We made a goof, we fixed it, says US on India map

[karan.1970]

As long as we treat Kashmir as an integral part of our motherland, all the Pakistanis can do is what they've been doing for so long i.e. be a nuisance and that's where the limit to which they can trouble us, lay.

As a matter of fact, last 2-3 years of escalating militancy in various provinces of Pakistan has very well demonstrated that when a small and financially almost bankrupt country like Pakistan can withstand that level of insurgency at multiple fronts without crumbling, its pretty easy for India with its huge and strong economy to prevail against regular pin pricks from Pakistan in Kashmir..

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The same British installed the state of Pakistan and then by that association, the country of Pakistan should also be called Illegitimate..

check your facts......Jinnah's opponents were both Gandhi AND the Britishers themselves.

What ever it takes mate.. Every traitor deserves the bullet he gets.. Irrespective of the religion, sex or age...

so perhaps many here will agree that puppets like Omar Abdullah and people like him deserve bullets then

Why would we want to recapture Pakistan. If we did that, all the mess you are in would have been our mess... We are pretty happy just watching it..

so happy that you forget that almost 1/3 of your country is on fire

Thats the best you can come up with?? Still better than having the head of your intelligence agency being issued summons in a case of causing death by terrorism ...

and despite that (non-government) summons, just weeks later American khakis met with him for talks on helping to resolve the Afghan crisis

Or having an ex president as a declared fugitive...

uh yeah, at the incumbent government's request

Yeah.. Thats a different thing though.. Indian Army for their own reasons have designated Kashmir as a transit stop over for the flight to Jahanumm for certain specific kinds of Pakistani citizens. The transit visa is issued on Indian govt's expense on arrival..

well i guess these trigger-happy sissies are killing the wrong people then


Fake encounters are a trend in Indian-occupied Kashmir, says NGO ~ FRONTLINE KASHMIR

Kashmir tense following fake encounter revelation - Arab News











Pretty rich coming from the citizen of a country, where your own citizens and journalists are regularly assassinated, allegedly by your own intelligence (sic) agency...[/QUOTE]

 

[karan.1970]

btw, I so remember the time when every single Pakistani politician and army general used to do their weekly quota of crying asking USA to mediate in Kashmir. Havent heard that wail for a very long time now

 

[The HBS Guy]

As a matter of fact, last 2-3 years of escalating militancy in various provinces of Pakistan has very well demonstrated that when a small and financially almost bankrupt country like Pakistan can withstand that level of insurgency at multiple fronts without crumbling, its pretty easy for India with its huge and strong economy to prevail against regular pin pricks from Pakistan in Kashmir..

Exactly.

For the state has nearly unlimited amount of resources at its disposal even if it avails of them by squeezing the hoi polloi.

Something that happens in Pakistan year after year and manifests itself by dint of their evermore diminutive devleopment budget.

...and that explains why the dead dodo of Kashmir is so useful for the PA Generals.

 

[BalwinderSingh]

btw, I so remember the time when every single Pakistani politician and army general used to do their weekly quota of crying asking USA to mediate in Kashmir. Havent heard that wail for a very long time now

i think that time have gone, 1950-2001

 

[karan.1970]

check your facts......Jinnah's opponents were both Gandhi AND the Britishers themselves.

But it was finally the British that created Pakistan.. So if the king of Kashmir was illegitimate due to his appointment by British, then so was Pakistan itself..

so perhaps many here will agree that puppets like Omar Abdullah and people like him deserve bullets then

Up to you.. However You dont have the capability of doing that deed.. India on the other hand can and has been terminating all traitors that talk of breaking away Kashmir from India..

so happy that you forget that almost 1/3 of your country is on fire

All the more reason for not adding the whole of burning Pakistan to that number...

and despite that (non-government) summons, just weeks later American khakis met with him for talks on helping to resolve the Afghan crisis

What is that saying about Waqt padne par Gadhe ko bhi baap banana padta hai.. (no disrespect to the general).. and then a few weeks later, the head of US Military calling ISI a terrorist organization on public tv...

uh yeah, at the incumbent government's request

Ace diplomacy. Getting your country's ex president declared as Fugitive and asking a foreign country to protect Pakistan's democracy from Pakistani Army.. .

well i guess these trigger-happy sissies are killing the wrong people then


Fake encounters are a trend in Indian-occupied Kashmir, says NGO ~ FRONTLINE KASHMIR

Kashmir tense following fake encounter revelation - Arab News

Acceptable collateral damage.. And like rag sites like Arab News are worth anything..

