what does the Pak armed forces realiticially need to counter india conventially

[Ifteqar Aisan]

I too doubt one of your flag..only for the reason that I haven't come across a honest, articulate Pakistani poster like you on pdf yet.

But you will be amazed at how vibrant the intellectual scene in Pakistan really is. At least a part of the public discourse in Pakistan is thankfully not hegemonized by jargon-spewing intellectuals and is left to shrewd, matter-of-fact judgement. In matters of geo-politics and human rights, Pakistan has many astute observers such as Aisha Siddiqua, Najam Sethi, Asma Jahangir, Pervez Hoodbhoy, etc. They are all refreshingly honest and brave - many have faced jail and persecution.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I too doubt one of your flag..only for the reason that I haven't come across a honest, articulate Pakistani poster like you on pdf yet.

Don't question it, enjoy it. Some idiot on our side will do something really maddening, and we would have lost him - like so many others.

Utopian forum!!!

We accuse you of war-mongering - you boast of your war mongering!
We accuse you of obsession and hatred of us, you boast of your obsession and hatred of us!

See everybody happy!

Except let me tell you one little secret. Yes we do not obsess over Pakistan, but we do obsess over India. We do not think of Pakistan from day to dusk, but we do of India. We may not be a war mongering punkish pariah state, but we are a giant upcoming power with international standing that is committed to defending our interests at all costs. We may not be a terrorist state of angry religious bigots, but we are a young nation of nationalists, and we will smash any aggressor with everything we have, and we have a lot more than a failed punk ever would.

So all your hyperbole and bombastic ranting aside, all you managed to say was that you are a failed state at multiple levels that seeks war and enemy just to stay united and to keep her gullible masses such as yourself and those who thanked that post in line.

Some of the words and phrases you used were unkind and also uncalled for, and there is no lack of decent, well-bred Pakistanis - they are just like us, after all - but in general, I have to say I agree broadly, at a conceptual level, nothing narrower.

Utopian forum!!!

We accuse you of war-mongering - you boast of your war mongering!
We accuse you of obsession and hatred of us, you boast of your obsession and hatred of us!

See everybody happy!

Except let me tell you one little secret. Yes we do not obsess over Pakistan, but we do obsess over India. We do not think of Pakistan from day to dusk, but we do of India. We may not be a war mongering punkish pariah state, but we are a giant upcoming power with international standing that is committed to defending our interests at all costs. We may not be a terrorist state of angry religious bigots, but we are a young nation of nationalists, and we will smash any aggressor with everything we have, and we have a lot more than a failed punk ever would.

So all your hyperbole and bombastic ranting aside, all you managed to say was that you are a failed state at multiple levels that seeks war and enemy just to stay united and to keep her gullible masses such as yourself and those who thanked that post in line.

I think they are a state that have just managed to turn the corner.

 

[illusion8]

India had a poor Pakistan Policy back in 65, similarly had a poor policy during kargil and continues to do so today. So I don't see any change in belligerence, Most of political leadership has no understanding of dynamics of Pakistan's India policy.

Most don't. .

If they actually get down to understanding "pakistan's" policy - Indian policy makers will be sanctioning hundreds more nukes and coming up with a samson theory of their own to wipe out most of the sunni salafi world if threatened..its more of a sunni vs Hindu policy that Pakistan tries to sell to its masses and to other Co sunni countries.

But you will be amazed at how vibrant the intellectual scene in Pakistan really is. At least a part of the public discourse in Pakistan is thankfully not hegemonized by jargon-spewing intellectuals and is left to shrewd, matter-of-fact judgement. In matters of geo-politics and human rights, Pakistan has many astute observers such as Aisha Siddiqua, Najam Sethi, Asma Jahangir, Pervez Hoodbhoy, etc. They are all refreshingly honest and brave - many have faced jail and persecution.

None of them are on pdf unfortunately. .so haven't been able to communicate with them.

 

[Gallium Nitride]

woww!!!!!!!!!!

What a beautiful aircraft

 

[Manidabest]

You are not obsessed with Pakistan?? ohh what was the bottom line of BJP's chief Amit Shah in election campaign of Bihar??? ""If by any chance the BJP is defeated in these elections, crackers will be burst in celebration in Pakistan. Would you like that to happen?" asked Shah. The crowd roared back, "No! ...oh did i mention saffron terror is brewing in india??? a rising power with more than 600 million ppl below poverty line??? ohhh u r daydreaming

 

[MilSpec]

@Ifteqar Aisan Welcome to the forum. Very refreshing to see this quality of narrative.

 

[Stag112]

Don't question it, enjoy it. Some idiot on our side will do something really maddening, and we would have lost him - like so many others.


