We Don’t Seek Benevolence, But Don’t Malign us Either – Part I

[VCheng]

X - jo fauj kay khalaf hai wo fauj kay khalaf hai - carry on!

Yessir!

But please note that that jo fauj kay khilaaf bolta hey, zaroori nahi keh woh mulk kay bhi khilaaf hey.

Haq baat bolni chahiye.

And here`s my post 41:

............
Cheng, you know i am guud at providing specifics as opposed to you who ask vague questions.

Here:

When Government of Balochistan (the mighty CM himself) wrote to Commander Southern Command, Quetta asking, rather ordering him to assist his Commissioners, Deputy Commissioners and Mines and Minerals Department of Balochistan in the Chamalang Coal Mines Projects, first by clearing the area from land mines, than by providing security to the labors and locals from Khair Bhakhash Marri and than ofcourse as Army has a credibility, he also asked the Army to resolve the dispute between Lunni and Marri Tribes, as they just wont listen to the civilian bureaucracy, as per the Constitution of Pakistan that you seem so unaware of, the GoB was supposed to pay for the fuel, wear and tear of military equipment and axillary expenditures being done by the military during the development process through a thing known as IS expenditure.

But guess what, just as we were in mid way, the mighty civilians showed their inability to recoup the expenditure done by the military. A point came where the CM felt sorry and his ilks decided to wind up the project, thereby closing the LARGEST COALMINES IN SOUTH ASIA which had already remained closed for the past 50 years.

Guess what Army said, we will do it from our side and you can recoup us latter when the project is up. The MoI, MoI etc got into work, President and the PM sanctioned the move and the project succeeded.

The result: 50000 Balochistanis got job, a Jungle was lit up through electricity, those who were hurling stones at military and police became milioners overnight, peace prevailed, 500 plus Pakistani citizens who were killed as a result of the dispute between Lunni (Pathans) and Balochis (Marris) were each paid 0.5 million as compsation, even though they have killed each other, not by outsiders, 5000 Balochi and Pathan students started receiving FREE education - this was Army's idea alone, we made sure that this condition is added in the contract, each year 10-15 students go to colleges like NUST out of these 5K.

Now how did the Army managed funds, well the GOC banned use of all military vehicles even for official purposes, the fuel thus saved was utilized for the project, stationary fund was cut to half, the remainder went to the project, Army rations were utilized to feed the labors who were to be fed by the govt at the beginning, leave of soldiers was curtailed so that they can work extra for the project and so on and so forth.




You got the complete answer in a detailed response to the same very post as seen above, where i told rather explained you how these soldiers `starve.`

But you still accused me of ignoring the question.

So, please do carry on smoking, Sir. Must be some real guud shyt that still manages to keep you aloof to the happenings around you even when more than half of the posts in this threads are yours.

You did ignore the quesiton. No where do you mention Swat in your answer, and no where are you able to prove your claim of "starvation", which is of course is prolonged deprivation of nutrition. Merely saying that "Army rations were utilized to feed the labors who were to be fed by the govt at the beginning" does not mean that soldiers were starved.

My point stands, Sir. Your sob story about "starving soldiers in Swat" so that Swatis can go to school is simply incorrect, and you have failed to respond adequately upon being called out on it.

Like Sir FM17 said, please do carry on.

 

[forcetrip]

Ah yes, the tired argument that only "patriots" come back. Please do consider that it could easily be argued that people, having created the security of a "backup" western nationality, are back in Pakistan to mint money by taking advantage of the corrupt system there, not because of the element of patriotism, but because of the element of opportunism. I am sorry if that sounds blunt, but it is not far off from the truth.

Most "patriots" are vociferous simply because they are benefiting, directly or indirectly, from the gravy train of corruption that is Pakistan these days. Another group is the "patriots-until-they-are-successful-in-leaving", plus a small "patriots-because-they-can't-leave", and my favorite, the "tried-but-failed-to-leave-therefore-bitterly-anti-western patriots".

Please specifically note that I am not saying that you, or anyone else, is in one category or the other, and I do not mean any disrespect.

Really .. I love how you have put this as fact.. You slap me on my face with being a paper tiger .. The people you talk about do not ask other literate and smart people to come and help them build a nation instead of contradicting on a website. We need you here instead of being a spokesman for fox news. I do understand that you are probably laughing at the notion to become a Pakistani but you will soon realize you are nothing else.

 

[Xeric]

You did ignore the quesiton. No where do you mention Swat in your answer, and no where are you able to prove your claim of "starvation", which is of course is prolonged deprivation of nutrition. Merely saying that "Army rations were utilized to feed the labors who were to be fed by the govt at the beginning" does not mean that soldiers were starved.

My point stands, Sir. Your sob story about "starving soldiers in Swat" so that Swatis can go to school is simply incorrect, and you have failed to respond adequately upon being called out on it.

Like Sir FM17 said, please do carry on.

Though we can see that you have a poor attention span, but we never knew that you were equally bad at English!

