What is your favorite Turkic Muslim Empire?

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

I don't care for biased opinions, whether from Iranians or non-Iranian/anti-iranian/pan-turk Azeri's, i actually rely on facts.
As i said, Genetic testing demonstrates primarily the Turkification of the region rather than that the Azeri Turks are descendants of migrants from Central Asia.

"Another study, conducted in 2003 by the Russian Journal of Genetics, compared Iranian-language speakers of the Republic of Azerbaijan (the Talysh and Tats) with Turkic Azerbaijanis (Azeri Turks) and found that the genetic structure of that populations, compared with the other Iranian-speaking populations (Persians from Iran, Ossetins, and Tajiks), were closer to Turkic Azerbaijanis than to Iranian-speaking populations elsewhere."

"In 2006 M. Regueiro and A.M. Cadenas of Stanford University show that the population of central Iran (Isfahan) group to Caucasian Azeri people more than population of Turkey in terms of haplogroup distributions and genetic homogeneity."

"Genetic testing has also revealed Azeri population of Iran group more with other Iranian peoples especially with central Iranian people of Isfahan and Azeri population from the Republic of Azerbaijan group more with Caucasian people and people of central Iran."

And etc and etc

Copy past from wikipedi is your source, i got it; but for Gods sake; read them before past them.

---0-----

This is a part from your source, please read them carefully before copy/past; otherwise the humiliation is inevitable.
[QUOTE]
A combination of cultural and geographical fa-
cilitators may be responsible for the stronger genetic in-
 uence of Turkey on Iran.

[/QUOTE]

-----o------


Give the links so that we can read them; otherwise , we will be mislead by you again.

 

[xenon54 out]

If @MertKaan had been here, he would gladly debunk him with his "haploid group, x chromosome" stuff.

Taking Genetic tests as reference after centurys of mixing is so ridiculous...

 

[ELTurco]

Actually Seljuqs official language was persian but their origin was Oghuz Turks.


Great Seljuq Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you speak English does that change the fact you are Turk?

i am talking about origin.. no need to bring in other factors.

 

[telkon]

and i forgot to say that Ismail I, the founder of Safavid dynasty and Abbas II wrote poems in turkish, which are seen as classics of azerbaijani poetry.

 

[xenon54 out]

Are you a idiot or something?

you speak English does that change the fact you are Turk?

Hey watch your mouth ok...
I didnt say they are persian, i said:

Actually Seljuqs official language was persian but their origin was Oghuz Turks.

Its not my problem if you have problems with reading...

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Are you a idiot or something?

you speak English does that change the fact you are Turk?

Do you know what is sad?


They have no information for a discussion, but still go into a discussion, and then when some one brings a data to prove their point; she aprroves them immediately and then starts to 'okey but' sentence.

and then say there is no harm we should discuss! There are 5 pages of discussion about serials and some girls!

and i forgot to say that Ismail I, the founder of Safavid dynasty and Abbas II wrote poems in turkish, which are seen as classics of azerbaijani poetry.

An example:

A poem by Shah Ismail that refers to his father Shaykh Haydar.

Əzəldən şah bizim sultanımızdır,Pirimiz, mürşidimiz, xanımızdır.

Shah is our Sultan since the dawn of time,
He is our Pir, Murshid, Khan.

Şaha qurban gətirdik biz bu canı,
Şahın sözü bizim imanımızdır.

We sacrificed our lives for our Shah,
His words are our belief/faith.

Həsudə yoxdurur, yalançıya mərg,
Şah, gerçək söhbəti bürhanımızdır.

No place for liers,
Shah is our true evidence.

Şahı həq deyibən girdik bu yola,
Hüseyniyüz, bu gün dövranımızdır.

We put ourselves in this path considering (our) Shah as the sole truth,
We are followers of Hussein ibn Ali, today is our day.

Biz imam qullariyüz sadiqanə,
Şəhidlik, qazilik nişanımızdır.

We are the faithful servants of Imam,
Martydom is our target.

Yolumuz incədir, incədən-incə
Bu yolda baş verək, ərkanımızdır.

Our path is thin, very tin.
We shall dedicate ourselves in this path, its our salvation.

Xətayiyəm, özüm şah Heydər oğlu.
Şahı həq bilməyən düşmanımızdır.

I'm Khatai, myself son of Shah Haydar.
He who doesn't recognize our Shah is our enemy.

 

[xenon54 out]

Do you know what is sad?


They have no information for a discussion, but still go into a discussion, and then when some one brings a data to prove their point; she aprroves them immediately and then starts to 'okey but' sentence.

and then say there is no harm we should discuss! There are 5 pages of discussion about serials and some girls!




An example:

I even gave a link, its your problem if you cant read...

 

[-SINAN-]

and then say there is no harm we should discuss! There are 5 pages of discussion about serials and some girls!

