We Don’t Seek Benevolence, But Don’t Malign us Either – Part I

[VCheng]

.........
Everything cant be perceived through rich-poor, me-and-them arguments. The world is not binary as many people think it is or make it out to be to prove a point.

All of these arguments about bad economy and this bad and that bad can be taken care of through a good and sincere leadership. I dont support Musharraf at all but his rule makes a good reference point to current scenario. When he was the president, Pakistan was doing very well, despite war going on and foreigners apprehensive to visit Pakistan. If only Pakistan is better managed, it can still do great.

After 65 years, the IF is still elusive!

Just where and how is this "good and sincere leadership" going to come from, IF ever?

 

[KRAIT]

After 65 years, the IF is still elusive!

Just where and how is this "good and sincere leadership" going to come from, IF ever?

Problem is people are busy in imagining the situation with hypothetical IF instead of finding how to achieve that IF.

Same problem is with India too. Its a sub-continent thing. We won't learn it from US, France, China etc.

 

[airmarshal]

Absolutely disgusted at the name calling on VCheng by members of the forum.

While Xeric you maybe right and others maybe wrong, you or some others cannot talk like this even if you find the questions mundane or downright stupid.

Unfortunately its the typical attitude of military personnel towards civilians. That is why I mentioned in one of my posts that I have stopped meeting even childhood school friends who had gone to military because of this same attitude.

Did not mean to insult anyone

 

[VCheng]

Problem is people are busy in imagining the situation with hypothetical IF instead of finding how to achieve that IF.

Same problem is with India too. Its a sub-continent thing. We won't learn it from US<France, China etc.

"All the woulda coulda shouldas
Laying in the sun
Talking about the things
They woulda coulda shoulda done
Ran away and hid
From one little DID"

-Dr. Seuss.

It is easier to imagine than to achieve.

 

[RazPaK]

I want military rule in Pakistan, but they are disappointing me.

 

[airmarshal]

After 65 years, the IF is still elusive!

Just where and how is this "good and sincere leadership" going to come from, IF ever?

Why are you so despondent man. Chill out. Nations have their way of learning things. Most of the tragedy fallen upon Pakistan is its own making. And 65 years is not very old when it comes to new country. There is a much better sense now than before. I m quite hopeful. Things will change for better

And stop reading NY Times, Washington Post etc. They have been saying same thing since 2001 about Pakistan. Nothing new, nothing good, nothing positive. Just that same old rhetoric rephrased again and again.

 

[VCheng]

Why are you so despondent man. Chill out. Nations have their way of learning things. Most of the tragedy fallen upon Pakistan is its own making. And 65 years is not very old when it comes to new country. There is a much better sense now than before. I m quite hopeful. Things will change for better ...........

Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, every time there has been a change of government in Pakistan.

 

[forcetrip]

After 65 years, the IF is still elusive!

Just where and how is this "good and sincere leadership" going to come from, IF ever?

Again, it baffles me what your point to this issue is. Will we get that honest leadership if we disband our army? Half it? What you feel is the problem can be understood, but what exactly would you want to change? Just pointing fingers at other countries while your army is rampaging through the world just dosnt hold water in this particular thread. The topic is about how the army gives away Pakistani land through a system. Have not heard you comment if that system is proper or not.

 

[Safriz]

All this media hype against our Armed forces are the enemy's "soft war" ..
If i was a front line soldier battling the taliban somewhere on Afpak border and i read all this i would certainly get demoralized..and a demoralized army is what is being created by our ungrateful nation..

Absolutely disgusted at the name calling on VCheng by members of the forum.

While Xeric you maybe right and others maybe wrong, you or some others cannot talk like this even if you find the questions mundane or downright stupid.

when an argument becomes circular , these type of behaviours do come up as nothing positive remains to be said..Everything has been answered...Fun time now.

 

[Safriz]

I want military rule in Pakistan, but they are disappointing me.

Me too..Martial law please and a proper Ayyub Khan and general Zia type Martial Law..Not Mush's law in which he tried to do something new...take politicians with them and they kept him Busy in leg puling...

Why i say that becuase iseen martial laws and i seen democrazys...Martial laws are way better for people of Pakistan...Statistics speak for themselves and so do the ground realities..

 

[airmarshal]

Me too..Martial law please and a proper Ayyub Khan and general Zia type Martial Law..Not Mush's law in which he tried to do something new...take politicians with them and they kept him Busy in leg puling...

Why i say that becuase iseen martial laws and i seen democrazys...Martial laws are way better for people of Pakistan...Statistics speak for themselves and so do the ground realities..

If there be martial then it should a true martial law not a soft, soft goody goody one of Musharraf. Pakistan needs a tough clean up job. All these politicians sitting in govt. must be hanged and so too many commercial mullahs. A bloody martial law is needed. If that happens Altaf Husasain will be so grateful he went to London and became British citizen.

 

[Xeric]

So that is the army's fault that the government does not look after the welfare of Pakistani citizens?

It's just like saying company X takes care of it's employees much better, while my company does not. So, it is X company's fault that it is giving better environment to it's employees?

BTW Xeric, I heard that you have to complete 17 years of service to be eligible for pension, correct?

Sorry Nukey, i missed your post, was beeji with some trolls.

Listen, pension is of 4 type: Retiring, Invalid, Compensation and Superannuation, each having its own criterion. Too give you the crux, anyone retiring/dismissed before completing 10 years of service is ineligible for pension benefits. So you have to get thrashed around for a atleast a decade (for which chances are not very bright these days, say thanx to WoT) before you can even earn your pension, what to talk about a plot.

 

[Xeric]

Absolutely disgusted at the name calling on VCheng by members of the forum.

While Xeric you maybe right and others maybe wrong, you or some others cannot talk like this even if you find the questions mundane or downright stupid.

Nai, tu lori sunana shoru kar dyta hn phir mai?

Though it's ok and guud to behave all sati sawatri behind the comforts of a keyboard, i very well know what human do to other humans in real life on mere disagreement.

You say 'mundane or downright stupid' questions, and still expect a sober reply? hmmm...interesting.

But the thing is these questions aint mundane, though they may be stupid, rather they are well conceived thoughts that are asked for a purpose, which dooesnt require a rocket scientist to figure out why.

And no offence, but i have not been myself lately, or else there could have been a long list of deleted posts.

 

[Farah Sohail]

Sorry Nukey, i missed your post, was beeji with some trolls.

Listen, pension is of 4 type: Retiring, Invalid, Compensation and Superannuation, each having its own criterion. Too give you the crux, anyone retiring/dismissed before completing 10 years of service is ineligible for pension benefits. So you have to get thrashed around for a atleast a decade (for which chances are not very bright these days, say thanx to WoT) before you can even earn your pension, what to talk about a plot.

Sir, What type of benefits are given to families(wives and children) of young soldiers, who are martyred while fighting in tribal areas these days?

 

[VCheng]

.............. The topic is about how the army gives away Pakistani land through a system. Have not heard you comment if that system is proper or not.

The Army takes care of its own very well, and in many ways. The system's propriety or lack thereof is not for me to judge. All I am pointing out is that the expenses associated with the military, proper or not, are simply unsustainable at their present rate, land included, given the sorry state of the economy and lack of funds for social development.