What happens when a muslim prays in a public area in US

[ITTIAM]

Somebody should stand in front of him. I did it couple of times when lot of people were doing namaz in public place, felt like they were all worshipping me. Felt awesome for some time.....

 

[Pak_Sher]

The US is very tolerant when it comes to religion. I have seen many Muslims pray in public in the US.

 

[Iggy]

@seiko wonder why the Muslims didnt tear it down

!

Great!! Now you are showing me an old non functioning church as example of religious freedom in Islamic countries.. You can do better than that!! All your other rants are not worth replying.. try harder..

BS, total BS. They have churches where they can officially pray. No issues at all!!

@Yzd Khalifa @al-Hasani

Its not bullshit.. We both know it..

 

[A.Rafay]

This is showing off praying in public places infront of people like this. Prayers should be performed in a private quite place or at home or mosque if available.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Pakistanis and many a muslims are A SHOW OF when it comes to praying---. They love their public display of praying----whereas praying is a private affair between man and God / women and God---muslims have placed prayers in a showroom

Nah, nimaz can be offered in Public, open space......though not like this in the video. If nimaz is private between an individual; and God then why we muslims pray it together in mosque?. Islam discourages praying nimaz in your room or home alone, you have to pray it with others in mosque. If mosque is not available and nimaz might become qaza and you are at park or some other place, then offer it there.

 

[Zarvan]

Pakistanis and many a muslims are A SHOW OF when it comes to praying---. They love their public display of praying----whereas praying is a private affair between man and God / women and God---muslims have placed prayers in a showroom

Sorry Sir ALLAH has ordered Muslims to pray and if he can't find a secluded place than he had to pray in public

 

[Aslan]

Because unlike other religions, Islam followers consider non Islamic religions as untrue and hence in most Islamic countries they dont get equal rights.

Karan running his mouth as usual, or how many Muslims countries have u actually lived in. Please elaborate. And how many everyday Muslims have actually tried to kill u, because u follow an untrue religion.

 

[Dubious]

Great!! Now you are showing me an old non functioning church as example of religious freedom in Islamic countries.. You can do better than that!! All your other rants are not worth replying.. try harder..

Seriously, You disappoint me! I didnt think you to be so negative! 1st you people question me why there is no church (no one mentioned it had to be functional) When I show you that...you overcome it with sarcasm! Lovely aint it!

Why not you show me where Islam and Shariah says what you cried out? Can you do that for a change? Instead of saying my family, articles from Christian sites which say Grand mufti said tear down all churches (same site few months before that said no churches allowed in Saudi and were crying lack of freedom...Do you not see the hypocrisy in that)...How about people start justifying what they cry after and for rather than just crying like maniacs?!

 

[Dubious]

Right, apologies for the late reply. Took a while to type up and had other things to attend.

No prob even I went off...Had better things to do then be the only presenting articles and stories while others just write 1 line and get a pat on the head!

Same goes for the OP's video, the kids meant well, sure, but they clearly don't know the error of their ways.

What errors?

1) It's selfish when compared not to the will of other people only, but mainly I selfish because the Muslim who's duty it is to pray has to do it for the prayer itself for God and not for any other reason. If the public prayer is done where other options are available, and that person is aware of these options then he is being selfish in imposing himself on others, for trying to pass off his personal display as the necessary prayer that is every man's duty.

1stly, they did pray to ALLAH, with wudhu...What you wrote doesnt even display selfishness...How khush is their prayer is between them and GOD. Again the thing of intention is not for us to say...All we know is they prayed...how much concentration was involved/ how much for public display and all that is not ours to question...What we need to see is...say it was true..the Americans had no problem with it....why is the rest of the PDF world reacting in a manner the Americans are not?!

2) Right, you say that but right here we have some self righteous people, who seem to think very highly of themselves and their religion and aren't afraid to make it public. Clear examples of people who don't agree with point 2 we've both agreed on.

