We Don’t Seek Benevolence, But Don’t Malign us Either – Part I

[Xeric]

My dad was in FWO...while KKH was being built....I remember living in desolated remote places as a child..Once while on the road in an army jeep...a large rock fell on the jeep and luckily missed the passenger compartment and crushed the engine...We were saved by just a foot or two..Then dad used to tell us stories of colleagues falling in crevasses of glaciers,when he was stationed at loari top .. While living in timar garah Dir,i remember snakes entering our house because the area was a jungle..
You and your family dont face these dangers in Civilian jobs...So in my opinion if Army arranges certain benifits for its soldiers and families,its well justified...

The cost of KKH: One person died per Kilometer!

 

[Jango]

The Army takes care of its own very well, and in many ways. The system's propriety or lack thereof is not for me to judge. All I am pointing out is that the expenses associated with the military, proper or not, are simply unsustainable at their present rate, land included, given the sorry state of the economy and lack of funds for social development.

There are a couple of things that we have been listening for a long long long time.

1- Pakistan aik nazuk mor par khara hai

2- Pakistan duniya kay aik nihayet aham chowk par khara hai

3-Pakistan ka defence budget 75% percent hai (or as you say 'unsustainable').

So, my question is VC, when will it tip? When will reach the top of the hill and slide down? When will Pakistan face the disastrous consequences as said by Nostradamus himself?

 

[Xeric]

They are employees of a institution, the institution (PA), provides them some after retirement benefits.

Now, the civil servants also get some benefits, private employees also get some benefits etc etc, so wouldn't they also be leaving out the rest of the society?

What do you suggest then? Army provides similar schemes to every citizen, to the whole society?

You are declaring every army officer a privileged one, which is far from the truth sir.

The company my brother works in adds an amount equal to his subscription to his Provident Fund (PF) each month i.e if he decides to have his PF deduction at Rs 8000/- per month, his company will give Rs 8000/- from its own side and thus the total amount being deposited in his PF is Rs 16000..!!!

Loshay hain bhai.

And the annual interest is upon his PF is on the total amount credited in his PF i.e 16000 x 12.

That is, by the end of the day when we both retire, he by subscribing at half the rate what i have subscribed to, will earn thrice the amount in PF, where as i would be left high and dry.

i dont get such 'perks' in the Army? Why? Kyn mujhy perks dandi kataty hain?

And he sits in an air conditioned office, enjoys free lunch which i barely can afford and likes to stay at work not because he is motivated, but as per his saying, why to come back home so early if one has all the facilities of a home at office, if you know what i mean

Here, a Lt Col (Grade 19 i.e. equivalent to a Commissioner - have you guys ever been to a commissioner's home/office?) is not allowed to install an AC in his office even if he decides to pay the bill from his own side.

 

[Xeric]

After 65 years, the IF is still elusive!

Just where and how is this "good and sincere leadership" going to come from, IF ever?

Atleast not by shyt slinging that one institution which has come a long way and is the most respected and the most trusted as compared to the remainder, even though it have had its shortcomings . Perhaps you must see other avenues, no?

 

[Xeric]

Sir, What type of benefits are given to families(wives and children) of young soldiers, who are martyred while fighting in tribal areas these days?

Special Death Compensation which max out at 0.5 million i.e. if he died during an active operation, not by a bullet while he was stationed in an HQ at Wana, if so, he may get SDC @ Rs 0.2 million. And not if he died while he was performing routine peace duties.

50K may be more from the COAS.

His pension if he is eligible. (everybody does, including civilians who die by an heart attack).

Gratuity (like everybody else).

Group Insurance (every fauji is insured through a system maintained by the Army, the money comes from subscriptions gathered from all of the Army i.e. everybody pays a fixed amount as per his rank (minimum 1500 max out at 5000) which is deducted from everyone pay every month. That's one of the extra deductions every solider has to pay as compared to civilians. Meaning; soldiers are insured through their own and other soldiers' money, nothing from outside. Now a thing to be noted is that one will get Group Insurance ONLY if he dies while on active service i.e. if one retires as usual, let say the Rs 3000 he have been giving every month throughout his service will not be returned to him, but he find solace in the fact that some other soldier's family will be sustained by it

Only for a Shaheed
It has been only now that soldiers are also given plots. Gen Kiyani started it. Only those who performed heroically in battles and died MIGHT get one. As the supply is short and casualties more, only a fraction of soldiers/officers who though performed very well in action will get these. Those whose familes were lucky enough to get one can be counted on ones fingers.

Not to undermine their efforts and sacrifices, but unlike Police, upon whose death the CM announces special compensation apart from his regular emoluments, no soldier gets anything from the civilian office holders.

 

[clmeta]

Pakistan military needs to install a "patriotic, technocratic" caretaker government. And all problems will be solved says the "lal topi wala".

I want military rule in Pakistan, but they are disappointing me.

