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What India won’t get from Putin in Delhi

sonicboom

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What India won’t get from Putin in Delhi

After the rah rah is over, Bharati diplomats and Russian sales people will sit down and do some buying and selling. The negotiations are similar to the negotiations between the Native Americans (who were just as dumb) to buy the liquor, the small-pox laden blankets, and the tobacco from the European settlers in America. Then as now, the Greeks bearing gifts represent nothing more than the “East India Company” of today. They will trade, and then emasculate the independence and sovereignty.

The Delhi Dud Report on Indian Defense: Arms that don’t work
The CAG Report on Indian duds video
The Delhi Dud Report video
Who is responsible for the duds in the Bharati Defense establishment. VIDEO
The declining Indo-Russian relationship. Delhi scrambles for new arms sources but they come with strings.
Why doesn’t Russia transfer Flanker Su-30 development technology to India?

The Indo-Russian relationship has turned particularly nasty since Delhi began romancing the stones of Washington. The last snub that Bharat received was during the London Conference when Afghanistan was handed on a platter to Pakistan and Delhi was given a seat in the second row. Russia was part and parcel of the deal at the London conference, and didn’t even allow Delhi a graceful exit ahead of time or a face saving life-jacket during the conference. Delhi had to take the snub by 61 countries on the chin.

What Delhi want get from Mr. Putin is a sale price on arms. Bharat will pay through the nose, because of its own incompetence in not being able to generate a plane, a tank, a missile or any major artifact which could be passed off as military hardware. It is ironic that a third world country that hosts 75% of the poor, and whose entire population (except for the city dwellers) lives below the standard of living of sub-sharan Africa. Hundreds of arms companies will give away free key-chains in a Mumbai while half the population of the city lives on sidewalks–the city host of the world’s largest garbage dump called a slum, and the city embroiled in ethnic and race conflict today.

Of course Putin won’t see the Shiv Sena proclaiming Mumbai for Maharashtra rioting, but he surely won’t seriously support Bharat aspirations for a seat on the Shanghai Cooperation organization (SCO), the UN Security Council or even on the London Conference on Afghanistan. Gone are the days of the Delhi-Moscow defense cooperation that shook Bharat. Delhi got hundreds of Flying Coffins and rust buckets out of its military relationship with Moscow. Now there is to be more of the same.

New York sold for a few pennies.

Louisiana almost given away

Alaska handed over. Yet the “Indians” never learned, then or now.

The Turkish president was in Delhi too–however he did nothing to reverse his decision in not inviting Bharat to Istanbul for the conference on Afghanistan.

Bharat (aka India) is the only country of its size that is still purchasing aircraft from the rest of the planet. It doesn’t have the infrastructure, or the manufacturing expertise to build planes. It has been assembling aircraft and calling them locally manufactured for the past several decades. This was recently admitted by the head of the Indian Air Force, and widely reported in the Bharati press. Abject failure in indigenous arms production forced Delhi to buy weapons without Transfer of Technology

The Delhi Dud Report on Indian Defense: Arms that don’t work. This story wasn’t supposed to be funny—it just comes out that way.

Mr. Putin will surely sign agreements to sell Bharat stuff. Here is a listing:

1) The jacked up price (three times the original and 60% more than market value) will be reduced by a fraction and Bharat will have to pay hard currency to the tune of $3 Billion for a rust bucket that was obsoleted 20 years ago. Bharat wants to have the prestige of a rusty tub sailing in the ocean with a Tro-colored flag. No matter that it doesn’t have planes for it when it arrives. The squadron will be ostentatiously named “Black Panthers” won’t be ready when the Admiral G arrives.The Air-carft carrier they are supposed already be in the ocean (if Delhi and Moscow are able to agree on a price that is).

The decision will be formally announced a few days before the visit,’ a senior Russian official said here. The visit by Putin, a former president, will be his first to India after becoming prime minister.