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

For once I agree with you..

free and fair media by neutral outside sources would be desirable, however india bans and/or doesnt allow for it.....guilt? perhaps...

And the fact that the insurgency is Kashmir is very localized and scattered and most terrorists shot dead by the Sec forces are Pakistani citizens, it proves that the stories of so called murders and rapes are hugely over exaggerated by Pakistani media mostly...

for your reading pleasure:

In Indian Kashmir, authorities extended a curfew on Friday and deployed thousands of troops to quell fresh protests that have spread to other parts of the disputed region.

“We think it is the LeT (Lashkar-e-Taiba) which is active in Sopore (in north Kashmir),” Home Minister Palaniappan Chidambaram said.

But Kashmir’s former chief minister, Mufti Mohammad Sayeed, called the response from New Delhi to the present Kashmir crisis an “insult” to the people of Kashmir.

“Linking the genuine anger and anguish among people here with terrorism was nothing short of an assault on their self-respect and dignity,” Sayeed said.

Sayeed, chief and founder of the state’s main opposition People’s Democratic Party (PDP), was also India’s Home Minister when armed revolt against New Delhi’s rule broke out in 1989.

Omar Abdullah, Kashmir’s chief minister, also says ”anti-India forces” are creating trouble and has asked people to respect curfew and counsel their children.

PDP believes the disconnect between New Delhi and the Kashmir was deliberately being fuelled to push the strife-weary people to the wall and justify the crackdown on unarmed people.

“We have been at the receiving end of the anti-national label for too long and dubbing an entire people as being vulnerable to inspired influences raises questions not just about this place but the whole idea of India,” Sayeed added.

Many locals believe anti-India protests are mostly spontaneous and say when Kashmir is mourning the deaths, such statements from New Delhi add insult to injury.

full article here:

Is Lashkar-e-Taiba behind Kashmir protests? | India Insight

(non-Pakistani source)

NEW DELHI // While the Indian government has restricted Kashmiri media from freely reporting on the ongoing unrest, which erupted on June 11 after the killing of a 17-year-old protester by India security forces, thousands of young people are posting the latest developments on social networking sites. "Curfew re-imposed in Islamabad, Pulwama, Kakapora, and Maisuma, valley witnesses' complete shutdown, clashes reported in many parts of Kashmir," reads a Facebook status update by Danish Rizwan, a student from Srinagar.

Like thousands of other internet users from Kashmir, Mr Rizwan, 20, is outraged by the way he perceives Indian radio and televeision stations and newspapers are reporting the current round of violence and unrest. He accuses the Indian media of bias and favouring anti-Kashmiri nationalism over their obligation to report truthfully. "The Indian media takes a biased approach while reporting the present Kashmir unrest. From day one when a school boy was killed they started blaming Lashkar-i-Taiba [militants], Pakistan and other elements for the unrest without evidence or proof, and supported the killing of Kashmiris at the hand of the Indian police forces," he said.

Threes youth were killed in Islamabad district of south Kashmir on June 29. The government and the Indian media initially reported that they were killed when police were attacked by stone throwers. On July 1, a video shot by some unknown person was released on Facebook and Youtube. It punctured the government's version of events, and the authorities then admitted that none of three were throwing stones.

In response to this, Mr Rizwan says, thousands of Kashmiris have gone online to tell their side of the story while the government has muzzled local media. Since Wednesday more than 50 local newspapers have stopped publishing as the government cancelled the curfew passes issued to the newspaper staff to carry out their duties. Last month, the government stopped SMS texting in the entire valley and blocked mobile phone services in north Kashmir, with an aim to stop rumors and flow of information.

Kashmir's angry youths spurn 'biased' Indian media - The National

 

[BalwinderSingh]

India shouldn't care about this incidents.We had kashmir when u.s or west was against us.
what the fuss now??even pakistani army knows that they cant do anything

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

But it was finally the British that created Pakistan.. So if the king of Kashmir was illegitimate due to his appointment by British, then so was Pakistan itself

Jinnah and Muslim League went against all odds and came out in flying colours......neither the Britishers, nor Ghandi could stop them.

