what does the Pak armed forces realiticially need to counter india conventially

[MilSpec]

Hi,

what you Indians don't realize that we are not concerned with your 7 or 10 times----what our concern is to hold you for 72 hours---if we can---then we will smash thru----.

Your navy does not bother us a tad bit-----it is actually the least of our worries----.

See---we also have our version of cold star doctrine----. And our assessment is that we can strike hard and cut off major land area-----but our concern is that is india going to go nuclear----?

In our geographical situation---the cold start doctrine suits our purpose and vision and operation better than yours---.

The thing is that our sole purpose in life is to fight you and conquer you----your sole purpose in life is tomake money----so you cannot keep on with us----.

And again---you money expenditure does not bother us a tad bit----because most of it is wasted----and then there are other issues as well.

Truth be told---how many Indians get up everyday and say we want to destroy and conquer Pakistan---not many---but how about Pakistan----!!!! Think about it---. That is all we think---from dawn till dusk----.

You guys ought to be grateful to your leaders that you got the nucs----otherwise---you would have seen our cold start doctrine as well by now---.

This has to be the post of the day!

Maybe off topic, but please do concentrate on the highlighted word.

 

[Bossman]

Our policies are basically defensive and little bit soft towards Pakistan. Or else we could had solved this Pakistan problem in 1971 itself. Or even in 2008

The real issue is not policy but the cost of any adventure against Pakistan is too high for India. The Indian military and its policy makers are very aware of it and that is why they cannot do anything. The only thing they can do is blow a lot of hot air and the Indian people tend to believe it as the reality. There is always a little help from the Indian media and Bollywood.

 

[thrilainmanila]

I'm gonna put this out, I think pakistan even in its current form may have a chance at defending itself, I don't expect a war to be won outright but to come off better defensively, I think if masses of Indian soldiers are wiped out be it from conventional ICBM etc the indian public would be come massively concerned, and would want the war to end immediately. if Say the shaheen missile loaded with conventional explosives took out an indian base and the casualties were high, the general public may want out.

Hi,

That is a great thread to start-----. In the 73 war---the weakest link of the Egyptians was their air force and because of their air force---actually the lack of it----or poor quality air force---they got the ultimate thrashing---.

So---same is the case with Pakistan air force----it is not our navy---it actually is our air force that is the weakest link in our armor----.

It desperately lags in heavy strike capability---and specially against an enemy with 3 times the military might.

Even in wars of 1965 and 71---Pakistan air force had heavies according to that time and had fighters that were superiorly equipped and pilots better trained----the F86 with the sidewinders---that was a massive plus---. In 71---even though india had the mig21's---their pilots were under trained.

The SA missile umbrella is wonderful to have and is very important----but it has to be complimented by heavy aircraft---because in the 73 war---after the Egyptian army moved out form under the SA missile umbrella----the heavy aircraft of that time---the Phantoms----slaughtered the MIG21's like there was no tomorrow---.

i agree back in the late 60s and throughout the 70s PAF was an excellent airforce i'd go as far as to say probably the best in south east asia. they had mirage III's which at the time rivaled and in someways outperformed the american F-4 phantom and F-5 (which was USAF frontline fighter jet). its almost like imagining PAF having something close to the rafale in todays standards. the PAF also had the mig-19 which was a big deal IMHO it was much better then the hunters IAF had, PAF of today is weak, the fact that the F-16s are regarded as our flagship frontline jet when it should in reality serve as the backbone like the F-86 did is kinda concerning. over the last 20 years nothing has been done, and the imbalance between PAF and IAF has reached a stage where its no even worth measuring anymore. People look at the JF-17 as some kind of savior when in fact it is something which is 20 years too late. the western airforces are moving away from the F-16 even and thinking of replacing them were EF-2000, F-35s and rafales, and our PAF Love story with the F-16 is ongoing 30 years later.

 

[Peshwa]

The real issue is not policy but the cost of any adventure against Pakistan is too high for India. The Indian military and its policy makers are very aware of it and that is why they cannot do anything. The only thing they can do is blow a lot of hot air and the Indian people tend to believe it as the reality. There is always a little help from the Indian media and Bollywood.