Talks are also expected on the final price of Russian-built aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov. The price has been finalised and is awaiting the approval of the Cabinet Committee on Security. Putin visit: India may sign for 29 MiG-29K fighters, 2010-02-13 14:40:00, Last Updated: 2010-02-13 15:02:07

2) Bharat will plunk down several billion Dollars for a “joint” FGFA fighter which Russia calls PAKFA. One slight problem with the timeline. While Bharat is advertising a joint design–Russia jsut tested the PAKFA several weeks ago. While HAL advertises that it will be jointly manufactured, the Russian Ambassador laughed at the suggestion. He wanted to know what value add Bharat will bring to the table for the PAKFA. Thus its simply a sales deal.

3) Bharat will buy the Mig 29s which will arrive at a later date, while the creeky Admiral G sails naked. Carrier without plans. Planes without ship: Desperate India rebuffed on Su-33s now seeks untested F-35s

Indian rust bucket aircraft carrier Viraat without planes. Maritime Mig 29ks without carrier (Gorshkov)

The MiG 29K are to be based on the INS Vikramaditya, as the Indian Navy has rechristened the Gorshkov carrier for which a re-negotiated price is yet to be contracted.

Essentially, the Indian Navy is now beginning to get the aircraft without the carrier to base them in. So it has fashioned an airstrip that is mimicking the Gorshkov’s flying deck in the INS Hansa, the naval base in Goa, to induct the MiG 29K.

Among the five aircraft for which the Indian Navy has sent Requests for Information (RFI) are the F-18 Superhornet (made by Boeing for the US Navy), Eurofighter Typhoon (EADS supported by a European consortium) and France’s Dassault Aviation for the Rafale.

The Indian Navy had originally not sent an RFI to Sweden’s SAAB but the company expressed interest and was sent a request for the naval variant of the Gripen JAS 39. Daily Telegraph. India. Deck not ready yet, navy scouts for aircraft SUJAN DUTTA

Rust bucket Arihant: Delhi’s clunky, noisy Soviet era Charlie class tub assembled from Russian submarine kit

New Delhi: India is likely to ink a deal to purchase an additional 29 MiG-29K fighter jets, valued close to $1.12 billion, from Russia during the visit of Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin in March.

The deal will be signed along with two other major defence contracts – for the joint development of fifth generation aircraft and multi role transport aircraft.

‘The deal will be inked during Prime Minister Putin’s visit. Putin visit: India may sign for 29 MiG-29K fighters, 2010-02-13 14:40:00, Last Updated: 2010-02-13 15:02:07

4) There will be other deals too, with Moscow selling Bharat with stripped down versions of its arms–mostly Moscow selling and the Injuns buying!

The two contracts – for Gorshkov and additional MiG-29Ks - will further consolidate Russia’s position as the largest defence supplier to India, having notched up defence sales worth over $35 billion since the 1960s.

The MiG-29K is a modernized naval variant of the MiG-29 operational with the Indian Air Force (IAF). The MiG-29K operates from aircraft carriers.

The Indian Navy is keen to replace its fleet of Sea Harrier aircraft. The new fighter jets will operate from the indigenous aircraft carrier being built at Cochin Shipyard. They will be armed with air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles.

India has already contracted for 16 MiG-29K combat jets which will be deployed on-board Gorshkov, to be commissioned in the Indian Navy as INS Vikramaditya. The first four of the 16 aircraft have been delivered to India and will be formally inducted on Feb 19 in Goa.

The jets were purchased by the Indian Navy as part of a $1.5 billion deal signed with Russia in January 2004 for Admiral Gorshkov. Of this, $740 million was meant for the aircraft and the balance for refitting the carrier.

The Russians have now upped the price for Gorshkov to between $2.2 billion and $2.9 billion and negotiations on the price are currently underway.

The navy will eventually be getting 12 MiG-29K single-seater aircraft and four MiG-29KUB twin-seat trainer aircraft, some in flyaway condition. The trainer version is similar to the single-seater but with a slightly reduced operational range.

The navy has named its MiG-29K squadron the ‘Black Panthers’.

The navy’s MiG-29Ks have arrester gear and stronger landing gear for carrier landings, folding wings and rust-proofing to prevent corrosion from salt water, its manufacturer says on its website.

