We made a goof, we fixed it, says US on India map

[ares]

East Pakistan was part of Pakistan at one point in time for barely 2 decades -until a state-sponsored rebel group exploited the situation there (a political situation) for their own nefarious purposes

Kashmir since Pakistan got its independence (a day before your independence) has been disputed territory and it will be treated as thusly until the time that the bilateral issue is resolved

the Kashmiri nationalists and anti-india resistance groups are a local phenomenon --and a reaction to india's illegal occupation of Kashmiri lands....therefore it is only natural that there will be resistance, and its only natural for defensive indians to pretend like Kashmir is indian territory --despite the ground realities (which we know very well -despite indias curbs on the media there)





if that were the case, why the noise against Pakistani (and even Chinese) administered Kashmir? If india ''had her way'' then a 7 times smaller Pakistan wouldnt have a chance at administering Azad Kashmir; Chinese wouldnt be administering Aksai Chin, etc. etc.

incidentally, the ''bigger stronger'' india's biggest single threat is the raging insurgencies in the northeast (e.g. naxals) ---and this is according to your own PM Singh. . .seems to me (and perhaps some bhartis here can better inform me) the northeast insurgency is picking up steam as of late.

I'll give the same advice to indians which they gave to us, some years back. Consolidate and control your own territory first before trying to worry about affairs in Kashmir. Especially given the fact that anti-indian sentiment is already high in Kashmir and majority of the people there want nothing to do with hindustan




i havent heard any Pakistani protests on this subject. . . .you are just delusional and think that a few corrected maps or a few words from Washington (which naturally, given deteriorating relations with Islamabad --is seeking new 'partners' in the region) will suddenly mean ''victory'' with a big ''V'' for hindustani diplomacy


at the end of the day, the ground realities are always what matters

an indian-backed blackout of media and india's banning of international press in Kashmir is the only reason why fewer people know about the conflict. Luckily, the rise in social media and online file sharing sites (facebook, twitter, youtube, etc.) has ensured there is no TOTAL blackout.

it's no wonder that the occupation entity in Kashmir --which is all about democracy and all -- imposes the most draconian laws and regulations on Kashmiris....all in the name of ''security''

---------- Post added at 10:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 PM ----------



no need for us to ''occupy'' those regions because sooner or later perhaps, the Kashmiris (hard-liners and moderates) will continue to fight for their freedom on their own --independent of Pakistani aspirations

A lot of factual mistakes in ur post.

1) Kashmir was not a disputed territory from day one..it was a princely state ..which Pakistan invaded and forced its accession to India.

2) Pakistan problems in East Pakistan were partly of its own doing and partly a payback for melding in Indian Kashmir in 1965.

3) Yes there is separatist movement Kashmir ..but we have become pretty good in curbing these movement..we curbed the one in Punjab...north east separatist movement is on its death bed..Even in Kashmir has vastly improved from it was past two decades.

This because because we are a state with a strong center..Pakistan broke into two just after 7 months of insurgency..where as we have had insurgencies for better part of three decades..yet we are intact and stronger than ever before.

4) Problem is ..you guys do not understand we are a status quo state..we do not want Pakistani adminstated Kashmir but at the same time we will not accede an inch of ours ..had we wanted we could have settled Kashmir from you in 1971 itself ..when you were on your knees and we had 93000 of your POWs.

5) It is surprising how aloof you act ..as if unaware of millions of dollars, decades of effort and scores diplomatic bargains you spent to bring US to your side on the issue Kashmir ...forget about recently souring relations between you and US ...but US did not support your stand ..even best of your days..even though you mortgaged your entire country for their cause. This is the weigh of Indian diplomacy ie The Ground reality.

Another ground reality being your passport ..where you still need an Indian visa to visit Kashmir..where as I can get up and go there any time I want.

