Right, apologies for the late reply. Took a while to type up and had other things to attend.
Not talking about this man I already said that is crazy to pray on the taxi..
My question and answers were all in regard to the video which is in OP...
Same goes for the OP's video, the kids meant well, sure, but they clearly don't know the error of their ways.
1) How is it selfish?
2) no one will pray in busy public area, they will pray in an area where they can atleast do sujood no point praying when you are uncomfortable and staring right and left!
3) without attracting attention when you are in public?
4) Intention : ALLAH said no one but HE alone knows the intentions of men
1) It's selfish when compared not to the will of other people only, but mainly I selfish because the Muslim who's duty it is to pray has to do it for the prayer itself for God and not for any other reason. If the public prayer is done where other options are available, and that person is aware of these options then he is being selfish in imposing himself on others, for trying to pass off his personal display as the necessary prayer that is every man's duty.
2) Right, you say that but right here we have some self righteous people, who seem to think very highly of themselves and their religion and aren't afraid to make it public. Clear examples of people who don't agree with point 2 we've both agreed on.
3) Yes, without attracting attention, especially if you know that your prayer may not be seen too kindly by others. And if your purposely attract attention then you are wrong beyond reason.
4) Right, I cannot doubt that the taxi driver only meant to pray and fulfil that which is called upon us. But if that's the case then, the man is incredibly stupid, and no matter his intention inwardly, the fact is what goes on outwardly and in the minds of people around him should make him think twice.
4 Cont) As I said before, the kids seem to mean well, but I ask you, do you think they are aware that using prayer like that in a video, going out of your way to put it on display is a concious decision. If not, then again, they are being incredibly stupid, and inconsiderate. If the thought ever crosses their minds that they are doing this prayer and displaying for reasons other than what the prayer is meant to serve, then their intention is very wrong.
Ok lets look at the video:
1) in public area
Yup, these two guys, I've seen their videos before, they are New Yorkers, and that is central park.
mosques near central park - Google Maps
2) in a corner in a public area or at least away from heavy traffic
'at least' if only that was good enough...
Please watch the video again. They pray in multiple locations, including right in the middle of a pathway where I can see 2-3 people in an angled camera shot. And then again DIRECTLY outside a subway exit, only a few feet from the stairs.
3) the reason for the movie was to attract stares and comments to get a feedback of how people would feel...Guess what the public felt nothing but a bunch of PDF felt complied to reply!
Yes, and maybe their intention was clean, but their actions should not be put away from question, especially since it may not be kindly taken to by others.
Take my word for it, I've been to Europe and the Americas and I've seen it post 9/11. And I've lived among people who are non-Muslims. There are a HUGE number of people that will call that unnecessary, but wont have the guts to call it because they don't want to offend anyone, such is the beauty of some western secular people. And then there are those who might well feel uncomfortable, again they may not chose to air that opinion but I'm being honest with you.
If I saw a Muslim near my area praying like that I would feel that it is out of the ordinary and unnecessary. Now imagine being someone who's non-Muslim, someone who is not used to religion at all, let alone public displays, and rather imposing ones too.
There's the honesty of it, the boys paint a rosy picture, but take it from someone who understands the way things work here and the mindset of the people.
4) Intention again was to see public response and acceptability! Not one reported the police or started scream out of fear or hysteria!
Of course, why would they report the police? Did I not say it was legal?
Again, the beauty of being in this society, everyone keeps to themselves unless the boundaries of the law are crossed, the boundaries of social norms are quietly noted, opinions formed, just because they don't voice them, doesn't mean they don't hold them.
Forgive me, but I will say outright, you are not right in your assessment of people here, you need to live among them to know how they think.
I see a group of inner city youth, using extremely rough language and swearing, profanities etc. All while a group of children walk by, no-one says a word to them. Instead, they form their opinions, take their children elsewhere and quietly move away.
So back to my question: If this was a real case scenario why is it wrong?
You're counting on too much. IF it was real. Which it isn't, it's a pre planned video.
IF it was real, then the person is not a sinner per se, as long as the intention is clear. But their actions are unwelcome and wrong, purely because the environment is not right for such a thing.
The very purpose of the movie was to get feedback of public reaction...1 woman in the movie actually shooed off another man by saying respect the person and tried to draw a line with whatever she was holding! (He was praying in a tent...not sure which traffic wanted to go in the tent)
Others are more open to it than most. Some here feel guilt at some Muslims for all the bad press we receive, some feel it is their duty to reach out, these are the traits of people with hearts of gold.
And there are those people who feel uncomfortable and threatened by it and chose not a utter a word that may offend.
These people also have hearts of gold.
Then there are those who don't welcome such displays and voice their opinion. And they are normal human beings like you and I.
1) In the beginning of the video they said they will do it right with wudhu and try to concentrate..
