Western Radar/Grifo-E selected for JF-17?

[StormBreaker]

In my humble opinion, you should first find out who ma'am Messiach is before questioning her source.
You are new to the forum, the onus is on you to do a little digging.

Not really joking, I know Jf-17 might be a bad example but honestly, why can't we have open-source weapons systems?
I personally see a huge future with open-source weapons. Especially, as drone and 3D-printing technology becomes more advanced and widespread.
There are people who design handguns with 3D plastics in mind so why not drones and other weapon systems?
The Engineering brain is there but the manufacturing capability is not widespread because it requires huge capital.

Think about it, a future with AI building weapons in your barn. You can design a drone that throws pepper spray at your annoying neighbors while they have family members over for a bbq.

Isn't that a world you would like to live in?

How are you by any case, helping this thread ‘Western Radar For JF-17’, do your arguments match with the title? Yes? Then go on. No? Then kindly make a dedicated 3D printing thread.
Regards

 

[Akh1112]

How capable Grafo-E is compared to Chinese and other western AESA radar options for JFT?

they are pretty much on par, the Grifo brings a more features alongside the GaN TRM's which are more efficient, otherwise, its a reasonably level playing field.

 

[M.Bison]

How are you by any case, helping this thread ‘Western Radar For JF-17’, do your arguments match with the title? Yes? Then go on. No? Then kindly make a dedicated 3D printing thread.
Regards

You are right man.. I was just thinking about how there would be two different radars for the JF-17 one export and one domestic. Then my brain just went haywire and I started to think.. and think and then think some more.

I thought, why not create a jet with the bare bone minimums and let the import nation build their own jet around let's say an airframe.

Either way, I went down the rabbit hole my man and that hole is not related to this hole.

 

[Basel]

they are pretty much on par, the Grifo brings a more features alongside the GaN TRM's which are more efficient, otherwise, its a reasonably level playing field.

But I think Grifo-E is inferior to Raven-05 or Vixen 1000e

 

[Ultima Thule]

Of course not, well, probably not, i would assume we would have European weapons, originally when the JF-17 was being designed, a french radar was selected, at that time, the MBDA Mica was being intergrated. I dont see why we couldnt have such a solution? as i said though, i am only speculating and wanted other peoples opinions.

Forget the Past, its history are you talking about RDY-3, and then French is willing to gives us there top notch tech and also western equipment were/are very expensive and we have no $$$$$ currently, they are selling RAFALE to India and last IAF Mirage 2000 have a Mica for in their arsenal, they knew the weakness and advantages of Mica

But the Grifo was still on the table as reported by Alan Warnes, Leonardo has an Islamabad office and has been a prominent visitor to IDEAS, also, are they still not working with us on burraq/falco?

Alan warnes is not a spoke person of PAF he could be wrong, he just guessing so does Royal Royce/Boeing and other international defense offices in Islamabad/Karachi/Lahore, so thinks same for those companies too, this prove nothing that leonardo is working at PAC, and for your information Burraq is Chinese UCAV there is no way that leonardo working on Burraq may be for falco but at minor level (repair/maintenance/logistic)

 

[YeBeWarned]

With Pl-15 is on the horizon and some rumors based on we already have them, i doubt PAF will be looking at a non Chinese AESA option, but I will wait rather than merely running after speculations .

 

[StormBreaker]

You are right man.. I was just thinking about how there would be two different radars for the JF-17 one export and one domestic. Then my brain just went haywire and I started to think.. and think and then think some more.

I thought, why not create a jet with the bare bone minimums and let the import nation build their own jet around let's say an airframe.

Either way, I went down the rabbit hole my man and that hole is not related to this hole.

It would be a headache for PAC to make a thunder based on extremely diverse config, be-spoke for customer as well as development code will increase

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I don't think PAC would invest in making an existing radar model.

Rather, they'll get TRMs and other critical parts from overseas, and then develop a custom radar using those parts. It wouldn't be indigenous, but at least we'll manage the source codes and configure it to our choosing.

So, the question should be where are we getting those critical parts from? Be it China or Europe, I would much prefer GaN TRMs instead of GaA ones. If we get GaN, then there's no need to worry about whether it's Grifo-E, KLJ-7A, LKF601E, or whatever. That's the key.