 

[Xeric]

this is hilarious.....the indians make a thread on the subject then wait in agony, praying it will become a troll-fest...and then PDF's resident bhartis wonder why we laugh and ridicule them all the time

so the US stated that it wont be party to the bilateral dispute and it corrected a map to RIGHTLY show the territory as disputed.....so what's the problem here and what is there new to report?

Unfortunately the indian sensibilities (as regards to their maps) have been molested many times over, not only by the US but by other countries as well:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...49-iok-pakistan-nokia-maps-slammed-india.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...website-omits-j-k-arunachal-part-india-8.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/37113-google-map-cedes-indian-himalayan-state-china.html

China's online mapping service shows Arunachal Pradesh as its part - India - DNA

Indian railway map shows Delhi in Pakistan at Maharaja Express flag off

The Hindu : Andhra Pradesh / Hyderabad News : Google gets Indian map wrong

Indiantelevision.com > News Headlines > Govt warns National Geographic for showing wrong map of India

https://groups.google.com/a/googlep...category-topic/maps/base-map-data/dwDyUXv_uo4

So it's not surprising to see them 'rejoicing' the moment - pretty sensitive issue for them. Being guud neighbors we must let them make the most out of it.

So guys, where's the Dahi Handi, you have been acting like Bal Gopals lately, eh?

 

[Killswitch]

Not all Indians care about maps. I don't care at all. The position on the ground matters more than any map.

 

[The HBS Guy]

Another ground reality being your passport ..where you still need an Indian visa to visit Kashmir..where as I can get up and go there any time I want.

That was evil.

 

[53fd]

I don't know why Indians want others to depict a region that is under no Indian control/presence as a part of India. I don't know why Indians don't want others to depict the ground reality. No area depicted on maps by Pakistan is under the control of another nation.

 

[karan.1970]

A lot of factual mistakes in ur post.

1) Kashmir was not a disputed territory from day one..it was a princely state ..which Pakistan invaded and forced its accession to India.

2) Pakistan problems in East Pakistan were partly of its own doing and partly a payback for melding in Indian Kashmir in 1965.

3) Yes there is separatist movement Kashmir ..but we have become pretty good in curbing these movement..we curbed the one in Punjab...north east separatist movement is on its death bed..Even in Kashmir has vastly improved from it was past two decades.

This because because we are a state with a strong center..Pakistan broke into two just after 7 months of insurgency..where as we have had insurgencies for better part of three decades..yet we are intact and stronger than ever before.

4) Problem is ..you guys do not understand we are a status quo state..we do not want Pakistani adminstated Kashmir but at the same time we will not accede an inch of ours ..had we wanted we could have settled Kashmir from you in 1971 itself ..when you were on your knees and we had 93000 of your POWs.

5) It is surprising how aloof you act ..as if unaware of millions of dollars, decades of effort and scores diplomatic bargains you spent to bring US to your side on the issue Kashmir ...forget about recently souring relations between you and US ...but US did not support your stand ..even best of your days..even though you mortgaged your entire country for their cause. This is the weigh of Indian diplomacy ie The Ground reality.

Another ground reality being your passport ..where you still need an Indian visa to visit Kashmir..where as I can get up and go there any time I want.

The Post of the thread...

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

1) Kashmir was not a disputed territory from day one..it was a princely state ..which Pakistan invaded and forced its accession to India.

it was a princely state in which indian intervention was called for by an illegitimate british-installed ruler who had no legitimacy amongst the masses (hence the upheavals and insurrections)

2) Pakistan problems in East Pakistan were partly of its own doing and partly a payback for melding in Indian Kashmir in 1965.

‘meddling’ in OCCUPIED Kashmir is a perception of indians; fact of the matter is that the Kashmiri uprisings are a purely Kashmiri phenomenon.

3) Yes there is separatist movement Kashmir ..but we have become pretty good in curbing these movement..we curbed the one in Punjab...