British were opposed to the formation of Pakistan, but in 1947 it became a recognized country. However, the Kashmiri issue still lingered on and in fact due to india's actions in other princely state (which were also destined for Pakistan) Pakistan had no choice but to take action in Kashmir (actions which were met with celebration by Kashmiris, who were largely united against the hindu maharaja)

Up to you.. However You dont have the capability of doing that deed.. India on the other hand can and has been terminating all traitors that talk of breaking away Kashmir from India..

and new mass graves of youth (some in their teenage years) are being discovered again and again

we know it is in line with the nature of the occupation forces (sissies) to pick fights with kids who hold nothing more than sticks....no wonder the people hate them so much

What is that saying about Waqt padne par Gadhe ko bhi baap banana padta hai.. (no disrespect to the general).. and then a few weeks later, the head of US Military calling ISI a terrorist organization on public tv...

well looking to today, they have to pay $475 for a gallon of diesel and their troops in the south have to use leaves to wipe their arses.....it works both ways. They can use labels to their heart's content --at the end of the day they still come running to the ISI for help so we get the last laugh. It means that they are working, commiserating and sharing notes with terrorist organizations then

Getting your country's ex president declared as Fugitive

are you obtuse or something?

if you are referring to Musharraf --- he was given a warrant by the COURTS due to non-appearance. What on earth does an internal matter have to do with diplomacy?

and asking a foreign country to protect Pakistan's democracy from Pakistani Army.. .

a very serious issue which is being treated thusly - as a serious issue. . . if you follow the news, perhaps you'd have been able to note that

we are digressing though with all this diplomacy talks....


how many times have you indians run --squealing like wounded chimps --- to Russians, Turks, Chinese, South Africans, Brazilians, Americans etc. to stop arming and providing other assistance to Pakistan --only to be told to screw off?


so much for your mighty ''chanakayan'' diplomacy ay?

Acceptable collateral damage.. And like rag sites like Arab News are worth anything..

and that's why you will inevitably lose in Kashmir, as you have already lost


as for ArabNews, well it's actually a fairly objective source; if you want another one reporting the same thing then i'll be happy to oblige

until then, you ought to ask yourself why even the puppet CM himself wants the AFSPA repealed while this army chief of yours has other ideas



(Kashmir Press Association has released many terse statements condemning these actions as well.....perhaps they are ISI/LeT operatives too -as per hindustany ''logic'' )

 

[karan.1970]

free and fair media by neutral outside sources would be desirable, however india bans and/or doesnt allow for it.....guilt? perhaps...

for your reading pleasure:

And for yours... A non Indian source as well..

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2004_2009/documents/pr/640/640763/640763en.pdf

Regrets, however, that Pakistan has consistently failed to fulfil its obligations to introduce
meaningful and representative democratic structures in AJK; notes in particular the
continuing absence of Kashmiri representation in the Pakistan National Assembly, the
fact that AJK is governed through the Ministry of Kashmir Affairs in Islamabad, that
Pakistan officials dominate the Kashmir Council and that the Chief Secretary, the
Inspector-General of Police, the Accountant-General and the Finance Secretary are all
from Pakistan; abhors the provision in the 1974 Interim Constitution which forbids any
political activity that is not in accordance with the doctrine of Jammu and Kashmir as part
of Pakistan and obliges any candidate for a parliamentary seat in AJK to sign a
declaration of loyalty to that effect; is concerned that the Gilgit-Balt istan region enjoys no
form of democrat ic representation whatsoever;

20. Urges Pakistan to revisit its concept of democratic accountability, minority and women's
rights in AJK, which as elsewhere are key to improving conditions for the people and
tackling the menace of terrorism;
21. Deplores documented human rights violations by the armed forces of India and the all too
frequent incidents of terror and violence perpetrated by armed militant groups based in
Pakistan; strongly urges both sides to do all they can to address these violations;
welcomes Pakistan's public commitments to curb infiltration across the LoC by militants
operating out of territory under its control, but believes it must take much stronger and
more effective measures; welcomes the continued and determined commitment by
President Musharraf to fighting terrorism, which, it is widely recognised, presents
enormous challenges; approves and supports multilateral and bilateral EU Member State
aid to assist Pakistan in fighting terrorism and in making determined efforts to improve
the lives of the people of AJK;