I'm sorry , it's my fault.

@Neptune if it is not going to be a burden, can you clean the off-topic posts .

I think i made a mess here, i won't repeat the same.

 

[ELTurco]

Hey watch your mouth ok...
I didnt say they are persian, i said:



Its not my problem if you have problems with reading...

who care about official language.. i was talking about their origins

anyway i am sorry didnt mean to hurt you cigerim

 

[xenon54 out]

who care about official language.. i was talking about their origins

anyway i am sorry didnt mean to hurt you cigerim

No problem...

 

[xenon54 out]

Anyway, lets agree to disagree...(seems to be the norm here haha)
Don't want to continue debating and discussing when it doesn't go anywhere.

Yeah agreed, it looks like there is no possibility of a mature discussion on this issue.

 

[telkon]

As Xenon said, they were Turks of origin but heavily Persianized, hence Turko-Persian.
Also the Safavid was Persian. Do some research before you post.

The Ottoman is the sole "pure" Turkic empire really of the three.
While as Safavid's were Persian and the Mughals were a Persianized Turko-Mongol empire( I guess you could count the Mughals as Turks in a sense).




Source: Pietro Della Valle, EARLY Sixteenth-Century.
"The Safavids were descendants of the Achaemenid Persians, of Xerxes and Darius. That is why they were honorable, reliable, valiant, and curious, that is, they were civilized."
He also mentions that they spoke Persian there, and makes a big distinctions between Persians and Turks.

Source: Sir John Chardin, Travels in Persia, tailed, sharply observed portrait of 17th-century Persia.
Sir John Chardin, when explaining his meeting with the King of the Safavid Empire with his companion and two frenchmen, the one a goldsmith and the other a watchmaker, who all three of them did not understand a single word of Persian, but only the Turkish, which John Chardin also understood.
"He took notice I made use of no Interpreter to answer for me and he ask'd the Secretary if I spoke the Language of the Country, His secretary answer'd him that I did speak to him in Persian."

Just read this book, Iran and the world in the Safavid Age.Edited By Willem Floor and Edmund Herzig.
It did state that there were some elites speaking Turkish during a period if you read the source he used, but it says that the Official language of the Safavid Empire was Persian, and that it also was the first language of political and cultural performance. And that the Safavids was in fact Persian.
And it also state a lot about Persian being used in the Ottoman empire.

And i could provide a lot more sources.....Old sources and new ones.

Anyway, as i said. The Safavids were in fact Persian. They called themselves Persians, others called them Persian, Europe wanted help from them against the Turks also(the ottomans that is) but the Persians already had their own issues with the Turks and etc.

The Ottomans were Turks, The Safavids were Persians, their origins were Turkified Iranians that spoke both Persian and Azerbaijani.


The Empire originating from the Qynyq branch of Oghuz Turks.
But it was indeed Turco-Persian since they were Persianized and also had a vast amount of Turks and Persians in it.
And no, speaking English doesn't mean that you aren't a Turk anymore if your origins are Turkish.
But adapting to English culture, using English in everything, speaking Turkish less than English and moving to an English country, marrying English men or women, getting kids. Seeing yourself as English and your kids. That makes it an English-Turkish family.

Anyway, lets agree to disagree...(seems to be the norm here haha)
Don't want to continue debating and discussing when it doesn't go anywhere.

yeah, whatever. seems like you live in fantasyland. safevids and achamenids. that's really something at that time europeans believed black men were inferior to white men and there were mountaions made of pure gold. you're just quoting his thoughts about safevids being achamenids' successors. that's an idea coming from a man of a badly educated era. i can keep on debunking your hypotheses but i'm sleepy

 

[BeyondHeretic]

The safavids were torks , and took torks with them wherever they went , where do you think the Esfahanis have got their semi-Turkic sounding accent from ? they pronounce "ch" exactly like torks do

Esfahan is infact what Tehran will be like in the future , persianized torks , who only speak Persian and consider themselves "Persian" or even "Aryan" , wherever they go , specially in the united states.

 

[AlpErTunga]

The safavids were torks , and took torks with them wherever they went , where do you think the Esfahanis have got their semi-Turkic sounding accent from ? they pronounce "ch" exactly like torks do

Esfahan is infact what Tehran will be like in the future , persianized torks , who only speak Persian and consider themselves "Persian" or even "Aryan" , wherever they go , specially in the united states.

Turks live where Safavids live, anyway. Azerbaijan is a free and one of powerful Turkic States today. So that Safavid didn't go anywhere in fact, they still have a glorious flag upon them.

 

[BeyondHeretic]

I would put that percentage at 30+ , and turks aren't the only minority there are kurds , shomalis , baluch and arab too , so you see the Persians are the real minority