 

[VCheng]

There are a couple of things that we have been listening for a long long long time.

1- Pakistan aik nazuk mor par khara hai

2- Pakistan duniya kay aik nihayet aham chowk par khara hai

These are things that have been told to the people for internal consumption to keep them in line. My favorite is this gem:

Mulki saalamiyat ko bahut khatra hey!

Internationally, Pakistan was doing sort of okay until 2001, but then failed to realize the sea change that rippled across the world. The last decade has been nothing short of disastrous because of that failure on part of its military/political leadership.

3-Pakistan ka defence budget 75% percent hai (or as you say 'unsustainable').

The defence budget is about 25%, not 75%. Taken together with debt servicing, these two heads account for about 80% of the total budget. This situation is unsustainable.

So, my question is VC, when will it tip? When will reach the top of the hill and slide down? When will Pakistan face the disastrous consequences as said by Nostradamus himself?

Your point seems to be that since Pakistan is still standing, it is somehow immune to the consequences of its failed policies. Well, history tells us no nation is immune to the winds of change. Quite often it is a slow process, but the trends are unmistakable.

Pakistan's population is growing at about 3%, and its cities at about 7%. That means the population doubling in about 20 years, with doubling of the cities in about 10 years. Please think about the ramifications of those figures for just a moment, specially in terms of per capita availability of resources: land, water, electricity, housing, health and education.

Yes, resources are growing too, but are they growing at the rate needed to keep up? How long can present trends continue?

Atleast not by shyt slinging that one institution which has come a long way and is the most respected and the most trusted as compared to the remainder, even though it have had its shortcomings . Perhaps you must see other avenues, no?

Firstly, Sir, please note that valid criticisms are not be confused with mudslinging. Secondly, the Army, imperfect as it is, works reasonably well as an institution, and I have no problem concurring with that.

However, Pakistan is much more than just the Army, and it needs much more than just a reasonably well-performing Army if it is to deal with the challenges that it faces. Finger-pointing that it is not the Army's problem, and someone else is to blame for the failures of the State, does nothing to change the fact that if Pakistan goes down, so does the Army.

And no, I do not see any viable avenues that would resolve the situation.

Blunt, sad, but fair assessment.

 

[Safriz]

One "Shaheed Bhutto" of the perpetually Shaheed party makes People of Pakistan so apologetic,sincere and sympathetic towards them they they are elected over and over again despite breaking world records in thieving country's treasury...

On the other hand PA loses men on daily basis for the country and those real Shaheeds don’t get any Praise for the institution they belong to.
That sows the level of zombification of our people...Where are your brains?

 

[VCheng]

One "Shaheed Bhutto" of the perpetually Shaheed party makes People of Pakistan so apologetic,sincere and sympathetic towards them they they are elected over and over again despite breaking world records in thieving country's treasury...

On the other hand PA loses men on daily basis for the country and those real Shaheeds don’t get any Praise for the institution they belong to.
That sows the level of zombification of our people...Where are your brains?

Could it be that the people that you deride as being brainless are trying to send a message that you are not realizing?

 

[rubyjackass]

BTW, what's your guess? Apart from snatching and grabbing land from poor Pakistanis, ofcourse you dont think the Army do that, right?

Here's how they actually do it:

Procurement of Land. A1 Lands of Army are not used by any DHA. All lands of DHA are procured from market through following measures:-

• Purchase Through Cash. Purchase of land on agreed upon price.
• Purchase Through Exemption. Purchase of land free of cost and develop the same giving 50% plots to the landowners.
• Combination of Cash and Exemption. Partial payment of price and suitable exemption.
• Purchase Through Award. Purchasing land through government upon payment of fixed charges.

Be sensitive all you want. I just wanted to know. We had a few scams with our defence cooperative societies lately.
And thanks for the info.

 

[VCheng]

Apparently, plots are not enough, but I am sure that the quota for Army officers in CSS is perfectly "justifiable" too:

from: Army quota in CSS | DAWN.COM

Army quota in CSS
From the Newspaper | 19th October, 2012

The army has a quota in the Central Superior Service, and civil service examinations are the most authentic and prestigious examinations in our country. These examinations judge the overall calibre of a person willing to join the Civil Service.

Our army was allocated quota as a favour by dictator Gen Ziaul Haq during his reign by amending the law through his puppet parliament.

The quota is allocated for the top three groups in Civil Services of Pakistan, i.e. Police Service of Pakistan, Pakistan Administrative Service (former DMG) and Foreign Service of Pakistan.

The serving commissioned officers of the three forces join civil bureaucracy without taking any kind of written examinations.

This is sheer injustice to the candidates who have to burn midnight oil even to pass the examinations.

In the beginning (when this wicked law was passed), the army inductees were given last positions in the seniority list. When Zia came to know about this, he added icing to the cake by passing a law in which the army inductees were given topmost slots in the seniority list.

They were given marks equal to the top scorer of the group they had joined. This infringes upon the merits of this examination.