22. Recognises and supports the aspiration of the Kashmiri people for a significantly reduced
military presence in the area; points out, however, that meaningful demilitarisation can
only take place alongside genuine action to neutralise the threat of infiltration of Jammu
and Kashmir by militant outfits operating out of Pakistan;

Notes that while Indian-administered Jammu and Kashmir enjoys a unique status under
Article 370 of the Indian Constitution, granting it greater autonomy than other states in
the Union, there remain deficiencies in practice with regard to human rights and direct
democracy; is pleased, therefore, to see recent moves in Jammu and Kashmir to
strengthen democracy (as evidenced by the 75% turnout in recent local elections); urges
India's National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) to exercise its full mandate with
regard to any suspected or documented violations and, to lend it even greater credibility,
urges the NHRC to make good the absence of any human rights professionals on its
governing board; looks forward to enhanced progress in this area, and to positive
outcomes from the new laws on child labour and on women and violence;

 

[I spikes therefore I am]

Most of the Pakistani members talking much abt mass graves /teen graves in Kashmir . Ok for an argument if Indian forces/police genuinely want to conceal those dead bodies better they can opted for incineration , even there is no compulsion for them to leave such evidences. Comparatively digging graves consumes more time than incineration. Better STOP ur crap.

 

[karan.1970]

Jinnah and Muslim League went against all odds and came out in flying colours......neither the Britishers, nor Ghandi could stop them.

Still as the rulers at the time, it was the same Britishers that gave birth to Pakistan who installed the maharaja of Kashmir.. Either both are legitimate or both are illegitimate.. Your pick..

and new mass graves of youth (some in their teenage years) are being discovered again and again

we know it is in line with the nature of the occupation forces (sissies) to pick fights with kids who hold nothing more than sticks....no wonder the people hate them so much

As I said, acceptable collateral damage.. In a country of 1.2 billion, a few thousand dead to prevent a division of the country is no biggie.. As harsh that may sound, Pakistan is no stranger to it, either in the past (East Pakistan though that failed) or present - Balochistan..

well looking to today, they have to pay $475 for a gallon of diesel and their troops in the south have to use leaves to wipe their arses

And are still capable of providing aid to Pakistan..

. They can use labels to their heart's content --at the end of the day they still come running to the ISI for help so we get the last laugh. It means that they are working, commiserating and sharing notes with terrorist organizations then

Yeah.. Come running to ISI to find their car in the parking lot, right before they took out the biggest terrorist on earth sitting next to your Military academy

are you obtuse or something?

Slipping into the realms of incompetence, I see...

if you are referring to Musharraf --- he was given a warrant by the COURTS due to non-appearance. What on earth does an internal matter have to do with diplomacy?

Credibility of leaders goes a long way in sustaining a credible diplomacy..You have a president who is not in jail only because the previous military dictator (which equates to a robber at a national scale) who is wanted in a murder charge took out an amendment to pardon his frauds..An intelligence chief who is sued in foreign courts for terror deaths and a COAS who has been accused by a previous head of ISI as being complicit in hiding Osama in Pakistan..

Kind of difficult building diplomatic relations around this lot.. Eh?

we are digressing though with all this diplomacy talks....

Yes.. agreed..

how many times have you indians run --squealing like wounded chimps --- to Russians, Turks, Chinese, South Africans, Brazilians, Americans etc. to stop arming and providing other assistance to Pakistan --only to be told to screw off?


so much for your mighty ''chanakayan'' diplomacy ay?

Back to insults again it seems.. Hmm. Happens when no legitimate arguments remain... Anyway, any further news on the
1. French Avionics for Thunder
2. NSG waivers for a civilian nuke deal
3. Uranium from Australia that your govt demanded

 

[karan.1970]

and that's why you will inevitably lose in Kashmir, as you have already lost. .

Let me know when an Indian needs a visa to visit J&K and then I will believe your rant above.. Till then, this Indian loss is just a part of Pakistani wet dream

until then, you ought to ask yourself why even the puppet CM himself wants the AFSPA repealed while this army chief of yours has other ideas

The same reason Bushra Gohar is asking for the resignation of ISI chief. Or Gilani has been making noises about Military not in Civilian govt's control.... POLITICS...

 

[ares]

it was a princely state in which indian intervention was called for by an illegitimate british-installed ruler who had no legitimacy amongst the masses (hence the upheavals and insurrections)

As opposed to "a Pakistan invasion accompanied with raping and looting of locals"..which was actually done on popular demand by Kashmirs..hunh?