This is how you quantified your question further in the next post which was related to post 33:

Merely a sob story. Starving soldiers? Specifics please.

In the same post you also asked this:

Another sob sotry. Specifics please.

In response to this which i said:

Reducing office expenditure and deserting the same for Balochistanis.

So two similar questions, requiring a common answer and hence i replied you with a reference to Chamalang (a classic case study). i could have done so by citing examples from Swat, Siachen, Sindh even Kashmir, and could even do it now, but i used Balochistan`s example as it is what remains more pertinent on PDF especially when i have written on it and people like you have read it (i.e have background knowledge from my understanding - many large thread exists on topic and you have also gone through my writeup in this regard on my blog) . This is called common sense, which evidently aint your specialty.

Now send those rizlas over, i too need something strong

 

[Xeric]

Sir, please pardon my ignorance..or naivety....but as I understand..all others except pension are one time payment..

Yes they are one time payments.

So, if the young soldier died at the age of 24..and he is not eligible for pension..and say he has a wife or a small kid...how is his family going to survive for the rest of their lives..if they dont get an amount(even though a small amount) each month?.. ..

If he died during a war or an active operation (i.e. declared as an Operational Area as per MO Directorate) only then he will be eligible for family pension.

If he dies elsewhere, he wont get pension, only those one time emoluments, if his service is less than 15 years (last time i said 10, which was incorrect as 10 years limit is for Medically Boarded out soldiers, not those who die or retire.

These days, many soldiers are dying young, while fighting in tribal areas...so what abt their families?

They will get pension, which though will be at `full`rate, but as their service probably will be quite less, so it is a very meager amount.

They might also get a small plot (2-3 marlas) in DHA, but only if they are Shaheed during an operation as defined by me earlier.

I got to know....One of my mother's distant relative's son also died in cross border shelling from Afghanistan..2-3 months ago and he was very young.. He got married one and a half yr ago and had a son of six months.. what abt his family now..if he wasnt eligible for pension? Pension is good bcoz u get an amount each month...for survival, a family needs money each month..esp for children...they have monthly expenses..like for school fees and other expenses..i am not saying tht pension amount should be much..even though small but it shd be there for each family....

i can understand, the question is, can the fauj haters do the sameÉ

 

[VCheng]

Really .. I love how you have put this as fact.. You slap me on my face with being a paper tiger .. The people you talk about do not ask other literate and smart people to come and help them build a nation instead of contradicting on a website. We need you here instead of being a spokesman for fox news. I do understand that you are probably laughing at the notion to become a Pakistani but you will soon realize you are nothing else.

Firstly, I hate FoxNews just as much as RT.

And why laugh at who I am, a proud Pakistani and American? I am perfectly fine with that.

Anyways, back to the topic:

The title "We Don’t Seek Benevolence, But Don’t Malign us Either" is pretty broad, but it should be realized that valid criticisms need to be defended without resorting to personal attacks, or doubting the sincerity, patriotism, motives or nationalities. Criticisms are not malignment.

I hope the discussion will meet those standards, although I have my doubts.

 

[MastanKhan]

Thank you for that response.

The reason I asked the question was to point out that on one hand, the OP states that "soldiers are not aliens. In fact they hail from the same villages and cities, have been schooled in local institutions as most Pakistanis, and been brought up in a similar environment" and then on the other goes on to justify the housing benefits accrued to them as part of military service, which would be fine if the rest of the society that gives rise to the soldiers is also able to enjoy similar securities.

The fact that such defense of Army's policies is a clear indication that increasing numbers of society feel left out to the extent of openly questioning the cossetting of the privileged ones. Unless these trends are arrested by delivering similar progress to the rest of society, breakdown is not far behind.

That, Sir, is my point.

Hi,

Nobody has stopped the civil society to do their thing----. The reason that pak civil society feels left out is because as they are not capable of maintaining and managing such large projects with h---they want to take others down with them who do----.

 

[MastanKhan]

And here`s my post 41:




You got the complete answer in a detailed response to the same very post as seen above, where i told rather explained you how these soldiers `starve.`

But you still accused me of ignoring the question.

So, please do carry on smoking, Sir. Must be some real guud shyt that still manages to keep you aloof to the happenings around you even when more than half of the posts in this threads are yours.

Xeric,

As a soldier---you must know---the moment you start justifying your position---you are opening your flanks---. If you let Vcheng get into your head---he would BUZZ the heck out of you.

 

[VCheng]

Hi,

Nobody has sopped the civil society to do their thing----. The reason that pak civil society feels left out is because as they are not capable of maintaining and managing such large projects with h---they want to take others down with them who do----.

My dear Sir, you are making the same mistake as the faujis: there is no "others" to go down. If civil society goes down, no one outside will be affected. The whole shebang, civil, military, poor and rich, goes down.

And when that happens, there will be plenty of blame to go around and then some.

Two men arguing in a boat as to whose side of the boat should be repaired first will surely sink.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Hi,

Nobody has sopped the civil society to do their thing----. The reason that pak civil society feels left out is because as they are not capable of maintaining and managing such large projects with h---they want to take others down with them who do----.

