couple, guys siblings were living with them too, the guy could have easily gotten her a seperate house but instead he chose to divorce her. Third instance is when your siblings get married, then move out to a new house and your parents can come along.

Just imagine your own sister or daughter in place of your wife and think she has moved to a new household surrounded by total strangers, would you not want her to be treated well and feel comfortable. When i imagine my own sister or close female relative i totally feel it, and that makes me think my wife is also someone elses daughter and a human , so must be given similar treatment just as i wish for my own sister.

Obviously i am not advocating for a joru ka ghulam type who even thinks from his wifes brain , that is so freaking stupid.

Lastly, you said parents meet your needs for 30years , true parents are important, but our religion has set everyones rights. Your parents wont live forever, so your early 40years would be spent with them but next 30 years are going to spend with your partner. And your partner is just not your partner but a parent of your future kids too.

but if one has to give a second class citizen place to their partner then it is ideal they should not get married.

Wohi pakistani parents jo pakistan say layi gayi bahu ki choti choti baton pay issues rakhtay hain , when another one of their sons marries a non pakistani or a gori, who does not follow any of the pakistani traditions, wohi parents doosri bahu kay ooper aitraz nahi kartay. Pakistani system is jissay dabba saktay ho ussay oppress karo, jis kay samnay pata hai chalni nahi hai uskay samnay bolnay ki himmat hee na karo.

Can someone please give this guy a Positive rating.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Your statistics mean nothing because realistically everyone's expenditures are different.

If the Mrs wants her own place get it her - be it rental or council. It's her damn right.

- First off these are AVERAGE STATISTICS taken from a reputable site that actually compiles alot of data regarding 'cost of living' thereby a reflection of the economic reality that we have in this country. Just because they are inconvenient to your argument, doesn't mean that "statistics mean nothing" ..

-Secondly, ofcourse it is her right. But you know before hand the financial capability of the man. Heck, thats practically the first thing the girl's family wants to know. Like I've said before about the whole poverty statistics, there is a population in millions which can't afford houses or rentals, the only solution you have to overcome the costs is a joint family. BTW Let's not forget that the same religion instructs you to make Nikkah easy. The only real solution is that you tell your expectations beforehand, in terms of a living arrangement ...

 

[Verve]

Never read about this silly stuff and it means jack to me. To me my prophet is above my parents. Is it also not in hadees if your parents donot accept islam and stop you from it , do not hold yourself back from accepting Allahs message but at the same time do not abandon them or treat them badly. So if his mother stopped him from meeting my prophet (pbuh) she was stopping him from going in Allahs path, a right she does not hold and he should not have listened to her. Obeying her was his personal choice and does not count as anything before Allah and would not earn him any reward. But if his mother was ill and that is why he could not go then that is perfectly understandable. Please do not bring out weird anecdotes using religion. It is ideal to stick to the topic.


This argument was atleast never put forth by me that get a seperate home at expense of not caring for his parents. But definitely had said that parents should also be more accommodative and not interfere in daughter in laws matters or wrongfully use their authority. Same goes for daughter in law to not harass them. But usually it does not happen. One of the two parties choose to take up bullying roles.

You conveniently dodged the 'return of the 22 years' part!

According to some here, parents should slave themselves to raise the children but when it comes to children making significant sacrifices to look after their parents, it's not really an issue if they do not. Meanwhile, parents should also not be a burden on the children in anyway whatsoever, and if they are then they are at fault.

Low life selfish mentality that! Laanat on such.

 

[Jungibaaz]

It's not just outdated, it's antiquated. If this is all any given woman or daughter-in-law aspires to, then fine. But these women can be and should be much more than a list of chores.

Women are half the labour force of any nation, and possibly more than half of its future since the upbringing of children, especially in Pakistan is in their control.

To ask 'what then could make a good daughter-in-law?', is then no less of a vague question than saying 'what makes a good person?', surely? Is the gharelu type necessarily better than the female doctor, nurse or teacher who works hard serving not just the family but society too?

 

[Divergent]

- First off these are AVERAGE STATISTICS taken from a reputable site that actually compiles alot of data regarding 'cost of living' thereby a reflection of the economic reality that we have in this country. Just because they are inconvenient to your argument, doesn't mean that "statistics mean nothing" ..

-Secondly, ofcourse it is her right. But you know before hand the financial capability of the man. Heck, thats practically the first thing the girl's family wants to know. Like I've said before about the whole poverty statistics, there is a population in millions which can't afford houses or rentals, the only solution you have to overcome the costs is a joint family. BTW Let's not forget that the same religion instructs you to make Nikkah easy. The only real solution is that you tell your expectations beforehand, in terms of a living arrangement ...

