What India won’t get from Putin in Delhi

[xman]

You clearly don't understand the concept of per-capita GDP. Look it up. India and Pakistan are on par at that level.

In any case, the original author's point was that the West and Russia have suckered India into the classic nouveau-riche syndrome. Flush with cash, and with a seriously wounded pride from decades of insignificance, India is spending its hard earned cash on petty, image projection symbols, rather than helping its population, most of which lives in abject poverty.

Will the Arihant or an aircraft carrier really help India in any meaningful way, other than allow a few fanbois to brag on the internet, and to try (unsuccessfully) to outmanoeuver China?

Think of how many hospitals and schools can be built with the $2.9 billion used to buy that "rust bucket" Admiral G. I know its your money and you can decide how to spend it (and Pakistan government is no better than India in this regard), but I am just stating the author's point.

Hii Troll

First of all you should study that India has Socio-Capitalistic Economy and is a Socialist republic democratic country where the tax fixation is much higher than that of Pakistan. secondly our PPP percapita Income is $1000 higher than yours. (off topic)




if we are spending money on Projection Sybols, Puppets and Toys, Why does a statemnt from your defense Ministry states that Arihant (Advance Technology Vessel) will lead to an arms race in the region and on the other hand according to you they are toys. Comming to aircraft carrier, Chinese never have operated any aircraft carrier instead they are inviting Indians to share our experiences. Does Pakistan also has any Aircraft carrier? well I think if they have their per capita income would be around $200.

 

[Developereo]

Relying on IMF hand outs and USA grant aid

India has received more foreign aid over the years than Pakistan.

A country spending nearly twice as much india on arms as a % of its GDP

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...y-spendings-different-nations.html#post533764

US 4.06 % of GDP
China 2-4% of GDP (70 b$-140b$ : defense spending)
Pakistan 3 % of GDP
India 2.5 % of GDP

a Country badly managed by a succession of military gov,ts and generals

True enough, and we are our worst critics in this regard.

YET THEY PURSUE military equality with a country who has virtually ten times the resources.

We never expected to be India's military equals; just to have enough oomph to keep the Indian warmongers at bay.

WHY is the WHOLE OF WORLD outside of pakistan " applauding and recognising india" as a NATION of REAL IMPORTANCE..

" ITS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR MILITATRY POWER.

India has a far better reputation away from home than it does with its immediate neighbors who know it better. And the reason for the West's pandering of India has been discussed. It has to do with China's rise, whom the West sees as a rival. India is not seen as a competitor by anyone; least of all China.

As the author noted, the West and Russia see India as a nouvea-riche sucker; flush with cash and with a wounded ego that demands massaging through shiny, expensive purchases.

Here are the numbers for per capita GDP $ from 3 sources

IMF
India : 2,932,
Pakistan: 2,671

World bank
India : 2,972
Pakistan: 2,644

CIA
India: 3,100
Pakistan: 2,600

You might be allowed to call this PAR but we are optimistic about the future considering the GDP growth rates.

India: 7.2%
Pakistan : 2%.

Population growth rates (World bank)
India: 1.3%
Pakistan : 2.16%

So Pakistan's population is growing more than its GDP, that will DECREASE the per capita income. While Indias GDP is growing at 3.6 times the growth in population and this will INCREASE the per capita GDP. Imagine what the per capita incomes be like in next 5- 10 years

Sigh. Not this again.

Report for Selected Countries and Subjects

GDP Per capita (from IMF):
2007: India 939.524; Pakistan 912.170
2008: India 1,016.158; Pakistan 1,044.485
2009: India 981.984; Pakistan 997.799
2010: India 1,007.891; Pakistan 1,028.596

Haq's Musings: UNDP Reports Pakistan Poverty Declined to 17%

Center for Poverty Reduction (CPRSPD), backed by the United Nations Development Program(UNDP), has estimated that Pakistan's poverty at national level declined sharply from 22.3 percent in 2005-06 (versus India's poverty rate of 42%) to 17.2 percent in 2007-08. This poverty estimate has been validated by the World Bank

And, just for kicks, the similar comparison against China.
Report for Selected Countries and Subjects

GDP Per capita:
2007: India 939.524; China 2560.417
2008: India 1,016.158; China 3315.323
2009: India 981.984; China 3622.129
2010: India 1,007.891; China 3915.395

So, to sum up,
India and Pakistan: on par
India and China: no contest

China doesn't even see India as a competitor; they are focussed on the West. It's only the West (and Russia) who massage the Indian ego to get their cash.

our PPP percapita Income is $1000 higher than yours. (off topic)

In Bollywood movies, maybe.
But in real life, the figures above apply.

if we are spending money on Projection Sybols, Puppets and Toys, Why does a statemnt from your defense Ministry states that Arihant (Advance Technology Vessel) will lead to an arms race in the region and on the other hand according to you they are toys.

