We defeated the USSR, so shall we the US

[Archie]

What if the Kashmir issue gets solved between India and Pakistan....do you think there will be still the same amount of hate towards India???

Who Knows , Maybe Hafis Saeed and Co will begin demanding accession of Hyderabad , Junagarh , Azamgarh , Babri Masjid

 

[T90TankGuy]

Dont think so..
We wont need such a large army then..
the hate may end up being focused elsewhere.

i think i would have to disagree santro , i doubt the generals from your side and some vested interests from ours will ever allow the Kashmir problem to be solved,one asks the question after Kashmir then what ? and i believe, that ,decidedly scares some as they would become redundant .

 

[SMC]

Why, of course we'll defeat US. That too within this decade. Watch it dissolve into 20+ pieces.

 

[Pfpilot]

Revisionist history has always been one of the greatest tools of propaganda through out mans' existence. Aircraft and helis weren't brought down by stingers missiles bought from the very nation the taliban considers as satan today, instead it was a divine act of god, providing the "freedom fighters" an edge in a long and bloody war....that difference in interpretation is all that is necessary to provide a solid foundation to build off of for many over the top mullahs in their bid to indoctrinate an ever increasing number of youth to fight the "infidels" that occupy their land.
How does one reason with the unreasonable? Well, we cant and there in lies the real problem facing Pakistan...as long as we continue to accommodate these guys and allow them space in our nation, they will continue to spew venom that destroys Pakistan from within, morally and then structurally. We didnt defeat the USSR and before the US ever falls from its place at the top of the world, Pakistan will have long disintegrated if the current lack of vision and leadership extend into the future.

 

[IND151]

Look at it this way..The writer may be a gloated liberal.
But the fact remains..Many of these Madressa's, the religious parties that fund them.. the Hizbi guys..
they all believe that the defeat of the USSR was due to the spirit of Jihad.
Well, if one is go by that logic.. then perhaps they should also realize that when god was at their side, he did not rain down pellets from the sky on the Russians. he provided the Muj assistance through other means. Means such as weapons and monetary aid by the US.. weapons that came from stocks in Israel.. weapons that had "Jewish" tech. Did that make them any less effective as weapons in Jihad? NO
Did the Mujaheddin have any issue with taking those weapons then? NO
Would the Mujaheddin have defeated the USSR without international assistance? NO
Would the PAF have had equal success against the DRAAF and Soviet jets without the F-16's and Aim-9Ls?? NO.
(those implying the Taliban had anything to do with the USSR's defeat needs to go read history again, the Taliban were young kids when the conflict was being fought..and the older ones fought within the ranks of what was the Northern Alliance)

Now.. coming to the Pakistani choice in taking sides in the Afghan war.. well for starters, Pakistan was already famous as a US Pony.
India and USSR were close allies. And at that time.. there was a very real existential threat to Pakistan since the USSR was hungry for a port to the Arabian sea, and a war between India and Pakistan would have allowed both to mount an invasion and finish the "Pakistan problem(to the hawks anyway)" once and for all.
So the choice to side with the US, at that time .. looked the most beneficial.

All said and done.. we had a virtual divorce from the US in the 90's..
then comes 2001... and a dictator without holding any referendum on what was a crucial national decision, without consulting any party.. takes a unilateral decision to accommodate the US.
it might be argued that the US was bloodthirsty.. and therefore at the time to avoid having Pakistan become a target the decision had to be taken quick.
Yet.. even if siding with the US was selected, would it not have been prudent to consult the terms and conditions of the alliance on a national level??
No, that did not happen.. the concession were granted without question by the dictator and the result is the mess we are in today.

We cannot defeat the US, even if China decides to back us up with weapons and military hardware.
There is no vast border with China, moreover.. unlike the USSR.. China has massive trade with the US.
The military of the USSR was a lumbering behemoth.. the US however has a military blistering with the latest technology and hardware.
Something they demonstrated on may 2.
Will this EVER convince the delusional?? NO
They are products of an indoctrination pattern that seeks to empower the clergy into being supreme.
Thous shalt not question the Mullah. nor his logic... what he preaches is the word of god.
Guess where this idea came from??
Suddenly Micheal Moore isnt all fantastic conspiracies when it comes to pointing out his fundamental observation.

for bolded part> the jihad didn't defeat USSR.

USSR was facing financial woes since early 80's due to its willingness to answer back STARS WARS which itself was a cunning plan to speed up weakening of USSR.

the period between 1979 to 1989 posed tremendous pressure on USSR which it couldn't handle and collapsed.