Your argument isn't based on temporary purposes such as 'it's difficult to arrange a house immediately but with time (mention scale) that can be organised eventually' - your argument here is that she has no choice and has to stay within a joint family system for the rest of her life. That's just unreasonable but then again acceptable for those few females who desire it.

It's not just outdated, it's antiquated. If this is all any given woman or daughter-in-law aspires to, then fine. But these women can be and should be much more than a list of chores.

Women are half the labour force of any nation, and possibly more than half of its future since the upbringing of children, especially in Pakistan is in their control.

To ask 'what then could make a good daughter-in-law?', is then no less of a vague question than saying 'what makes a good person?', surely? Is the gharelu type necessarily better than the female doctor, nurse or teacher who works hard serving not just the family but society too?

YASSS!

You conveniently dodged the 'return of the 22 years' part!

According to some here, parents should slave themselves to raise the children but when it comes to children making significant sacrifices to look after their parents, it's not really an issue if they do not. Meanwhile, parents should also not be a burden on the children in anyway whatsoever, and if they are then they are at fault.

Low life selfish mentality that! Laanat on such.

Shut up with your laanats - no one said ditch the parents.

 

[Ocean]

You conveniently dodged the 'return of the 22 years' part!

According to some here, parents should slave themselves to raise the children but when it comes to children making significant sacrifices to look after their parents, it's not really an issue if they do not. Meanwhile, parents should also not be a burden on the children in anyway whatsoever, and if they are then they are at fault.

Low life selfish mentality that! Laanat on such.

No i did not dodge any part dude? I never said abandon your parents. I had not even said that when i quoted your first post. I repeated tht in previous posts, how else should i write for you to get it?

As of lanat , man you seem to love sending lanats at the drop of hat. There is a hadees , one who needlessly curses others gets the curse boomerang back at him. Plus our prophet always refrained from cursing others and showed immense tolerance and here we see you lanat this lanat that. If Our prophet was so intolerant, judgy and hard on people islam would never have spread.
But you can carry on.

Last thing every human will be accountable for how he treated every relation in his life. A woman who needlessly makes life hard for her husband will have to answer for that, similarly when you said one should not refrian from making significant sacrifices for parents, then if those sacrifices come at the expense of violating rights of other relationships in your life, then the guy will also have to be answerable for that zulm.

Your argument isn't based on temporary purposes such as 'it's difficult to arrange a house immediately but with time (mention scale) that can be organised eventually' - your argument here is that she has no choice and has to stay within a joint family system for the rest of her life. That's just unreasonable but then again acceptable for those few females who desire it.



YASSS!



Shut up with your laanats - no one said ditch the parents.

Karnay do lanats. Let him unleash his expertise which is lanat this lanat that. Agar Allah nay aisay logon ki baaton pay lanat laga deni hoti tau dunya khatam ho chuki hoti.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Your argument isn't based on temporary purposes such as 'it's difficult to arrange a house immediately but with time (mention scale) that can be organised eventually' - your argument here is that she has no choice and has to stay within a joint family system for the rest of her life. That's just unreasonable but then again acceptable for those few females who desire it.

Nope thats actually a misrepresentation. I've previously stated that around 60, the people with high paying jobs, usually break off from the joint family as they have the resources, most of the time the previous generation has passed away etc. However, going by hard numbers alone, thats only possible for people with good steady high paying jobs. This is where the literacy rate comes in, as usually the jobs achieved are in part a function of the education that you receive. In Pakistan the rate is around 6% (as per the data in 07) for people that actually are university graduates ... other than those, it's quite a challenge to find a high paying job, or start a business that renders out profits in the margins which can give you the financial power to buy houses. That still leaves alot of people in the poverty range ...

Again, the religion also tells you to make nikkah easy, the fact that some lady wants a life style that is out of the financial reach of the husband, while knowing his financial capability beforehand ... is the something that can be classified as unreasonable ...

 

[Ocean]

It's not just outdated, it's antiquated. If this is all any given woman or daughter-in-law aspires to, then fine. But these women can be and should be much more than a list of chores.

Women are half the labour force of any nation, and possibly more than half of its future since the upbringing of children, especially in Pakistan is in their control.

To ask 'what then could make a good daughter-in-law?', is then no less of a vague question than saying 'what makes a good person?', surely? Is the gharelu type necessarily better than the female doctor, nurse or teacher who works hard serving not just the family but society too?

Of the last para of your post. Our women are treated as burden because we do not allow them to work, that is against our ghairat , then when they face marital issues we do not want them to get divorced because in that case father and brother will have to bear financial expenses. Educate them ,allow them to work so that when they are in need they can support themselves monetarily without depending on dads and brothers and bitchy bhabis and would be able to find a way out of a miserable marriage.