Military leaders always play up the threat level to increase funding for their departments.

Comming to aircraft carrier, Chinese never have operated any aircraft carrier instead they are inviting Indians to share our experiences. Does Pakistan also has any Aircraft carrier? well I think if they have their per capita income would be around $200.

Pakistan doesn't need an aircraftr carrier. It does not fit into our military doctrine since we do not claim to project power globally. Only India is under the delusion of being an upcoming global power and is spending billions of dollars on power projection symbols which will provide little or no benefit in a realistic conflict scenario.

 

[Trisonics]

India has received more foreign aid over the years than Pakistan.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...y-spendings-different-nations.html#post533764

US 4.06 % of GDP
China 2-4% of GDP (70 b$-140b$ : defense spending)
Pakistan 3 % of GDP
India 2.5 % of GDP



True enough, and we are our worst critics in this regard.



We never expected to be India's military equals; just to have enough oomph to keep the Indian warmongers at bay.



India has a far better reputation away from home than it does with its immediate neighbors who know it far better. And the reason for the West pandering of India has been discussed also in this forum and elsewhere. It has to do with China's rise whom the West sees as a rival. India is not seen as a competitor by anyone; least of all China.

As the author noted, the West and Russia see India as a nouvea-riche sucker; flush with cash and with a wounded ego that demands massaging through shiny, expensive purchases.



Sigh. Not this again.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/34165-india-china-war-october-again-13.html#post486712

Report for Selected Countries and Subjects

GDP Per capita (from IMF):
2007: India 939.524; Pakistan 912.170
2008: India 1,016.158; Pakistan 1,044.485
2009: India 981.984; Pakistan 997.799
2010: India 1,007.891; Pakistan 1,028.596

Haq's Musings: UNDP Reports Pakistan Poverty Declined to 17%

Center for Poverty Reduction (CPRSPD), backed by the United Nations Development Program(UNDP), has estimated that Pakistan's poverty at national level declined sharply from 22.3 percent in 2005-06 (versus India's poverty rate of 42%) to 17.2 percent in 2007-08. This poverty estimate has been validated by the World Bank

And, just for kicks, the similar comparison against China.
Report for Selected Countries and Subjects

GDP Per capita:
2007: India 939.524; China 2560.417
2008: India 1,016.158; China 3315.323
2009: India 981.984; China 3622.129
2010: India 1,007.891; China 3915.395

So, to sum up,
India and Pakistan: on par
India and China: no contest

China doesn't even see India as a competitor; they are focussed on the West. It's only the West (and Russia) who massage the Indian ego to get their cash.



In Bollywood movies, maybe.
But in real life, the figures above apply.



Military leaders always play up the threat level to increase funding for their departments.



Pakistan doesn't need an aircraftr carrier. It does not fit into our military doctrine since we do not claim to project power globally. Only India is under the delusion of being an upcoming global power and is spending billions of dollars on power projection symbols which will provide little or no benefit in a realistic conflict scenario.

Here see how much Pakistan has received in "Military Aid", and additionally it has been accused of diverting other aid to military and lets also not forget the soft loans it receives from other countries, specifically for military equipment. Just like Indian military budget, pensions and other areas of expenditure is not included so the GDP spending is even more. Dont fool yourself!!!

s a result of a 1954 mutual defense assistance agreement, the United States provided nearly $2.5 billion in economic aid and nearly $700 million in military aid to Pakistan between 1954 and 1964.

$26 million in military assistance from 1965-1971

$2.9 million in military assistance from 1972-1979.

from around $60 million in economic and development assistance in 1979 to more than $600 million per year in the mid-1980s. In total, the United States provided more than $5 billion in aid—$3.1 billion in economic assistance and $2.19 billion in military assistance—from 1980 until 1990.

During the Pessler period, the U.S. provided less than $500 million—$429 million in economic assistance and $5.2 million in military assistance.

The George W. Bush administration’s expansive assistance to Pakistan in the wake of September 11 has been severely skewed toward military assistance. Of the over $11 billion dollars given to Pakistan since FY2002, 72 percent—or $8.1 billion—has been given in security-related aid. This includes Coalition Support Funds (or CSF, funds to reimburse Pakistan for its counterterrorism activities), Foreign Military Financing, and other military assistance. Meanwhile, only 23 percent—or $3.1 billion—has been given as economic-related aid.