The man is right...trying to burn down a house (Pakistan) that's already on fire will only end up burning the arsonist...

Let Pak implode and watch the show from the sidelines...the cost is indeed too high!

I'm gonna put this out, I think pakistan even in its current form may have a chance at defending itself, I don't expect a war to be won outright but to come off better defensively, I think if masses of Indian soldiers are wiped out be it from conventional ICBM etc the indian public would be come massively concerned, and would want the war to end immediately. if Say the shaheen missile loaded with conventional explosives took out an indian base and the casualties were high, the general public may want out.
.

Funny thing here is that the Pakistanis assume that the reaction of the indian public would be docile to such a move from Pak, but somehow think we are like rabid dogs out to destroy Pakistan on any given day otherwise...

Whats funnier is that they believe the Pakistani public would be ok with the use of nukes even at the cost of the entire pakistani nation being decimated in mutual destruction..LOL!

Suicidal mentality or does the house cat think its a lion? LOL

 

[Humble Analyst]

It seems to be a favourite trick on PDF; to insist for links for something rudimentary. Make the other person give an illustrative example, and then dismiss it by trying to poke holes in it and thereby assailing theie position. Once the imaginary holes have been poked, one is free to thereby declare "victory" for the stated position. The focus is on making the other person expend their energy and then use the power of bland denial and asking for further evidence in support of the initial evidence to wear them down.

Don't play these tricks on me - Google "Pakistan" + "threatens nuclear war" and see what you come up with. And then read it. And then get back to me with more cleverness.

Here we go, another Google intellectual inspiration. Pakistan is fighting against Indian aggression and telling them to stop in case we may be pushed to the point where it may result in Nuclear exchange. Use you energy to stop Indians instead of burning keyboard and be a Google champ.

It seems to be a favourite trick on PDF; to insist for links for something rudimentary. Make the other person give an illustrative example, and then dismiss it by trying to poke holes in it and thereby assailing theie position. Once the imaginary holes have been poked, one is free to thereby declare "victory" for the stated position. The focus is on making the other person expend their energy and then use the power of bland denial and asking for further evidence in support of the initial evidence to wear them down.

Don't play these tricks on me - Google "Pakistan" + "threatens nuclear war" and see what you come up with. And then read it. And then get back to me with more cleverness.

Are you sure you are displaying correct flags?

 

[rocket booster]

our leaders are still complaining about so called Pak Occupied Kashmir, which is 40% of Kashmir Baltistan, which was captured in 1948 by Pakistan. If India had won the war in 1965, you would be drinking chota pegs in Lahore right now. You could not do anything after the Parliament attack or the Mumbai attack or Kargil or any other time when your leaders and military were blowing hot air. Some of the Indian hills taken over by Pakistan during Kargil are still under its control. Even right now with the clashes on the border your leaders were talking about teaching Pakistan a lesson, go check with BSF, your regular army and the people living on the border who was thought a lesson.

Last time I heard it was pakistani leaders and people who were crying and begging in front of US, UN and everywhere. So tell me who is crying.
Yes, its pakistan, which is good in it.
And learn that your Kashmir is not called real kahmir the real kashmir is with us which is called as Kashmir valley and we still have rivers under us.
Don't worry we won 65 that's why we celebrate it as a victory day in India not any celebration day like Pakistan. You need to learn something neutral to find it out not mullah chemistry or history told in madarssahs. The higher hills and peak captured back from Pakistan is with us now and most of them were captured in 65 and 99 kargil. But how can you learn these things when you are getting education from madarssahs. Remember siachen glacier!
And about Mumbai attacks well if we go by your logic then 55,000 to 1lakh people which you lost in terrorist attack should be our work didn't it? Also that Peshawar attack. So don't worry we have given you your answer back as always.
Now if you want another war then you can start it. If not then live with it that Kashmir will remain ours.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You are spot on. This is very accurate. Pakistanis keep telling this to Indians but Indian leaders never believe it.

They should.

Excellent and truthful assessment.



Yes absolutely true. I am now your confirmed fan Sir.