If I told you to go and find a place to pray, would you prefer to do it somewhere where you could indeed concentrate or would you purposefully put yourself out there?
But the point remains the same, the prayer was performed there not out of need, but in order to a shoot a video, in order to conduct a 'study'.
2) It was a sort of study not a mockery!
On the face of it, if you look a little closer, the prayer is being used other purposes rather than just praying.
3) They didnt force people to come and join and still 2 people (in the video) imitated ...No one got offended ...the guy finished his prayer and asked them what did they feel....If the intention was to make a mockery they would laugh or do it in a busy area!
A mockery, meaning false use, not a comedy show.
And as for people's reactions, read above.
I expected this from one living in Asia but not 1 actually living in the West!
You are very wrong if you think it is acceptable to all here in the west.
Trust me, I've lived here for a very long time now, and I've been around and seen a lot. Enough to know where exactly I stand.
Believe me, if I applied the common Pakistani mentality to these videos. I'd say 'Mashallah, God bless them'.
But living here I know better, and meeting the people I've met, I know better.
I myself have prayed in a public library where people come to look at books but no one shooed me off for my 5mins...
That's because people are considerate.
My friend, THIS IS NOT PAKISTAN! Where if a non-Muslim puts his religion on display, he might might attract unwanted consequences.
Here people are free, and people are not allowed to challenge someone, nor is it the norm. I could have walked past a person praying, thought a great deal bad and not even batted an eye lid, let alone commit something drastic.
My sister has prayed in a jungle during her field trips where animals are wild and her non Muslim friends would guard her never did she ask of it but they willingly do it yet you being a Muslim are saying all this about "civilized" human beings? My friend has prayed in car parks, public parks, beach, aeroplane, car, train, classroom, corner of a library, office...I have seen someone pray on a corner near the street no one laughed or mocked! How could you say its a mockery?
Sigh. Same as above, all this has been addressed, first of all, it's not a mockery in the way you think it is, it's a mockery of the prayer made by you to offend God. Not made by others to offend you. Get that part clear.
And unless you had no other option ot places to pray, I'm sorry to say, you have not done the right thing.
...we are not afraid to pray coz its our right plus like you said its between ALLAH and us and we will answer to ALLAH...
Exactly! We should not be afraid to say we are Muslims if someone asks us.
But here.... 90% of people don't give a damn.
They would never ask, even if they did give a damn.
So to impose that identity of yours upon bystanders is wrong.
It would be like flying a flag or wearing a t-shirt that says 'I am Muslim and I am proud'.
Those who really want to pray don't look at such things, its between them and GOD not the people watching!
Exactly. So they'd never try to go out of their way to attract attention and they should ALL know better than to prefer to do it publicly.
Now you can tell intentions ? Really?
No unfortunately I am a mortal being. But I can use what little knowledge I have to deduce the following:
The prayers were made for the video and specifically located for the video, and not out of necessity in order to fulfill their duty as humans to God. The niyat of the namaz is bought directly in to question.
The intention of the video is clean, they mean well. I already stated so. But there is much error in it also.
Take this little example: Here in the UK and London in particular, there's a style of talking called 'Cockney'. I was in a bus on my way somewhere, an Asian woman went to the bus driver and asked for directions, he told her and she thanked him as she was about to leave he replied; 'You're welcome, love.'. Now that lady was not too well acquainted as you could see she was offended at the man calling her 'love'. But his intention was ever so pure, here that word is a polite way of speaking to a woman, it's nothing out of the blue. He meant well, but he ended up offending the lady, who was sane enough not to say anything back or to voice her judgement.
If I saw these kids making that video, I would think that they're doing it wrong, but would I say anything? Not a chance, the culture and societal norms wouldn't allow me.
What if their heart was to show the world that people are not afraid of us?What if their heart was to show a positive light of the people of America who accept everyone and are not narrow minded?
Then his heart is in the right place, but the actions need more guidance.
You're once again, missing the point being made.
I think you didnt watch the video? They said right in the beginning they will do it in the state of whudu!
Oh I did, I saw this a long time ago, before it was posted here. Stating you're in a state of wudu and actually being in one are worlds apart and stating your intention to make prayer for God, and believing it and and it alone in your heart is another thing.
I had a friend here, of Muslim upbringing, drifted towards agnosticism. He used to come Friday prayer with me still, he used to state his niyat, he did the wudu, he did exactly what you'd expect. But the truth of it I knew alone, he was agnostic at heart. His prayer not accepted and very much so in vain.
Water that understanding down to a pair who film themselves, and commit to prayer with the intention of including it in the video as much as praying itself. And you have someone who even though they may mean well, are wrong in their actions.
How? That is the question I am asking around...Everyone says that and thinks they have done some grand job ...But the actual question is how is praying in public considered a mockery?
He's absolutely right.