The aircraft features a fully digitised glass cockpit, improved engine protection against ingestion of foreign particles like birds, a multi-mode radar and increased range. The contract ensures that the navy gets the entire spectrum of services, including a full mission simulator.

The MiG-29K will provide aerial cover to the carrier’s battle group, acquire air superiority and destroy sea-borne and ground-based targets with guided high-precision weapons during the day and at night and in any weather condition, an official of the Indian Navy said.

The aircraft, the first bought by the navy after the Sea Harriers, will also be capable of playing the role of midair refueller. Putin visit: India may sign for 29 MiG-29K fighters, 2010-02-13 14:40:00, Last Updated: 2010-02-13 15:02:07

First a few data points, and then the Daily Telegraph story, which we have reported on before.

The Indian Navy has recently floated a tender for new aircraft for a yet to be be built Air Craft Carrier.

Apparently this Navy tender delivers another blow to the the “yet to see daylight”—Kevari based Tejas. Indian Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), continues to falter even after 25 years. The immutable Tejas aircraft development has been in the perennial design phase for the past three decades—with development ending nowhere in sight. Last we heard, it was being retrofitted with a yet to be determined GE engine (after the multi-billion Dollar failed Kevari was finally cancelled last year). Unmitigated failure: Indian Tejas scrapped. New Snecma plane?

Paleolithic vintage Indian Aircraft Carrier INS Viraat has been mothballed a few times. The first time when the British discarded it decades ago. Then the Indian Navy mothballed it—in anticipation of the arrival of the Admiral Gorshkov (which has not been delivered on time, and may never be delivered to Bharat).

The INS Viraat has Paleolithic vintage Harrier Aircraft—the squadron strength is down to fifty percent and counting. For all practical purposes, it has no planes.

The Virrat now has a great looking “ ‘water’ slide” which may work for a third rate water park—but is pretty basic and useless for ensuring modern aircraft to take off from a Aircraft Carrier
The Admiral Gorshkov ripoff. The Neolithic vintage Russian Aircraft Carrier Admiral Gorshkov has also been mothballed, at least once. The Russians mothballed it in the 80s after the demise of he USSR.Aircraft Carrier “Admiral Gorshkov”: Delhi wanted a Lada, & now demands a Mercedes

Originally, the Admiral Gorshkov was supposed to get the Su-33s (Aircraft Carrier version). The Russians are selling them to the Chinese for the Chinese Aircraft Carrier. The Russians have apparently now refused to sell Delhi the Su-33s (which were the planes originally designed for the Gorshkov).

It gets better—the 20 Mig 29s (actually stripped down versions of older Migs) were sent to Delhi in “kit format” (knocked down version), so Delhi could assemble the planes and then claim that they were “manufactured” in Bharat. All these have not even been assembled, let alone prepped for any take-off or landing practice. Delhi Duds: The fiasco of the IAFs Mig 29s. The Mig 29s are rusting in crates in an undisclosed location—possibly near Goa.More Flying coffins?

Desperate for planes, Delhi is doing what Delhi politicians know best—float another tender and spend billions—so that the kickbacks can fill the pockets of the Russia mafia and the indolent leaders of the Congress or the BJP. Not surprisingly the Indian Navy has floated a tender for Aircraft Carrier based planes to adorn the yet to be delivered Admiral Gorshkov (neither the price, nor the schedule of the Air Craft Carrier has been decided upon).

The new Indian Navy tender bid is for Boeng’s F-18 Superhornet, Eurofighter Typhoon and France’s Dassault Aviation’s Rafale. Amazingly the Indian Navy has now requested a bid from Lockheed for the F-35s (5th gen plane that has been funded my the US and the Europeans).

The F-35 has not been tested, and initial results are not very positive. The Australians and the Kiwis as well as some of the Europeans are livid at the performance of the plane. Some analysts believe that it may face the fate of the dumped F-111s

The Indian Navy’s order comes on the heels of the Air Force order of 126 planes that will be delivered in the next decade or so.