1) Why should anyone be afraid to pray in Public? Even in Pakistan which has sectarian wars every now and then you can see people praying in public gardens and no one comes over and says anything....Even in UK you can pray in public parks, as long as you are not enforcing your will on others what is the problem? As long as you are not blocking traffic what is the problem? As long as you are praying loudly or whatever...
2) who thinks what of themselves and what not is not our business to judge!

3) Yes, without attracting attention, especially if you know that your prayer may not be seen too kindly by others. And if your purposely attract attention then you are wrong beyond reason.

Well, its not like they were praying on the road ...that would be attracting attention...If you start praying on the Empire state building with a reporter airing you, that would be attracting attention, if you had called the press and started praying that would be attention...but not if you are praying in a corner...

I think they had confidence in the American public that they will not see a man praying in public as a threat! You do niyah and start praying...I am sorry I disagree with all your points because they question the intention which we know not nor can we play GOD and appoint an intention!

4) Right, I cannot doubt that the taxi driver only meant to pray and fulfil that which is called upon us. But if that's the case then, the man is incredibly stupid, and no matter his intention inwardly, the fact is what goes on outwardly and in the minds of people around him should make him think twice.

1st you say prayer is between you and God then why would he think about what goes in the minds of other people?

4 Cont) As I said before, the kids seem to mean well, but I ask you, do you think they are aware that using prayer like that in a video, going out of your way to put it on display is a concious decision. If not, then again, they are being incredibly stupid, and inconsiderate. If the thought ever crosses their minds that they are doing this prayer and displaying for reasons other than what the prayer is meant to serve, then their intention is very wrong.

So when the Imam of Mekkah does Tarawih on tv for the whole world to see ...should we ask what goes on in his head, his awareness of a big mic in front of him or attached to his clothing? No see how that sounds?

Yup, these two guys, I've seen their videos before, they are New Yorkers, and that is central park.

mosques near central park - Google Maps



'at least' if only that was good enough...

Please watch the video again. They pray in multiple locations, including right in the middle of a pathway where I can see 2-3 people in an angled camera shot. And then again DIRECTLY outside a subway exit, only a few feet from the stairs.

Yes they pray there but do we see anyone disturbed or bothered? Is anyone stopping them? No why? Coz that is how Americans are they dont interfere unless you pose a threat! So what threat is being posed to PDF posters that they feel obliged to reject it and even question the motifs and intentions?

Yes, and maybe their intention was clean, but their actions should not be put away from question, especially since it may not be kindly taken to by others.

That is not even a problem! Maybe you have not been to US or have not met how tolerant people can be!

Take my word for it, I've been to Europe and the Americas and I've seen it post 9/11. And I've lived among people who are non-Muslims. There are a HUGE number of people that will call that unnecessary, but wont have the guts to call it because they don't want to offend anyone, such is the beauty of some western secular people. And then there are those who might well feel uncomfortable, again they may not chose to air that opinion but I'm being honest with you.

How can you say all that when you clearly said they wont say it so how can you read their minds?

If I saw a Muslim near my area praying like that I would feel that it is out of the ordinary and unnecessary. Now imagine being someone who's non-Muslim, someone who is not used to religion at all, let alone public displays, and rather imposing ones too.

1) unnecessary or not is not for us to judge?
2) Many people in West are not stupid nor ignorant many might even know what you are doing ...some who might not will not feel offended because you are not interacting with them nor taking the air around them...In fact you are just preforming your own duty nothing to do with anyone so why would anyone feel offended? Look at the video and see how the guy who was offended was told off by another person to respect the man praying! Why all the negative thoughts and all these insecure thoughts of what may happen or what can happen...once a man goes down that road...you can never pray with pride! Why hide a religion when the country itself gave you the freedom and the right...
3) Why not look at the video as the Americans exercising their rights and it is not being violated by the state or its people?

There's the honesty of it, the boys paint a rosy picture, but take it from someone who understands the way things work here and the mindset of the people.