 

[fd24]

But US is already defeated they are withdrawing from afghanistan and are going bankrupt

 

[Prometheus]

Why, of course we'll defeat US. That too within this decade. Watch it dissolve into 20+ pieces.

I wonder how canada would react to it

 

[SQ8]

i think i would have to disagree santro , i doubt the generals from your side and some vested interests from ours will ever allow the Kashmir problem to be solved,one asks the question after Kashmir then what ? and i believe, that ,decidedly scares some as they would become redundant .

True.. after all, there is bread and butter at stake... along with millions in kickbacks in arms purchases, property mafias.. etc.
A whole Pandora's box best left unopened in this thread.

 

[SQ8]

for bolded part> the jihad didn't defeat USSR.

USSR was facing financial woes since early 80's due to its willingness to answer back STARS WARS which itself was a cunning plan to speed up weakening of USSR.

the period between 1979 to 1989 posed tremendous pressure on USSR which it couldn't handle and collapsed.

whilst you misinterpreted my statement out of context..
Had there been no Afghan war.. would the USSR still have collapsed in that time period?

 

[pmukherjee]

The Afghan war did not break the USSR. The Soviets withdrew in Feb 1989, the Najibullah govt continued to rule Afghanistan with strength till 1992. It collapsed only after the support from USSR dried up. The Soviet collapse was waiting to happen. Gorbachev's glasnost and perestroika only hastened it. The opening up of the Soviet society suddenly after seven decades of strict state control and the weakening of the massive edifice built on lies and falsehood was too much to bear. The fabric just ripped apart.

It is foolish and self serving to think that Pakistan and the US caused the downfall of the USSR. Did Vietnam and China and the USSR cause the collapse of the USA? The American losses in Vietnam were far greater than the losses suffered by the USSR in Afghanistan. The Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan was a piece of art. It was meticulously planned and brilliantly executed. Nothing like the embassy roof top evacuation we saw during the fall of Siagon. All I can say is that Gorbachev set about drastic changes in the Soviet society but did not regulate the speed with which the changes came about. Too much changed too soon.

 

[Developereo]

Putting in a nutshell , this article is rubbish bin worthy to its core.

Don't bother, buddy.

That article is written for Indian consumption and for Pakistani pseudo-intellectuals who confuse self-flagellation with intgellectual debate.

 

[pmukherjee]

But US is already defeated they are withdrawing from afghanistan and are going bankrupt

Hahahahahaha, what the hell makes you think that? Stop believing in everything you read buddy. Even while the US debt crisis drama raged on, S and P downgraded the US and the DOW plunged and the bloggers ranted and raved, one remarkable event continued unabated. That event was the Bank of China buying up US treasury Security. Now, do not for even a moment think that China bought US Treasury notes out of sympathy or because someone liked the way Hillary Clinton smiled. They bought as did most others, because despite all that has happened, US Treasury notes are still the best avenue for investment available in the world.

 

[fd24]

Hahahahahaha, what the hell makes you think that? Stop believing in everything you read buddy. Even while the US debt crisis drama raged on, S and P downgraded the US and the DOW plunged and the bloggers ranted and raved, one remarkable event continued unabated. That event was the Bank of China buying up US treasury Security. Now, do not for even a moment think that China bought US Treasury notes out of sympathy or because someone liked the way Hillary Clinton smiled. They bought as did most others, because despite all that has happened, US Treasury notes are still the best avenue for investment available in the world.

Eh but they the americans admit that they have 1 in 6 on food stamps and 9.2% unemployment and an unsustainable debt problems. all three of the above are increasing

 

[pmukherjee]

Eh but they the americans admit that they have 1 in 6 on food stamps and 9.2% unemployment and an unsustainable debt problems. all three of the above are increasing

Oh yes, they are down in the dumps all right with 9% unemployment and a budget deficit which is 10% of their GDP. They have to do something very drastic and do it soon if they are to come out of this mess anytime soon. However, it will be tad premature to write them off yet. The internal conflicts of the US will bring it down. Their Military Industrial complex, the Corporate manipulation of the American democracy will bring it down, not Iraq or Afghanistan. The American Laissez-faire will bring it down. Remember Ayn Rand? Totally rampant and unregulated capitalism will bring down the USA. But not in our life time, I think.

 

[forcetrip]

Do people just comment on the topic?? please read the whole thing before typing anything.