You couldn't have put this better Sir

Even after all these years of pampering, Pakistan's civil society is incapable of handling large projects. I remember there was a bridge that needed to be built near Lala Musa to connect it to a neighbouring village. The bridge was a bit difficult to build due to the topography of that specific area. 2 Pakistani construction companies were handed out the tender, they took the advance and refused to even start the project. Off course they were protected by influential politicians so no one was going to mess with them. A German construction company was contacted, they told the DCO that it would take them 3 months to finish the project and the price they quoted was enormous, out of our range. PA Engineering Core was asked for assistance, they completed the project in 2 weeks and that too free of cost. The bridge is simply top class, even to this day it looks spanking new.

So what is the moral of the story for our friend VCheng here?

 

[VCheng]

You couldn't have put this better Sir

Even after all these years of pampering, Pakistan's civil society is incapable of handling large projects. I remember there was a bridge that needed to be built near Lala Musa to connect it to a neighbouring village. The bridge was a bit difficult to build due to the topography of that specific area. 2 Pakistani construction companies were handed out the tender, they took the advance and refused to even start the project. Off course they were protected by influential politicians so no one was going to mess with them. A German construction company was contacted, they told the DCO that it would take them 3 months to finish the project and the price they quoted was enormous, out of our range. PA Engineering Core was asked for assistance, they completed the project in 2 weeks and that too free of cost. The bridge is simply top class, even to this day it looks spanking new.

So what is the moral of the story for our friend VCheng here?

The moral of the story is that only the Army can deliver a never-aging bridge FREE OF COST!

I am truly impressed!

How can one even think of questioning such an AWESOMELY CAPABLE organization?

I give up!

PS: At least the soldiers who made the bridge were fed well, I hope.

 

[Jango]

Moral of the story is that the Army did an un-constitutional act, and should be put on trial.

It was a waste of funds to build a bridge on Defence Budget while that could have been used to give funds to MNA's!

(Raja Pervez Ashraf has spent 22 arab in 3 months in his constituency)!

 

[VCheng]

Moral of the story is that the Army did an un-constitutional act, and should be put on trial.

It was a waste of funds to build a bridge on Defence Budget while that could have been used to give funds to MNA's!

(Raja Pervez Ashraf has spent 22 arab in 3 months in his constituency)!

What waste of funds? The bridge was FREE OF COST!

 

[notorious_eagle]

Moral of the story is that the Army did an un-constitutional act, and should be put on trial.

It was a waste of funds to build a bridge on Defence Budget while that could have been used to give funds to MNA's!

(Raja Pervez Ashraf has spent 22 arab in 3 months in his constituency)!

I agree

That money the Army spent out of its own budget to build up that bridge should have been given to the MNA of the district so he could have purchased a couple of Land Cruisers for himself. After all, the money that was allocated from the District's Budget to build that bridge was given to those two construction companies that were owned by the MNA's son and his son in law .

The moral of the story is that only the Army can deliver a never-aging bridge FREE OF COST!

I am truly impressed!

How can one even think of questioning such an AWESOMELY CAPABLE organization?

I give up!

PS: At least the soldiers who made the bridge were fed well, I hope.

No they were not, infact they were overwhelmed by the love they received from the locals .

There is no one who is stopping the likes of Maaksons, Habib's, Paragon, Rafi's etc to raise up their game and start delivering quality infrastructure projects. Do you even know the sort of material they use during their construction projects. Every year we have dozens of cases where bridges fall or roads break down due to the faulty input used.

What waste of funds? The bridge was FREE OF COST!

No it was not

The labour, the material and the opportunity cost is not free my friend. PA Engineering Core was nice enough that they didn't serve the District with one big fat bill. Their job is not to build civilian bridges, their job is to train to fight a war. But since our civilians failed big time over here, they had no choice but to step in. The bridge allowed the farmers from the neighbouring village to bring their produce to Lala Musa which is a trading hub

 

[VCheng]

I agree

That money the Army spent out of its own budget to build up that bridge should have been given to the MNA of the district so he could have purchased a couple of Land Cruisers for himself. After all, the money that was allocated from the District's Budget to build that bridge was given to those two construction companies that were owned by the MNA's son and his son in law .

So the bridge was NOT free of cost? I see.

No they were not, infact they were overwhelmed by the love they received from the locals .

That I can see happening very easily. Good going!

There is no one who is stopping the likes of Maaksons, Habib's, Paragon, Rafi's etc to raise up their game and start delivering quality infrastructure projects. Do you even know the sort of material they use during their construction projects. Every year we have dozens of cases where bridges fall or roads break down due to the faulty input used.

Yessir, I do know what happens with infrastructure projects, both military and civil.

 

[Jango]

What waste of funds? The bridge was FREE OF COST!

I would be stupid to reply.

I see that you are trying to deliberately troll now, goodbye VCheng. Have a nice day!