 

[BATMAN]

Grifo-E is NOT selected, nor is it compatible with SD-10A/ pl-15.

Yes but there may be potential customers who don't want Chinese armaments and PAF could be one customer!

I have raised this issue of self production of avionics long time ago. I did have reservation on using off the shelf avionics.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/avionics-for-thunder-western-or-chinese.31901/

 

[Myth_buster_1]

So, im sure you have all seen the poster at the PAC Kamra stand at the Dubai Airshow. On the poster, they mention they produce AESA radars, the photo of the radar is interesting. It looks nothing like either of the Chinese Radars for the JF-17 and actually looks more like a Grifo-E(antenna wise). What do you think?

poster:
View attachment 592006

now, look at the antenna on the radar.


compare it with this, the LKF601E.
View attachment 592007

Here is the KLJ-7A

View attachment 592008

This is the model of the KLJ-7A with the side arrays, the mechanically steered one has a similar antenna too.

Compare all of these with the Grifo-E on a Leonardo M346.
View attachment 592009

Most likely an error then anything else.

Why would they integrate western radar with super long range Chinese AAM? Unless PAF is also getting Meteors.

 

[The Eagle]

I don't think PAC would invest in making an existing radar model.

Rather, they'll get TRMs and other critical parts from overseas, and then develop a custom radar using those parts. It wouldn't be indigenous, but at least we'll manage the source codes and configure it to our choosing.

So, the question should be where are we getting those critical parts from? Be it China or Europe, I would much prefer GaN TRMs instead of GaA ones. If we get GaN, then there's no need to worry about whether it's Grifo-E, KLJ-7A, LKF601E, or whatever. That's the key.

Our esteemed friends needs to remember that self reliance & in-house solution isn't new nor a sudden reaction. Back in days, since 2010, its been on card and PAC remained committed to build Radar by our own with help of China, for many reasons that one can pen down.... Huge step towards independence, self reliance, weapon integration freedom for house & foreign customers and many more plausible reasons that we have Radar Manufacturing facility at PAC.

So, Grifo-E isn't the runner and doesn't seems to be the case at all except that our friend here matched antenna shape etc. One thing is for sure that we are developing AESA by our own for our own use and so can supplement the thought that foreign customers may want western weapons that OEMs may not feel reluctant due to China having product code etc issue.

 

[ARMalik]

Well, another day another rumor thread but one thing is for sure, you guys are Hyper-enthusiastic about JF-17. But thinking logically, Grifo is not going to give PAF any advantage as far as strategic weapons integration is concerned unless complete ToT is given to PAF which seems highly unlikely at this stage although not improbable. So the only reason Grifo or Western option would be considered is for a Foreign customer.

 

[Akh1112]

I don't think PAC would invest in making an existing radar model.

Rather, they'll get TRMs and other critical parts from overseas, and then develop a custom radar using those parts. It wouldn't be indigenous, but at least we'll manage the source codes and configure it to our choosing.

So, the question should be where are we getting those critical parts from? Be it China or Europe, I would much prefer GaN TRMs instead of GaA ones. If we get GaN, then there's no need to worry about whether it's Grifo-E, KLJ-7A, LKF601E, or whatever. That's the key.

Does China have GaN TRMs? I was under the impression the Chinese radars offered were GaA.

 

[Zulfiqar]

I don't think PAC would invest in making an existing radar model.

Rather, they'll get TRMs and other critical parts from overseas, and then develop a custom radar using those parts. It wouldn't be indigenous, but at least we'll manage the source codes and configure it to our choosing.

So, the question should be where are we getting those critical parts from? Be it China or Europe, I would much prefer GaN TRMs instead of GaA ones. If we get GaN, then there's no need to worry about whether it's Grifo-E, KLJ-7A, LKF601E, or whatever. That's the key.

What advantage have GaN over GAA?

 

[BATMAN]

Well, another day another rumor thread but one thing is for sure, you guys are Hyper-enthusiastic about JF-17. But thinking logically, Grifo is not going to give PAF any advantage as far as strategic weapons integration is concerned unless complete ToT is given to PAF which seems highly unlikely at this stage although not improbable. So the only reason Grifo or Western option would be considered is for a Foreign customer.

There's much going on under cover.
How PAF employed it's eastern /western assets on 27th February, sends shivers down the Indian spines.