The current Indian Navy’s order for the 20 F-18s etc are not for the Admiral Gorshkov (or INS Vikarm—if it ever gets transferred to Delhi).

The current INS order will be for India’s old “indigenous” (read Russian kit). Delhi’s Kochi (called IAC for Indigenous Aircraft Carrier) is still a twinkle in the eyes—as the “keel has recently been laid”. Building an Aricraft Carrier is a huge enterprise, and even China with its huge infrastructure and money has been struggling with it. If Kochi ever sees light, it will have brand spanking aircraft ready for its deck—if the planes are delivered on time

Bharat (aka India) has a 50s vintage obsolete aircraft carrier but doesn’t have the planes to carry them. Half of them crashed under the inept leadership of the IAF which has the worst crash record of any Air Force on the planet.

On the other hand the mothballed Russian Aircraft Carrier Gorshkov for which Bharat has paid about $3 Billion still doesn’t have a confirmed delivery date or even a confirmed contract to which both parties (Delhi and Moscow) have agreed upon. The Mig 29s that were supposed to have been carried by Gorshkov have arrived and have no home—they were built to take off and land from Aircraft Carriers. MiG-29Ks are the maritime version of the Migs and their maximum effectiveness emanates from the deck of an aircraft carrier. They cannot land on the Viraat.

The Indian Navy had mothballed the obsolete Viraat (along with the Harriers) with a decommissioning date all set—it was recommissioned because the Gorskov got delayed by several years. The Indian Navy did not want to be left without the prestige of an Aricraft Carrier.

The arcane Viraat does not have a landing strip that can accommodate the Migs landing on it. Only the British-origin Sea Harriers which are specifically designed for Aircraft Carriers can land on the Viraat—and that landing is a “Vertical landing” (like a chopper). The vintage Sea Harriers used to be useful for reconnaissance and search and rescue mission—and have minimal fighter jet capability. The Indian Navy would have liked to fill the decks of the Viraat with the Harriers, but the planes are pretty much useless, so the Navy would rather leave the deck of the Viraat empty then to fill the deck with aircraft that serve no useful purpose.

Bharat is replacing the vintage Viraat with an expired Gorshkov. The Russians are fed up of dealing with the Indians on the Gorshkov, and the Bharatis are fed up of paying more Dollars for the Gorshkov—which is now 60% more than the price of a new Aircraft Carrier (that no body would sell to the Indians).

What India won’t get from Putin in Delhi Rupee News
 
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It's basically a cut and paste by the author from different sources and not written by himself.

Yes, there is some anti-india theme but lot of good information too.
 
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It's basically a cut and paste by the author from different sources and not written by himself.

Yes, there is some anti-india theme but lot of good information too.

what you found as a 'good information'? pls, share with us.:smokin:
 
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It's basically a cut and paste by the author from different sources and not written by himself.

Yes, there is some anti-india theme but lot of good information too.

Bingo-

In the professional world the original author would sight his sources ( not doing so is plagiarism) if the author went as far as plagiarism than he most likely also manipulated his sources, either way this is not professionally writen and shows signs of bias.
 
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Oh blast, what intelligence in the article .. India is the only country of its size that doesnt make aircraft .. apparently Australia, Canada, Brazil & Argentina have some of their own that the world never heard of but this chap knows :hitwall::hitwall:

Poor India, hungry India should not buy aircraft; just bow down to any country, no matter u fought 4 wars with them :hitwall:

Aircraft carriers are tubs, nothing more .. never mind other countries use them for decades, India shouldnt :hitwall:

The Sukhoi T-50 shall serve as the basis of FGFA and is not something HAL intends to design first hand :hitwall::hitwall:

This for the text in bold .. now please go and read how India lost all 4 wars and shall be defeated again as per the Ghazwa e Hind prediction :hitwall::hitwall:
 