Through the use of AFSPA, through the use of fake encounters and quickly dumping innocent protestors in mass graves….i could go on and on, but anybody with half a brain could gain insights using resources readily available to them and to the world

north east separatist movement is on its death bed..Even in Kashmir has vastly improved from it was past two decades.

Northeast is your own home-grown problem; in Kashmir many former militants are using alternate means at least to get awareness about their plight. Doesn’t mean the problem isn’t there and can be wished away. There’s a reason why plebiscite scares the shyte out of indians

This because because we are a state with a strong center..Pakistan broke into two just after 7 months of insurgency..

7 months???

where as we have had insurgencies for better part of three decades..yet we are intact and stronger than ever before.

Most of your insurgencies are actually domestic separatist/rebel groups in india…..in fact, you ought to tend to those since they do NOT seem to be subsiding. Insurgency in Kashmir isn’t ‘indian insurgency’ – it’s insurgency in land occupied (and claimed wholly) by hindustan.

4) Problem is ..you guys do not understand we are a status quo state..we do not want Pakistani adminstated Kashmir but at the same time we will not accede an inch of ours ..had we wanted we could have settled Kashmir from you in 1971 itself ..when you were on your knees and we had 93000 of your POWs.

Just like you could have ‘re-captured’ all of Pakistan, right?

more for the dreams and wild imaginations indians are 'famous' for

5) It is surprising how aloof you act ..as if unaware of millions of dollars, decades of effort and scores diplomatic bargains you spent to bring US to your side on the issue Kashmir ...forget about recently souring relations between you and US ...but US did not support your stand ..even best of your days..even though you mortgaged your entire country for their cause. This is the weigh of Indian diplomacy ie The Ground reality.

The weight of Indian diplomacy gets the daughters of your consul-generals arrested on false grounds and gets your generals (with questionable human rights records) snubbed by even Canadians and Chinese immigration authorities

The US for her own reasons didn’t take a stance on the issue; Mr. Obama seems to have flip-flopped on it entirely. By the way, any country with a diplomatic mission will obviously lobby for things in its favour……your embassy does the same thing. If there is awareness, then there is success. Kashmir may not be high on the agenda, but it’s not a forgotten conflict.

I guess going by your logic, American diplomacy has failed too in that case.

Another ground reality being your passport ..where you still need an Indian visa to visit Kashmir..

Well if your sensationalist media is to be believed, ‘Pakistani ISI agents’ and so-called ‘LeT operatives from Pakistan’ make their way across every day of the calendar year

actually the passport thing was indians just stabbing themselves in the foot....it wasnt Pakistanis protesting, it was Kashmiris on both sides

where as I can get up and go there any time I want.

anywhere you want? that's the question


Just don’t go with a ‘press’ jacket on and armed with even a camera….even local human rights activists and political leaders get thrashed and thrown in detention (including recent arrests on World Human Rights Day, ironically)

Malik, several JKLF activists arrested - Kashmir Dispatch




and then they call themselves ‘largest democracy’ of the world


who are you guys trying to fool?

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

Another ground reality being your passport ..where you still need an Indian visa to visit Kashmir..where as I can get up and go there any time I want.

LOL...Good one..!

 

[karan.1970]

it was a princely state in which indian intervention was called for by an illegitimate british-installed ruler

The same British installed the state of Pakistan and then by that association, the country of Pakistan should also be called Illegitimate..

‘meddling’ in OCCUPIED Kashmir is a perception of indians; fact of the matter is that the Kashmiri uprisings are a purely Kashmiri phenomenon.

Think he is referring to Operation Gibraltar

Through the use of AFSPA, through the use of fake encounters and quickly dumping innocent protestors in mass graves….i could go on and on, but anybody with half a brain could gain insights using resources readily available to them and to the world

What ever it takes mate.. Every traitor deserves the bullet he gets.. Irrespective of the religion, sex or age...

Just like you could have ‘re-captured’ all of Pakistan, right?