This imbalanced assistance has neither increased Pakistani nor American security. Moreover, a lack of oversight measures for CSF funds have allowed the Pakistani military to continue its history of underinvestment in counterinsurgency training and capabilities for the regular army and the paramilitary Frontier Corps, in favor of maintaining its traditional focus against its perceived regional rival India.
Reassessing Foreign Assistance to Pakistan
for more details:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL31362.pdf

 

[Developereo]

www.fas.org

fas.org is a rabid Zionist propaganda organ.
Enough said.

The amount of (and justification for) US payments to Pakistan have been debated extensively on this forum. Pakistan provides transit to all US/NATO supplies into Afghanistan. The transit fees alone have not been reimbursed, let alone "aid".

And we have also faulted our own politicians for relying on foreign aid rather than reforming the corrupt tax system and feudal system to generate proper domestic tax revenues. Nobody is arguing that Pakistani politicains perform well; India at least has a capable and relatively honest government.

 

[xman]

In Bollywood movies, maybe.
But in real life, the figures above apply.

Economy of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Economy of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You don't have PPP at all I guess.

Military leaders always play up the threat level to increase funding for their departments.

Ya asking from Uncle SAM!
and Thats's why we are Building our weaponry, because Pkaistan's MIlitary is India Centric.

Pakistan doesn't need an aircraftr carrier. It does not fit into our military doctrine since we do not claim to project power globally. Only India is under the delusion of being an upcoming global power and is spending billions of dollars on power projection symbols which will provide little or no benefit in a realistic conflict scenario.

You can't even afford it so don't bring an excuse that your Military doctrine doesn't teach you to have an Aircraft Carrier, even if you have, you wont be able to maintain it. You Military doctrine is just India Centric, looking to take revenge of 4 lost wars with India. Using ISI and dissolving sieze fire on the line of control and international border in Rajsthan to flood in terrorist trained by you. Thats what basicaly your military doctrine says and when nothing is possible, just say we have NUKE, as if we do not. This was the answer to your REALISTIC SCENARIO.


We have the second highest ecnomic growth rate and we are a democratic country.. WE share good relations with CHinese and we will . PLus our show of Power is what a developing country has to. If you can't that's your problem. China is a power, we do not say China = Pakistan. But there is a lot of differnce. CHina has always been a permanent Member of UNO ans UNSC and that's where the Basic Power Lies. They were Assited by Russians openly in their Missile Programs during Soviet Era and massive transfer of Technology was seen.

WE do take Loans, But we return them also with Interest! That what Globalisation all about is!!!

And I think you havent read my post, where I have written about what Kind of Indian Economy is.

 

[Developereo]

Economy of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Economy of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You don't have PPP at all I guess.

No offense, but I will trust IMF over wikipedia.

Thats's why we are Building our weaponry, because Pkaistan's MIlitary is India Centric.

So you are building an aircraft carrier for a war against Pakistan? Ever looked at an atlas lately?

You can't even afford it so don't bring an excuse that your Military doctrine doesn't teach you to have an Aircraft Carrier, even if you have, you wont be able to maintain it.

If our military is India-centric, why on earth do we need an aircraft carrier to fight a war with a neighbor with a 1000 mile shared border?

An aircraftr carrier is useless without a heavy escort, and such an escort better be able to handle the adversary. China is building its military muscle to counter US capability. For them, fighting the Indian navy will be a cakewalk, comparatively.

You Military doctrine is just India Centric, looking to take revenge of 4 lost wars with India. Using ISI and dissolving sieze fire on the line of control and international border in Rajsthan to flood in terrorist trained by you. Thats what basicaly your military doctrine says and when nothing is possible, just say we have NUKE, as if we do not. This was the answer to your REALISTIC SCENARIO.


We have the second highest ecnomic growth rate and we are a democratic country. Had India been a communist Country, there would have been no Pakistan by now. and would have ran over China by today's date.But we are not Communists and we do not want to be either.

See, now you are just ranting. I guess a reality check doesn't sit well with you.

WE share good relations with CHinese and we will and You should be Thankful to our democracy.

Uh. Not really.

Both India and China know they are on a collision course and both are playing nice up front while building up their military. India has always had military superiority over Pakistan, so it doesn't need these new toys to fight Pakistan. If you think the latest Indian military acquisitions are not China-centric, think again.

China, for it's part, is gearing up to confront the West. It needs to play nice to India (at least temporarily) so it can focus on the West.

PLus our show of Power is what a developing country has to.

Again, no.

Raising people above the poverty line, educating people, feeding people, curing people of sickness is what a developing country has to do. The West has achieved those goals and can afford to splurge on military toys; China is coming along nicely. India still has a huge percent (42&#37 of its population living under the poverty line.