At the end of the day, this is the residual fear that even a liberal Indian has in dealing with Pakistanis. Blunt, truthful ones included. All their positions finally reduce to this definitive one. It seems to be the non-negotiable position of superiority due to religious affiliation which has to be achieved however long it takes, and at the cost of years of waiting idly, seemingly in peaceful postures and with peaceful thoughts, until the moment to strike arrives.

Even today, except for a handful of sincere and committed people, it is difficult to remember prominent Pakistani posters having expressed contrition or regret for Mumbai 26/11. That is significant and it registers. Deep inside, and with some dismay and initial rejection of the purport of the gesture not made, but it registers.

Here we go, another Google intellectual inspiration. Pakistan is fighting against Indian aggression and telling them to stop in case we may be pushed to the point where it may result in Nuclear exchange. Use you energy to stop Indians instead of burning keyboard and be a Google champ.


Are you sure you are displaying correct flags?

Presumably the next step will be to invite him to go to India, if he likes them so much.

Nihil novi sub sole.

Last time I heard it was pakistani leaders and people who were crying and begging in front of US, UN and everywhere. So tell me who is crying.
Yes, its pakistan, which is good in it.
And learn that your Kashmir is not called real kahmir the real kashmir is with us which is called as Kashmir valley and we still have rivers under us.
Don't worry we won 65 that's why we celebrate it as a victory day in India not any celebration day like Pakistan. You need to learn something neutral to find it out not mullah chemistry or history told in madarssahs. The higher hills and peak captured back from Pakistan is with us now and most of them were captured in 65 and 99 kargil. But how can you learn these things when you are getting education from madarssahs. Remember siachen glacier!
And about Mumbai attacks well if we go by your logic then 55,000 to 1lakh people which you lost in terrorist attack should be our work didn't it? Also that Peshawar attack. So don't worry we have given you your answer back as always.
Now if you want another war then you can start it. If not then live with it that Kashmir will remain ours.

Unpleasant way of putting it. Sometimes, however, one wonders if any other way of putting it actually makes an impression.

 

[rocket booster]

Unpleasant way of putting it. Sometimes, however, one wonders if any other way of putting it actually makes an impression.

Sir this is the only way because these people only understand killings and we have to tell them where they stand. Look at the post glorifying Mumbai attack and kargil. When these people come out so openly about their programmes then they complaint about our interference in their country(if present).

 

[$@rJen]

Your leaders are still complaining about so called Pak Occupied Kashmir, which is 40% of Kashmir Baltistan, which was captured in 1948 by Pakistan. If India had won the war in 1965, you would be drinking chota pegs in Lahore right now. You could not do anything after the Parliament attack or the Mumbai attack or Kargil or any other time when your leaders and military were blowing hot air. Some of the Indian hills taken over by Pakistan during Kargil are still under its control. Even right now with the clashes on the border your leaders were talking about teaching Pakistan a lesson, go check with BSF, your regular army and the people living on the border who was thought a lesson.

Wow... Last time i Checked It was the Pakistanis who are runing from UN,US to China on the Kashmir Issue, we only Bring P0K Whenever Pakistan bring Kashmir Issue...

You people don't get the picture do you?? In 65 the Aim was to attack the Lahore to ease the pressure on Kashmir not to invade Lahore and keep it. Pakistan Diverted the troops to lahore for the counter attack by the time IA was asked to withdraw due to the sucess in easing the pressure in Kashmir. In 65 Pakistan Invaded India Not the other way around Kid. in 71 is when we invaded East pakistan and we've successsfully did so.

Like i said earlier if we go and attack pakistan when everytime pakistani terrorists target the civilians in India then there'll be nothing economy left in India. we've a goal in our life unlike Pakistan who has nothing to loose. you took one or two peak... not a big issue..and you'll should be proud of your military capturing the peaks when no Indian soldiers were there.(All hail PA ), so what can i say about the 13,00Km lands we graped in western sectors during the 71 war!! and gave back after making Pakistan to sign the Shimala Agreement. And we forced Pakistan to give us certain strategic Peaks.

Ha aha aha kid see even during the crossed border attack we've given a bloody hit that your commanders had to hide the death of the numbers of soilders killed. ys Indian politicians talk alot and so does the Pakistani Politicians who warmonger every now on then with nukes

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sir this is the only way because these people only understand killings and we have to tell them where they stand. Look at the post glorifying Mumbai attack and kargil. When these people come out so openly about their programmes then they complaint about our interference in their country(if present).