I have been abroad my whole life! So take it from someone who has been interacting with people not from an Asian background her whole life! And how the mindset works: I have studied in different schools, collages and uni from East to West....Not one has questioned me why I prayed in Public! I are not imposing nor forcing others to join us...Its between GOD and me on public land (not even private land that someone can mind about)...As for the mindset, just look at the video I dont see even one who is even close to what you are portraying!

Of course, why would they report the police? Did I not say it was legal?

Then why is everyone on PDF objecting it?

Again, the beauty of being in this society, everyone keeps to themselves unless the boundaries of the law are crossed, the boundaries of social norms are quietly noted, opinions formed, just because they don't voice them, doesn't mean they don't hold them.

Not really...Many dont care as long as you dont bother them they are fine...now that is the social norm!

Forgive me, but I will say outright, you are not right in your assessment of people here, you need to live among them to know how they think.

Opinion is always welcomed! And mind you I have never lived among desi people for more than 2 mths (when I go to Pakistan) I have always been around my whole life maybe that is why I see everything differently!

I see a group of inner city youth, using extremely rough language and swearing, profanities etc. All while a group of children walk by, no-one says a word to them. Instead, they form their opinions, take their children elsewhere and quietly move away.

So one who is praying ...not even heard is equated to swearing? Cool! Now that shows your assessment of people is not right!

You're counting on too much. IF it was real. Which it isn't, it's a pre planned video.

In a pre planned video, they would send in people to either bully the guy or praise him...But this was not the case

IF it was real, then the person is not a sinner per se, as long as the intention is clear. But their actions are unwelcome and wrong, purely because the environment is not right for such a thing.

The video clearly shows otherwise!

Others are more open to it than most. Some here feel guilt at some Muslims for all the bad press we receive, some feel it is their duty to reach out, these are the traits of people with hearts of gold.

However many just dont care as long as they are not bothered!

And there are those people who feel uncomfortable and threatened by it and chose not a utter a word that may offend.
These people also have hearts of gold.

These are people who know when they are threatened and when not...A person standing and sitting in a corner is by far not a threat! But a person running around grabbing people and preaching might be a threat and mind you this is NY where there are more cops than needed!

Then there are those who don't welcome such displays and voice their opinion. And they are normal human beings like you and I.

Voicing is fine but insisting it is an stupid and the whole jargon is a little over the board!

If I told you to go and find a place to pray, would you prefer to do it somewhere where you could indeed concentrate or would you purposefully put yourself out there?

I pray when it is time...if I can find a spot where I wont be disturbed (be it a library, a classroom, office or the public park) all is fine as long as I am not forcing others to join me, or reading at the top of my lungs or doing anything else that might offend someone

But the point remains the same, the prayer was performed there not out of need, but in order to a shoot a video, in order to conduct a 'study'.

1stly, they stated it was 2 rakaat of sunnah prayer...not obligatory prayers...Sunnah prayers can be said anytime! So you mean to say only when the need arises do you seek thy lord?!

On the face of it, if you look a little closer, the prayer is being used other purposes rather than just praying.

Again questioning the intention is not our job

A mockery, meaning false use, not a comedy show.

Again how is it a mockery when all they did was do niat for praying with wudhu and started praying...It would be a mockery had someone come in with a gun and the guy went off running!

And as for people's reactions, read above.

What if no one reacted, would they move in their prayer and slide to the next park? No...

You are very wrong if you think it is acceptable to all here in the west.
Trust me, I've lived here for a very long time now, and I've been around and seen a lot. Enough to know where exactly I stand.

Trust me I have prayed in public and I know where I stand! So far all people have done is asked me what I did, why I prayed and then congratulated me (Europeans especially) for adhering to my faith coz it is something they were not able to do or care about. (that was new to me) ...Maybe I am around educated people (uni, office, institute)

Believe me, if I applied the common Pakistani mentality to these videos. I'd say 'Mashallah, God bless them'.
But living here I know better, and meeting the people I've met, I know better.