Don't get me wrong. I respect India's achievements and give credit mainly to its excellent education system for bringing India where it is today.

 

[xman]

No offense, but I will trust IMF over wikipedia.



So you are building an aircraft carrier for a war against Pakistan? Ever looked at an atlas lately?



If our military is India-centric, why on earth do we need an aircraft carrier to fight a war with a neighbor with a 1000 mile shared border?

An aircraftr carrier is useless without a heavy escort, and such an escort better be able to handle the adversary. China is building its military muscle to counter US capability. For them, fighting the Indian navy will be a cakewalk, comparatively.



See, now you are just ranting. I guess a reality check doesn't sit well with you.



Uh. Not really.

Both India and China know they are on a collision course and both are playing nice up front while building up their military. India has always had military superiority over Pakistan, so it doesn't need these new toys to fight Pakistan. If you think the latest Indian military acquisitions are not China-centric, think again.

China, for it's part, is gearing up to confront the West. It needs to play nice to India (at least temporarily) so it can focus on the West.



Again, no.

Raising people above the poverty line, educating people, feeding people, curing people of sickness is what a developing country has to do. The West has achieved those goals and can afford to splurge on military toys; China is coming along nicely. India still has a huge percent (42%) of its population living under the poverty line.

Don't get me wrong. I respect India's achievements and give credit mainly to its excellent education system for bringing India where it is today.

If you talk about Indo Chinese Relation, you talk about your perceptions, and we talk about ours. Recently Indian navy has offered China to protech their Oil Shipment. I don't think this happens in a war scenario. Finally I said we need to show power as every one does. Lastly, you should speak about YOUR COUNTRY and its development and relations.

Coming to Aircraft carriers, well you forgot Israel, biggest enemy of you after us, according to you Perceptions. secondly, an aircraft carrier if sent, sails in fleet which can devestate cities. Prooved in Iraq.

And for your good information Peole under poverty line are only 21% where as in your country its 24%. so stop spending on Military and do some productive work.

 

[Storm Force]

On the one HAND Developero claims india is a country full of 800 million poor wasting their scarce resources on shiny new arms

THEN the next day he says this his words

"As the author noted, the West and Russia see India as a nouvea-riche sucker; flush with cash and with a wounded ego that demands massaging through shiny, expensive purchases.

Make you mind up Develepro are India Rich or full of poor

THEY CANT BE BOTH

MAKE YOU MIND UP stop contradicting yourself.

one hand a counterweight to china THEN we cannot compete with china.

AGAIN A COMPLETE CONTRADICTION

 

[Cityboy]

lolz..gud joke..strom force..FYI china also have 2nd largest rich poor ppl.but prc doent allow free media coverage.and u ppl dont see the 98% of india budget going to education/development and keep crying on poverty....india has fought 4 wars in last 5 years..and its military spending hikes are for protecting india against 2 enemy countries

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I know I know, lets put all Shiv Sena , thugs on the carrier they can do the naked commando dance on carrier since there are no planes on it

Hmm I am just envisioning that idea lol ... god .. that is diabolical



"If the plane is not Marathi , it will not be stationed on the carrier"

 

[Parashuram1]

While Rupees news is an atrocious piece of toilet paper there are some bigger issues which India and Russia have to address. I was reading an article written by an Ex CNS of the Indian Navy and his comments were as follows

1. The russians are horrible when it comes to after sales service.

2. In many cases the new spares contracted were found to re-furbished ones.

3. Russian state companies cannot be penalised as they do not submit bank guarantees etc.

4. Russians are very slow at TOT etc

However now India is in the drivers seat as it can access US and EU tech without any strings attached. It must shift from a Russia centric buy with no legal guarantees to whats the best for India policy. Local Defence industry with higher foreign ownership must be permitted.

Regards

Actually my dear British fellow European, last time I checked there were some flaws even in the BAE Hawk deals that you made with the Indians and word has it that due to the difficulties Indian air forces are facing, they have demanded US$10 million in return from the BAE.

What would you have to say for this unfortunate black mark that mars the otherwise dazzling reputation of BAE systems?

 

[Laughing Buddha]

I know I know, lets put all Shiv Sena , thugs on the carrier they can do the naked commando dance on carrier since there are no planes on it

Hmm I am just envisioning that idea lol ... god .. that is diabolical



"If the plane is not Marathi , it will not be stationed on the carrier"

Hey what a coincident I was thinking the same.....

I was thinking let put them in some old merchant containers and send them to Pakistan... Their they will meet their brothers (Like Hafiz sayeed and other terrorist brothers ) Who has same intention Bark and Bark and never be in the real front when required