Why would we want to recapture Pakistan. If we did that, all the mess you are in would have been our mess... We are pretty happy just watching it..

From a distance though

The weight of Indian diplomacy gets the daughters of your consul-generals arrested on false grounds and gets your generals (with questionable human rights records) snubbed by even Canadians and Chinese immigration authorities

Thats the best you can come up with?? Still better than having the head of your intelligence agency being issued summons in a case of causing death by terrorism ... Or having an ex president as a declared fugitive...

Well if your sensationalist media is to be believed, ‘Pakistani ISI agents’ and so-called ‘LeT operatives from Pakistan’ make their way across every day of the calendar year

Yeah.. Thats a different thing though.. Indian Army for their own reasons have designated Kashmir as a transit stop over for the flight to Jahanumm for certain specific kinds of Pakistani citizens. The transit visa is issued on Indian govt's expense on arrival..

Just don’t go with a ‘press’ jacket on and armed with even a camera….even local human rights activists and political leaders get thrashed and thrown in detention (including recent arrests on World Human Rights Day, ironically)

and then they call themselves ‘largest democracy’ of the world


who are you guys trying to fool?

Pretty rich coming from the citizen of a country, where your own citizens and journalists are regularly assassinated, allegedly by your own intelligence (sic) agency...

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

how its indian defeat??

militancy have been declined and its opposite in your case

since the beginning of the conflict, i have heard of no anti-Pakistan militancy in Kashmir.....the Kashmiri struggle is indian-centric, and given years of rapes, tortures, mass killings, mass graves and fake encounters with civilians (dubbed as ''militants'') the animosity and rage seem pretty justified

if some foreign soldier broke into my home and took away my brother -- i'd resort to the rifle. In that sense, the Kashmiris have shown some incredible restraint, despite their situation.

 

[karan.1970]

if some foreign soldier broke into my home and took away my brother -- i'd resort to the rifle. In that sense, the Kashmiris have shown some incredible restraint, despite their situation.

For once I agree with you.. And the fact that the insurgency is Kashmir is very localized and scattered and most terrorists shot dead by the Sec forces are Pakistani citizens, it proves that the stories of so called murders and rapes are hugely over exaggerated by Pakistani media mostly...

Though the situation in Kashmir today reminds me of the last years of Khalistan insurgency towards the end of 1980's

 

[somebozo]

the NATO blockade is seriously hurting..this was a cheap and weak comeback!

 

[Executioner]

Who cares what US and India says.

The only people whose views matter are the Kashmiris.

WoW Indian dogs are very strong they handle all situation without the help of Indian Army or any arms.. after all they are Indian.

 

[VelocuR]

I saw the maps fixed by US. It doesn't look much differences in minor changes.

How thrilled by Indians !

 

[The HBS Guy]

Though the situation in Kashmir today reminds me of the last years of Khalistan insurgency towards the end of 1980's

Such is the fate of insurgencies against any state; for the state has nearly unlimited resources at its disposal.

Insurgencies succeed against 'occupying' forces in territories where they do not belong.

For e.g., the British in America, the Russians in Afghanistan etc.

What the Pakistanis do not and never will understand is that while they or their masters (wherever they may be), imagine us to be an 'occupying' force, we fight as if we're defending our home for we take it as our home and our motherland.

That is the difference between the 'occupying' forces like what the British were and us.

The British, for e.g. went wherever they did for the sake of their empire and the slave people's resources and riches, we are in Kashmir for it is not a 'territory' for us neither is it a means to expand our 'empire' (notwithstanding the absurdity of that phrase). Rather for us it is a part of out motherland we're trying to defend from the terrorists from across the border.

It is this very passion that is the reason of our success and Pakistanis' failure vis a vis Kashmir.

As long as we treat Kashmir as an integral part of our motherland, all the Pakistanis can do is what they've been doing for so long i.e. be a nuisance and that's where the limit to which they can trouble us, lay.

All they can do is cry hoarse.