Today's common Pakistani mentality is WTH why is he embarrassing himself! Just browse the thread and see for yourself!

That's because people are considerate.

Plus they dont really poke in other's business...Heck if someone is drunk and has fallen asleep in 1 corner also people are considerate enough not to bug him! So how is praying in a corner going to offend them?

My friend, THIS IS NOT PAKISTAN! Where if a non-Muslim puts his religion on display, he might might attract unwanted consequences.

Exactly my point! This is not the intolerant places + people so why are people on PDF raising concerns about this and that?

Here people are free, and people are not allowed to challenge someone, nor is it the norm. I could have walked past a person praying, thought a great deal bad and not even batted an eye lid, let alone commit something drastic.

Yet the whole of this post you spoke otherwise!

Sigh. Same as above, all this has been addressed, first of all, it's not a mockery in the way you think it is, it's a mockery of the prayer made by you to offend God. Not made by others to offend you. Get that part clear.

I beg your pardon?

And unless you had no other option ot places to pray, I'm sorry to say, you have not done the right thing.

Sorry I dont live in Pakistan where there are 101 rules to praying instead of just doing wudhu and praying!

Exactly! We should not be afraid to say we are Muslims if someone asks us.

Hence I am also not afraid to pray

But here.... 90% of people don't give a damn.
They would never ask, even if they did give a damn.
So to impose that identity of yours upon bystanders is wrong.

Explain how praying in the corner is imposing something on another?
1 min you say they will feel offended and mind the next you say the opposite but you still stand on the imposing when the guy is not grabbing people on the street and imposing!

It would be like flying a flag or wearing a t-shirt that says 'I am Muslim and I am proud'.

Whats wrong with such a shirt? Have you not seen people in Hyde park wearing that? I can show you youtube video of it

Exactly. So they'd never try to go out of their way to attract attention and they should ALL know better than to prefer to do it publicly.

Attention is not what one is seeking...They just start praying..Have you seen Somali people in Europe, its time to pray they will even do it in hallways! They dont care about people but about their prayer...Not saying it is right or wrong but for them they answer only to ALLAH....It is because of them we now have a prayer area in my uni!

No unfortunately I am a mortal being. But I can use what little knowledge I have to deduce the following:
The prayers were made for the video and specifically located for the video, and not out of necessity in order to fulfill their duty as humans to God. The niyat of the namaz is bought directly in to question.

1) sunnah prayer are not a necessity
2) no one but ALLAH knows the niyat!

The intention of the video is clean, they mean well. I already stated so. But there is much error in it also.

How so? Those kids prob grew up in America and that is their society which they have full confidence will not harm them for practicing their religion....And to prove that to others (esp Islamophobes who preach otherwise) they made a video while praying in public...

Take this little example: Here in the UK and London in particular, there's a style of talking called 'Cockney'. I was in a bus on my way somewhere, an Asian woman went to the bus driver and asked for directions, he told her and she thanked him as she was about to leave he replied; 'You're welcome, love.'. Now that lady was not too well acquainted as you could see she was offended at the man calling her 'love'. But his intention was ever so pure, here that word is a polite way of speaking to a woman, it's nothing out of the blue. He meant well, but he ended up offending the lady, who was sane enough not to say anything back or to voice her judgement.

That is a word which cant harm you....If you are offended you lack tolerance of things not until someone touches you...you cant drag one in front of the judge...So you see that is the law..anything within the boundaries is a norm...The bus driver may have offended her but did he realize nope! For him he did his norm....

If I saw these kids making that video, I would think that they're doing it wrong, but would I say anything? Not a chance, the culture and societal norms wouldn't allow me.

Exactly then why are PDF people saying it? Whats their culture and society? When the people in the video who are indirectly involved didnt say anything why are PDF people saying soo much?

Then his heart is in the right place, but the actions need more guidance.

You're once again, missing the point being made.

Anyone whose heart is in the right place and has done nothing to harm others cant need anymore guidance then need be!