Nowadays, the PPP talks big that it has restored the constitution as Zulfikar Ali Bhutto had wanted it. I would like to draw their attention to this infamous amendment by Gen Zia of not only inducting army men into the Civil Service but also placing them second to none.

This demoralises prospective Central Superior Service candidates who are genuinely judged by undergoing written assessment.

The placement of army inductees on top of the seniority list is also infamous among the group members. This quota should be abolished immediately.

Therefore, I request the sitting lawmakers to do away with the unrighteous law and foul play by Gen Zia who said: “What is a constitution? Just a piece of paper, which I can tear apart and throw away anytime”.

IMTIAZ AWAN
Islamabad

 

[Jango]

Apparently, plots are not enough, but I am sure that the quota for Army officers in CSS is perfectly "justifiable" too:

from: Army quota in CSS | DAWN.COM

Is the Defence Attache deputed in an embassy through this quota in Foreign Service?

 

[Farah Sohail]

Special Death Compensation which max out at 0.5 million i.e. if he died during an active operation, not by a bullet while he was stationed in an HQ at Wana, if so, he may get SDC @ Rs 0.2 million. And not if he died while he was performing routine peace duties.

50K may be more from the COAS.

His pension if he is eligible. (everybody does, including civilians who die by an heart attack).

Gratuity (like everybody else).

Group Insurance (every fauji is insured through a system maintained by the Army, the money comes from subscriptions gathered from all of the Army i.e. everybody pays a fixed amount as per his rank (minimum 1500 max out at 5000) which is deducted from everyone pay every month. That's one of the extra deductions every solider has to pay as compared to civilians. Meaning; soldiers are insured through their own and other soldiers' money, nothing from outside. Now a thing to be noted is that one will get Group Insurance ONLY if he dies while on active service i.e. if one retires as usual, let say the Rs 3000 he have been giving every month throughout his service will not be returned to him, but he find solace in the fact that some other soldier's family will be sustained by it

Only for a Shaheed
It has been only now that soldiers are also given plots. Gen Kiyani started it. Only those who performed heroically in battles and died MIGHT get one. As the supply is short and casualties more, only a fraction of soldiers/officers who though performed very well in action will get these. Those whose familes were lucky enough to get one can be counted on ones fingers.

Not to undermine their efforts and sacrifices, but unlike Police, upon whose death the CM announces special compensation apart from his regular emoluments, no soldier gets anything from the civilian office holders.

Sir, please pardon my ignorance..or naivety....but as I understand..all others except pension are one time payment.. So, if the young soldier died at the age of 24..and he is not eligible for pension..and say he has a wife or a small kid...how is his family going to survive for the rest of their lives..if they dont get an amount(even though a small amount) each month?.. .. These days, many soldiers are dying young, while fighting in tribal areas...so what abt their families?I got to know....One of my mother's distant relative's son also died in cross border shelling from Afghanistan..2-3 months ago and he was very young.. He got married one and a half yr ago and had a son of six months.. what abt his family now..if he wasnt eligible for pension? Pension is good bcoz u get an amount each month...for survival, a family needs money each month..esp for children...they have monthly expenses..like for school fees and other expenses..i am not saying tht pension amount should be much..even though small but it shd be there for each family....

 

[Xeric]

Apparently, plots are not enough, but I am sure that the quota for Army officers in CSS is perfectly "justifiable" too:

from: Army quota in CSS | DAWN.COM

There are only 4 seats per year, 1 for each Province.

Seat fro AK and Sindh Urban and Sndh Rural alternates every year.

And though these Officers dont give the Written exam, however they do appear in rest of the tests.

And if you guys are so pained about it, then why dont the bureaucracy and the PM/President change this law? No Dictator is ruling Pakistan these days.


BTW, i dont see this Pawn News weeping about the authority of the PM by virtue of which he can transfer the services of military officers to civil services, why? Pick and chose, perhaps?

Is the Defence Attache deputed in an embassy through this quota in Foreign Service?

No, it's a separate appointment, just like the Ambassador himself.

 

[forcetrip]

Firstly, Sir, please note that valid criticisms are not be confused with mudslinging. Secondly, the Army, imperfect as it is, works reasonably well as an institution, and I have no problem concurring with that.

However, Pakistan is much more than just the Army, and it needs much more than just a reasonably well-performing Army if it is to deal with the challenges that it faces. Finger-pointing that it is not the Army's problem, and someone else is to blame for the failures of the State, does nothing to change the fact that if Pakistan goes down, so does the Army.

And no, I do not see any viable avenues that would resolve the situation.

Blunt, sad, but fair assessment.

The question is do you think if the military budget is cut in half will the situation turn around? I can see the chaos it will entail if that happens just because that is the only organization of its size that actually kept its functional discipline. Ask yourself honestly if you see it like I do being in Pakistan. Lets not pull a fareed zakaria here.