Well, that is more or less what I was trying to say!

 

[Ifteqar Aisan]

When was Nawaz Sharif accused of genocide or communal massacre of thousands of people belonging to a different ethnic or religious group?

You speak as if we were well disposed against them when the previous, non-genocidal, non-maniacal, secular dispensation was in power. ISI engineered a heinous attack on their commercial capital when the previous dispensation was in power. As usual, we denied our role, and that was first time that I am aware we threatened them with nukes. Face it, we hate them and our hatred has proven to be implacable so far.

They don't run foreign policy in Pakistan either, but their words absolutely carry weight given their prominence in political hierarchy and the media treats them as such and in turn poisons the minds of the populace by highlighting and cheering said party members on. The Indian politicians and media have done a fantastic job of spewing hateful poison and propaganda since the BJP's ascent to power.

It seems the words of sundry other people like Hafeez Saeed, Zaki-ur Laqwi, Haqqani, etc. also carry a lot of weight in Pakistan. They are wanted criminals, and we should look at our own actions of allowing thugs like them a public platform instead of pointing fingers. In your world they might be "just normal citizens" of Pakistan. But if these are our model citizens then we should re-look at what we have become.

Yet another outright distortion, in fact, given that I 'copy pasted' the Defence Minister's statement in my previous post, your comment is an outright lie - The statement is clear - Pakistan will consider nuclear weapons in the face of a military attack from India that threatens her survival, and the statement was in response to a plethora of unprovoked ceasefire violations by the Indian military and hateful and threatening rants by members of the Indian government and the ruling party.

They say we violate ceasefire line unprovoked, we say they do it. Only one party complains of ceasefire violations to UNMOGIP to keep the Kashmir issue alive, which is Pakistan. India, to my knowledge, has not complained about ceasefire violations to UNMOGIP as part of a policy to not involve UN monitoring for decades now. Only one party has anything to gain by ceasefire violations, and that is Pakistan. Unilateral ceasefire violations would run counter to India's policy on not Internationalizing the Kashmir issue, whereas they would be perfectly convenient to our policy of making it one. Connect the dotted lines for the rest.

Here we go, another Google intellectual inspiration. Pakistan is fighting against Indian aggression and telling them to stop in case we may be pushed to the point where it may result in Nuclear exchange. Use you energy to stop Indians instead of burning keyboard and be a Google champ.

I have addressed your concerns in the other conversation. Kindly look at it.

Are you sure you are displaying correct flags?

Yes but I am slightly crooked. Even as a practicing advocate I could never learn the difficult task of defending the indefensible and always chose to side with what I saw as the correct position instead. It didn't make me popular, though.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You speak as if we were well disposed against them when the previous, non-genocidal, non-maniacal, secular dispensation was in power. ISI engineered a heinous attack on their commercial capital when the previous dispensation was in power. As usual, we denied our role, and that was first time that I am aware we threatened them with nukes. Face it, we hate them and our hatred has proven to be implacable so far.



It seems the words of sundry other people like Hafeez Saeed, Zaki-ur Laqwi, Haqqani, etc. also carry a lot of weight in Pakistan. They are wanted criminals, and we should look at our own actions of allowing thugs like them a public platform instead of pointing fingers. In your world they might be "just normal citizens" of Pakistan. But if these are our model citizens then we should re-look at what we have become.



They say we violate ceasefire line unprovoked, we say they do it. Only one party complains of ceasefire violations to UNMOGIP to keep the Kashmir issue alive, which is Pakistan. India, to my knowledge, has not complained about ceasefire violations to UNMOGIP as part of a policy to not involve UN monitoring for decades now. Only one party has anything to gain by ceasefire violations, and that is Pakistan. Unilateral ceasefire violations would run counter to India's policy on not Internationalizing the Kashmir issue, whereas they would be perfectly convenient to our policy of making it one. Connect the dotted lines for the rest.



I have addressed your concerns in the other conversation. Kindly look at it.



Yes but I am slightly crooked. Even as a practicing advocate I could never learn the difficult task of defending the indefensible and always chose to side with what I saw as the correct position instead. It didn't make me popular, though.