Some of the words and phrases you used were unkind and also uncalled for, and there is no lack of decent, well-bred Pakistanis - they are just like us, after all - but in general, I have to say I agree broadly, at a conceptual level, nothing narrower.



I think they are a state that have just managed to turn the corner.

I'm not proud of the language, (I've edited it a little now), but there is tendency in Pakistanis on the forum, even senior ones, admins and TTs included, to use bombastic big talk as some kind of an argument, as they actually believe in their religious , racial superiority. I was only replying in the same tone.

Your enemy does make you a little like him, after all.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Most don't. .

If they actually get down to understanding "pakistan's" policy - Indian policy makers will be sanctioning hundreds more nukes and coming up with a samson theory of their own to wipe out most of the sunni salafi world if threatened..its more of a sunni vs Hindu policy that Pakistan tries to sell to its masses and to other Co sunni countries.



None of them are on pdf unfortunately. .so haven't been able to communicate with them.

No, but do read them outside. They are an amazing bunch of people.

 

[Psychic]

@Joe Shearer any dumb@ss Pakistan bashing post deserves a positive, doesn't it?

Remember last six or seven years? It is only now that our army cheif has shown verbal aggressiveness, in the past, Kiyani did not even bother to respond verbally to Indian war hysteria. Kindly take a look at war-mongers who hold power in India as well.

But you will be amazed at how vibrant the intellectual scene in Pakistan really is. At least a part of the public discourse in Pakistan is thankfully not hegemonized by jargon-spewing intellectuals and is left to shrewd, matter-of-fact judgement. In matters of geo-politics and human rights, Pakistan has many astute observers such as Aisha Siddiqua, Najam Sethi, Asma Jahangir, Pervez Hoodbhoy, etc. They are all refreshingly honest and brave - many have faced jail and persecution.

@WebMaster @Horus I demand an ip check. Even if he is a Pakistani, he belongs to a rare delusional breed.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I'm not proud of the language, (I've edited it a little now), but there is tendency in Pakistanis on the forum, even senior ones, admins and TTs included, to use bombastic big talk as some kind of an argument, as they actually believe in their religious , racial superiority. I was only replying in the same tone.

Your enemy does make you a little like him, after all.

Good, good. I'll share a secret with you. I tend to lose my temper; it goes with age and hypertension, and living alone in a camp-like atmosphere. So sometimes I get back after a night's rest, and the appalling things I wrote the previous day leap out of the page at me.

Not pleasant. So I know the feeling, just in case you were wondering.

As for the rest, you might find this useful:

Suaviter in modo, fortiter in re.

 

[Ind4Ever]

If you calculate the cost of letting pakistan to harm India will be more if you compare to taking offensive position to put an end to it.

Basic idea of a Nation : Economy is for welfare of people. True. But it is and it must be for having greater military power to go to war at any given time. India is not college football team. It's a civilization. Oldest civilization known to mankind. One day we will make a right call. Reason is abundant. Just a right time is needed. Once we developed our ability to minimise the cost of war as you mentioned. No one can save our enemies. It's an human instinct to hit back. But since we are Indians our retaliation will be one of a kind and very well thought strategy.

The real issue is not policy but the cost of any adventure against Pakistan is too high for India. The Indian military and its policy makers are very aware of it and that is why they cannot do anything. The only thing they can do is blow a lot of hot air and the Indian people tend to believe it as the reality. There is always a little help from the Indian media and Bollywood.

 

[Joe Shearer]

What on earth are you going on about? And why on earth are you telling me what to do?

@Joe Shearer any dumb@ss Pakistan bashing post deserves a positive, doesn't it?

Remember last six or seven years? It is only now that our army cheif has shown verbal aggressiveness, in the past, Kiyani did not even bother to respond verbally to Indian war hysteria. Kindly take a look at war-mongers who hold power in India as well.


@WebMaster @Horus I demand an ip check. Even if he is a Pakistani, he belongs to a rare delusional breed.

 

[Ind4Ever]

You speak as if we were well disposed against them when the previous, non-genocidal, non-maniacal, secular dispensation was in power. ISI engineered a heinous attack on their commercial capital when the previous dispensation was in power. As usual, we denied our role, and that was first time that I am aware we threatened them with nukes. Face it, we hate them and our hatred has proven to be implacable so far.



It seems the words of sundry other people like Hafeez Saeed, Zaki-ur Laqwi, Haqqani, etc. also carry a lot of weight in Pakistan. They are wanted criminals, and we should look at our own actions of allowing thugs like them a public platform instead of pointing fingers. In your world they might be "just normal citizens" of Pakistan. But if these are our model citizens then we should re-look at what we have become.