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I would like to add my two paise. Who helped in the ATV project, Arihant, Who helped india in getting a killer like Brahmos and its offshoots, Who allowed the indians major modifications on the su30 so that it is a beast of a weapon.Who allowed india to going a far distance with israel even though they had a Vice like grip on us, allowing the flowering of the indigenous BMD system. Who announced their nuclear doctrine right before the sensitive agni-3 launch to deter any evil ambitions of indias enemy, who turned their nuclear arsenal towards pakistan when attack on parliament took place which made the whole world scared to death. Who helped us during 1971 war.IT WAS RUSSIA/USSR. Having said that I still say they will not transfer cuting edge technology to us. No country does that. We have to follow the hard way towards indigenization. The chinese with all reverse engineering have learnt this and are now also like india following the difficult but correct path. All countries want money, rusia more so since it does not want its capabilities to fall behind the west so they will squeeze india for money but even then a friend like russia is hard to find and definetiley both are natural allies facing common enemies and having common friends like iran etc.
 
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Wow this article is something. Perhaps the writer should look at the relationship between Uncle Sam and Pakistan. Uncle gives the Pakistani say US$1 bil in aid and makes them spend US$5bil fighting Uncle's enemies. Uncle tests his pilotless drones by bombing the heck out of Pakistan. Uncle sends his test force spying and mercenary unit to Pakistan as a playground. Uncle barks and Pakistan bows. Hmm perhaps Bharat's relationship with the Russian bear is way better than the relationship between the crescent and stars and the western eagle.

Please do not reply to such kind of hatred and nazism. You cannot.

Please dont read it, Its the worst article ever written in defence

Please do not joke. It has nothing to do with DEFENCE. The writer just spreading hatred, anti-religious and anti-ethnic nazism. Any civilized people cannot dare to write such thing.
 
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Please do not reply to such kind of hatred and nazism. You cannot.



Please do not joke. It has nothing to do with DEFENCE. The writer just spreading hatred, anti-religious and anti-ethnic nazism. Any civilized people cannot dare to write such thing.


Who said I was joking everyone has a way of expressing thing u can express urs by staying mum, But thats not my cup of tea ..........
 
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When the author has said things that are mentioned down and is still praised for providing a inside I would like to ask what is this Inside bullcrap provided by this dumbwit ......If there is something really extreme written by an Indian it is condemed considerably so why arent pakistanis on the forum doing the same



1) Bharat wants to have the prestige of a rusty tub sailing in the ocean with a Tro-colored flag

2)Bharat will plunk down several billion Dollars for a “joint” FGFA fighter which Russia calls PAKFA. One slight problem with the timeline. While Bharat is advertising a joint design–Russia jsut tested the PAKFA several weeks ago. While HAL advertises that it will be jointly manufactured, the Russian Ambassador laughed at the suggestion. He wanted to know what value add Bharat will bring to the table for the PAKFA. Thus its simply a sales deal
 
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Rupeenews of India!!!

This piece of c rap is as pakistani as ajmal kasab, deny all you want!

While Rupees news is an atrocious piece of toilet paper there are some bigger issues which India and Russia have to address. I was reading an article written by an Ex CNS of the Indian Navy and his comments were as follows

1. The russians are horrible when it comes to after sales service.

2. In many cases the new spares contracted were found to re-furbished ones.

3. Russian state companies cannot be penalised as they do not submit bank guarantees etc.

4. Russians are very slow at TOT etc

However now India is in the drivers seat as it can access US and EU tech without any strings attached. It must shift from a Russia centric buy with no legal guarantees to whats the best for India policy. Local Defence industry with higher foreign ownership must be permitted.

Regards
 
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However now India is in the drivers seat as it can access US and EU tech without any strings attached. It must shift from a Russia centric buy with no legal guarantees to whats the best for India policy. Local Defence industry with higher foreign ownership must be permitted.

Regards


Very true and the steps are already being taken in that direction

PIB Press Release
 
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Is rupee news, zaid hamid competing with Bollywood in entertainment?

Its not zaid hamid, its foul mouthed ahmad qureshi who claimed potassium chloride was used in karachi arson :)

zaid is the guy who said ajmal kasab is amar singh, a sikh and he has a 'hindu face' :)

yes they are essentially the same, liars, charlatans, snake oil salesmen and most importantly, according to some here, the future :)
 
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