‘meddling’ in OCCUPIED Kashmir is a perception of indians; fact of the matter is that the Kashmiri uprisings are a purely Kashmiri phenomenon.

Well if you weren't meddling..your soldiers which after being captured by the same kashmiris they came to incite would not found their way to Indian prisons.

It is your perception that, India wouldn't treat your meddling in Kashmir, at par meddling in any other part of India..and respond accordingly is mistake that has costed you dearly.

Through the use of AFSPA, through the use of fake encounters and quickly dumping innocent protestors in mass graves….i could go on and on, but anybody with half a brain could gain insights using resources readily available to them and to the world



Northeast is your own home-grown problem; in Kashmir many former militants are using alternate means at least to get awareness about their plight. Doesn’t mean the problem isn’t there and can be wished away. There’s a reason why plebiscite scares the shyte out of indians

7 months???

You are not the one, from whom we should be taking advice ..on how to treat an insurgency.
For if remember correctly last time you tried ..handling one ..you ended up with countless dead but still ending up loosing the part.

We for one have successful record in ending insurgencies...even insurgency in Kashmir is mostly dead.

Most of your insurgencies are actually domestic separatist/rebel groups in india…..in fact, you ought to tend to those since they do NOT seem to be subsiding. Insurgency in Kashmir isn’t ‘indian insurgency’ – it’s insurgency in land occupied (and claimed wholly) by hindustan.

Well in your own words.."that is your perception" ..no amount of twisting of words will change the "ground reality"..that we have Kashmir...have almost ended entire insurgency in the state.

Just like you could have ‘re-captured’ all of Pakistan, right?

more for the dreams and wild imaginations indians are 'famous' for

Really !! is it wild imagination...that you had already lost half your navy, one third of your army, one fourth of your airforce and half your country..that we had 93000 of your POWs languishing in our jails...your country was completely blockaded by Indian Navy
Were it for Bhutto's pleadings to Indira(to go easy on his newly formed govt)..Those POWs could have been used to settle Kashmir..once in for all.

The weight of Indian diplomacy gets the daughters of your consul-generals arrested on false grounds and gets your generals (with questionable human rights records) snubbed by even Canadians and Chinese immigration authorities

The US for her own reasons didn’t take a stance on the issue; Mr. Obama seems to have flip-flopped on it entirely. By the way, any country with a diplomatic mission will obviously lobby for things in its favour……your embassy does the same thing. If there is awareness, then there is success. Kashmir may not be high on the agenda, but it’s not a forgotten conflict.

I guess going by your logic, American diplomacy has failed too in that case.

When such unfortunate yet trivial incidents do happen ..we make sure the concerned party corrects its mistakes along with formal apology.
Now compare that to your own diplomatic prowess..have they yet apologized for your 24 soldiers they "accidently" killed"

Well if your sensationalist media is to be believed, ‘Pakistani ISI agents’ and so-called ‘LeT operatives from Pakistan’ make their way across every day of the calendar year

Not before ..most of them get a bullet in their heads and end up in one of the unmarked mass graves

actually the passport thing was indians just stabbing themselves in the foot....it wasnt Pakistanis protesting, it was Kashmiris on both sides

Point given.

anywhere you want? that's the question


Just don’t go with a ‘press’ jacket on and armed with even a camera….even local human rights activists and political leaders get thrashed and thrown in detention (including recent arrests on World Human Rights Day, ironically)


Malik, several JKLF activists arrested - Kashmir Dispatch

Believe me, even I show up the above mentioned..no one would lay a finger..for I am not there to ferment any trouble or speratist.*

and then they call themselves ‘largest democracy’ of the world


who are you guys trying to fool?

Given your limited experience of democracy ..as most of your existence ..you have spent under a dictator's heel ..I can understand your predicament..at your inability understand the meaning of word 'Democracy'. In a Democracy..people have a right to elect their own govt and not form their own country.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

is that your final submission or did you want to go back and edit out a few major mistakes you made in your post?

but i see a recurring pattern here....pointing fingers on us when the plastic bag of shyte is already in your hands.


at the end of the day, diplomatic - moral and other support to Kashmiris will remain unabated; and the Kashmiris --with whom we share many ties and common bonds -- will continue to accept it.....even those who are not necessarily pro-Pakistan