They say we violate ceasefire line unprovoked, we say they do it. Only one party complains of ceasefire violations to UNMOGIP to keep the Kashmir issue alive, which is Pakistan. India, to my knowledge, has not complained about ceasefire violations to UNMOGIP as part of a policy to not involve UN monitoring for decades now. Only one party has anything to gain by ceasefire violations, and that is Pakistan. Unilateral ceasefire violations would run counter to India's policy on not Internationalizing the Kashmir issue, whereas they would be perfectly convenient to our policy of making it one. Connect the dotted lines for the rest.



I have addressed your concerns in the other conversation. Kindly look at it.



Yes but I am slightly crooked. Even as a practicing advocate I could never learn the difficult task of defending the indefensible and always chose to side with what I saw as the correct position instead. It didn't make me popular, though.

What a traitor you turned out to be . When this thought of yours prevails with many officials in Pakistan establishment then Good times ahead for Pakistan for sure and prosperity and dignity of ur people. Am saying it for very long time on here for many years now. All time am confronted with likes of Agnostic Muslim and others.

Sometimes I feel that Peace is no where near in Pakistan Radar at all. Moves are been made so eneimity with India exist so people so blindly fall in line with out questioning Top brace who failed terribly at every level.

Hope Kashmir is resolved peacefully. Pakistan should come forward and hand over P O K to India as per 1947 agreement. And focus on becoming a economic super power rather than fragile state with loose nuclear weapons. One small mistakes may change a nation's history.

 

[Maarkhoor]

We may not be a war mongering punkish pariah state, but we are a giant upcoming power with international standing that is committed to defending our interests at all costs. We may not be a terrorist state of angry religious bigots, but we are a young nation of nationalists, and we will smash any aggressor with everything we have, and we have a lot more than a you ever would.

Yes you and the full team of saffron chadizz are young nationalists who support and killed beef eaters, who killed old woman for entering temple, who support and burn alive young dalit children. Who prefer cow protection over their woman. very well deserve post for more + ratings.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Well this is one of the more disturbing posts I've encountered on PDF so I thought I would dissect it point by point:

what you Indians don't realize that we are not concerned with your 7 or 10 times----what our concern is to hold you for 72 hours---if we can---then we will smash thru----.

72 hours is an incredibly long time in modern day warfare. Within 72 hours the IAF could quite easily have ensured air supremacy over the majority of Pakistan allowing their CAS assets to prosecute your ground units with impunity.

Your navy does not bother us a tad bit-----it is actually the least of our worries----.

An entirely unqualified comment that is illogical to say the least. The disparity between the respective navies is perhaps the most considerable of any of the 3 wings and once your navy is pulverised there is little that can stop a) an economic blockade of your most prosperous city (what kind of reserves does Pakistan hold at any one time?) and b) the targeting of the aforementioned city by IN and IAF aircraft.

See---we also have our version of cold star doctrine----. And our assessment is that we can strike hard and cut off major land area-----but our concern is that is india going to go nuclear----?

India going nuclear is a pretty stupid thing to be fearful of given it has an officially stated NFU policy. India would only "go nuclear" IF attacked by nuclear weapons. Your fear should be of your leaders unilaterally escalating any conflict to this level and/or rogue elements in your state initiating such a confrontation by getting their hands on one of your (growing) stockpile.

The thing is that our sole purpose in life is to fight you and conquer you----your sole purpose in life is tomake money----so you cannot keep on with us----.

You make out that this is somehow a weakness. "To make money" in this region means escaping abject poverty and feeding your family- this is hardly the most devious or nefarious of goals. I don't believe you would honestly wish your nation to remain poverty stricken forever.

And anyone who has fantasies of "conquering" a sovereign nation of the stature of India is living in some unfathomable alternate reality.

And again---you money expenditure does not bother us a tad bit----because most of it is wasted----and then there are other issues as well.

Wasted or not it is but 1.78% of GDP- well below the amount India spends on infrastructure, healthcare, education etc.

Truth be told---how many Indians get up everyday and say we want to destroy and conquer Pakistan---not many---but how about Pakistan----!!!! Think about it---. That is all we think---from dawn till dusk----.

I do not believe this to be the case, you are painting Pakistan as a nation of fanatics and if is the case you will remain in the dirt.

You guys ought to be grateful to your leaders that you got the nucs----otherwise---you would have seen our cold start doctrine as well by now---.

The same could be said for your nation in reverse. Your assertion actually does not hold much water as India's conventional superiority over Pakistan's military is vast so it is Pakistan that is being shielded thanks to their nuclear umbrella- not so much vice versa.