As a teacher at a law university, you will readily understand that my affiliation is pre-determined.

Thank you for your very honest post and for the devastating frankness.

I have a favour to ask.

If ever you find anything faulty or meretricious in any post of mine, I should be glad to be told so.

 

[illusion8]

You speak as if we were well disposed against them when the previous, non-genocidal, non-maniacal, secular dispensation was in power. ISI engineered a heinous attack on their commercial capital when the previous dispensation was in power. As usual, we denied our role, and that was first time that I am aware we threatened them with nukes. Face it, we hate them and our hatred has proven to be implacable so far.



It seems the words of sundry other people like Hafeez Saeed, Zaki-ur Laqwi, Haqqani, etc. also carry a lot of weight in Pakistan. They are wanted criminals, and we should look at our own actions of allowing thugs like them a public platform instead of pointing fingers. In your world they might be "just normal citizens" of Pakistan. But if these are our model citizens then we should re-look at what we have become.



They say we violate ceasefire line unprovoked, we say they do it. Only one party complains of ceasefire violations to UNMOGIP to keep the Kashmir issue alive, which is Pakistan. India, to my knowledge, has not complained about ceasefire violations to UNMOGIP as part of a policy to not involve UN monitoring for decades now. Only one party has anything to gain by ceasefire violations, and that is Pakistan. Unilateral ceasefire violations would run counter to India's policy on not Internationalizing the Kashmir issue, whereas they would be perfectly convenient to our policy of making it one. Connect the dotted lines for the rest.



I have addressed your concerns in the other conversation. Kindly look at it.



Yes but I am slightly crooked. Even as a practicing advocate I could never learn the difficult task of defending the indefensible and always chose to side with what I saw as the correct position instead. It didn't make me popular, though.

I too doubt one of your flag..only for the reason that I haven't come across a honest, articulate Pakistani poster like you on pdf yet.

 

[Ifteqar Aisan]

As a teacher at a law university, you will readily understand that my affiliation is pre-determined.

Thank you for your very honest post and for the devastating frankness.

I have a favour to ask.

If ever you find anything faulty or meretricious in any post of mine, I should be glad to be told so.

Glad to make your acquaintance. And I will keep in mind your suggestion about pointing out issues with certain posts. You should do the same with mine. That's how we all learn the skill of dialogue, don't we?

 

[Stag112]

Hi,

what you Indians don't realize that we are not concerned with your 7 or 10 times----what our concern is to hold you for 72 hours---if we can---then we will smash thru----.

Your navy does not bother us a tad bit-----it is actually the least of our worries----.

See---we also have our version of cold star doctrine----. And our assessment is that we can strike hard and cut off major land area-----but our concern is that is india going to go nuclear----?

In our geographical situation---the cold start doctrine suits our purpose and vision and operation better than yours---.

The thing is that our sole purpose in life is to fight you and conquer you----your sole purpose in life is tomake money----so you cannot keep on with us----.

And again---you money expenditure does not bother us a tad bit----because most of it is wasted----and then there are other issues as well.

Truth be told---how many Indians get up everyday and say we want to destroy and conquer Pakistan---not many---but how about Pakistan----!!!! Think about it---. That is all we think---from dawn till dusk----.

You guys ought to be grateful to your leaders that you got the nucs----otherwise---you would have seen our cold start doctrine as well by now---.

Utopian forum!!!

We accuse you of war-mongering - you boast of your war mongering!
We accuse you of obsession and hatred of us, you boast of your obsession and hatred of us!

See everybody happy!

Except let me tell you one little secret. Yes we do not obsess over Pakistan, but we do obsess over India. We do not think of Pakistan from day to dusk, but we do of India. We may not be a war mongering punkish pariah state, but we are a giant upcoming power with international standing that is committed to defending our interests at all costs. We may not be a terrorist state of angry religious bigots, but we are a young nation of nationalists, and we will smash any aggressor with everything we have, and we have a lot more than a you ever would.

So all your hyperbole and bombastic ranting aside, all you managed to say was that you are a failed state at multiple levels that seeks war and enemy just to stay united and to keep her gullible masses such as yourself and those who thanked that post in line.