Oh I did, I saw this a long time ago, before it was posted here. Stating you're in a state of wudu and actually being in one are worlds apart and stating your intention to make prayer for God, and believing it and and it alone in your heart is another thing.

Again questioning and deciding ones intentions is not up to us!

I had a friend here, of Muslim upbringing, drifted towards agnosticism. He used to come Friday prayer with me still, he used to state his niyat, he did the wudu, he did exactly what you'd expect. But the truth of it I knew alone, he was agnostic at heart. His prayer not accepted and very much so in vain.

An agnostic is one who does believe in a super power because he cant disprove it...
an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively
My fav prof during undergrads was an agnostic...but he gave charity to the church coz he believed they used the money for good purpose!

As for knowing your friend to be agnostic or not at heart...is not for us to judge...like everyone is saying prayer is between the person and God only...others are irrelevant!

Water that understanding down to a pair who film themselves, and commit to prayer with the intention of including it in the video as much as praying itself. And you have someone who even though they may mean well, are wrong in their actions.

He's absolutely right.

Come again? I ddint get what you wrote![/quote]

We have heard of "Brother In Islam" here we have an idiot in Islam.

Really? When you cant reply you jump to go for personal attack?

Sad to know they have people like you in UK too!

Well said.

Back in 2000, on my way to the west coast, I had a stopover in NY. After visiting someone near central park it was Asr time and I hadn't' prayed Zuhar either, so instead of unrolling my prayer mat in the middle of a sidewalk, I walked into central park and in a secluded corner said my prayers, on a plastic sheet. I didn't know where the local masjids were.

A really tall (approx 6ft 6in), well built black guy, saw me, he came over and sat near me. I didn't notice him at that time, but after I had finished my prayers, I saw him, 1st thing that came to my mind was "I'm going to get mugged."

But he smiled at me, and said "people can be very weird, so I thought I'd make sure nobody bothers you. Have a good day."

Thats really awesome!! Great heart!

 

[Hindustani78]

Bystanders should not stand by and make place even more congested, they should keep on walking.

This whole thread is nothing but trolling.

"Quraan duniya ki woh mazloom kitab hey jise samjhey baghair parrha jata hey" Allama Iqbal ( r.a)

Do you think that people of other religions understand their religious books ? Knowledge is given by the Creator to whom he wants.

Somebody should stand in front of him. I did it couple of times when lot of people were doing namaz in public place, felt like they were all worshipping me. Felt awesome for some time.....

Niyyat of the worshiper matters here.

 

[Hindustani78]

Nah, nimaz can be offered in Public, open space......though not like this in the video. If nimaz is private between an individual; and God then why we muslims pray it together in mosque?. Islam discourages praying nimaz in your room or home alone, you have to pray it with others in mosque. If mosque is not available and nimaz might become qaza and you are at park or some other place, then offer it there.

Salah is private affair because each individual have to give his/her account and no one else will asked for the deeds of others. Salah in masjid is like a team work in which all work together and get good results.

 

[queerbait]

OFFTOPIC : Please tell me what is this music, its really beautiful.There is kind of calmness about this music,so any one knows the name of the song,please tell.

 

[nana41]

This whole thread is nothing but trolling.



Do you think that people of other religions understand their religious books ? Knowledge is given by the Creator to whom he wants.

Rind e kharab e hal ko,zahid na chairr tu.......tujh ko parai kia parri,apni nabairr tu.

]

 

[Dubious]

Alfaz o maani main tafawet

huh?

OFFTOPIC : Please tell me what is this music, its really beautiful.There is kind of calmness about this music,so any one knows the name of the song,please tell.

Its a nasheed on giving peace and blessings to the Prophet Muhammad SAW

Here is one with English subtitles

 

[nana41]

This whole thread is nothing but trolling.



Do you think that people of other religions understand their religious books ? Knowledge is given by the Creator to whom he wants

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rind e kharab e haal ko zahid na chairr tu......Tujh ko parrai ki parri apni nabairr tu