We are losing the battle in Kashmir: Indian Army Commander.....!!!!

[jetray]

Bullsh!t! The OP has conveniently twisted what the General said.

So what did he say? This: "We’re losing the battle for a narrative.” Losing the battle for a NARRATIVE is not the same as losing the battle in Kashmir! Narrative here means the methodology in tackling the situation.

I know that English is a foreign language for many out here on PDF, but this blooper is beyond silly! And there seems to be massive comprehension problems too. Or has it been done on purpose by the OP for brownie points?

Mods, please amend the title to read: "We’re losing the battle for a narrative." and not
"losing the battle in Kashmir".

Why do you even want to snatch away the little joy they get? They always think they are winning right from 47,65,71,99...etc. They are like ppl who watch the same movie repeatedly but expect a different climax every time.

 

[CyberForce786]

Fanciful imagery will not cover up the fact that Pakistan has tried for sixty plus years, and in doing so, has polluted its own internal processes, by sponsoring terrorism in plain view of the entire world, but has not succeeded so far.

Will it succeed in future? That is begging the question: will she be around to see it succeed? Because while these feverish attempts have been made, Pakistan herself had sunk deep into crisis. Now that the crisis is being lifted, inch by painful, bloody inch, it is time for you to think things through for yourselves: you have seen the effects of sponsoring terrorism on your western border. Does that not give you a clue about how to safeguard your state further, against the toxins that you are spreading inside your own body through sponsoring terrorism on your eastern border?

Wow, an indian blaming sponsoring terrorism on other whose founding father (Gandi Family) have taken oath to destroy neighbor country....

Yes Pakistan herself had sunk deep in crisis, because we are sharing borders with some stinky and filthy fishes in the pound of Asia and we should follow the strong policy long ago to counter pathetic and terrorist chankiya mindset of baniyas....

Kashmir is disputed territory (I am in favor to openly support freedom movements in Kashmir unless occupation is over)....

1962 dreamed about akhand baharat, humiliated by China and some terrorist mindset person called nehru get some medicine for their incurable chankiya disease....
1965 humiliated by small neighbor after converting Disputed Land dispute to an international dispute....
Not long ago (1971) some terrorists cross international borders and interfere in internal matters of a country called Pakistan....
And create a bench mark of helping terrorists (which they create and sent by them-self in the cover of Mukti Bahini)....
So called peaceful pathetic logic to blame other about creating terrorists....

And please don't get humiliated by mentioning Baluchistan which don't share any border or any thing with so called peaceful neighbor except (Great chankiya terrorist Kukbushan Yadav)....

 

[Infinity]

But.....................Kashmir is still with India.....................and remain to do so.......................
We will win the heart of Kashmiris.................

 

[@RV]

What a doctored thread title. Guys, we have enough man and bullets to keep these so called freedom fighters in check.
These idiots talk about human rights and conveniently ignore the fact that hundreds of Kashmiri pandits were killed by these Kashmiri Muslims, 5 lacs Kashmiri pandits were forced to leave their homes.
As I have said always, Kashmir will be part of India whether with these people or without.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

So there are just 200 Militants left in Kashmir Against 7 Lakh Indian Army Personals ?? Or i'm Reading it wrong???

 

[cloud_9]

Times of Islamabad is run by @kahonapyarhai alter ego. :wink: :wink:

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Stupidly misleading title (shock) but this is the crux of the matter:





Losing the battle for the narrative doesn't translate into "losing the battle in Kashmir".

The security forces have done their job- they have sealed the LoC almost entirely and rooted out the terrorists in the state so their job (as military/security officers) is all but done. Now it is up to the civlian institutions to step in and create a prosperous state for all those who have unfortunately faced decades of unimaginable suffering thanks to a proxy war waged against India. It is now a matter of winning "hearts and minds" and it is foolish to expect security men (army or police) to be able to deliver in this regard, they are trained, equipped and drilled to fight and conquer.

This is where the problem lays- the civlian governments are simply failing in their job by not creating employment opportunities or meeting the aspirations of their constituents. This is also where Modi has made a HUGE blunder by entering into a coalition in JK, unless the GoI can pursue their devlopment agenda with full vigor in the state the problems will persist but their coalition is already proving to be ineffective and fragile hence the turmoil will continue.


+ This also, IMHO, further emphasises the need to revoke Article 370 so that JK can be connected to the rest of India and all the subsequent investment/employment opportunties this will bring.



@ranjeet @Levina @PARIKRAMA @noksss @Star Wars @MilSpec @nair @SpArK @scorpionx @Koovie @Echo_419 @Water Car Engineer @hinduguy @Joe Shearer @danish_vij @SR-91 @Stephen Cohen @Parul @arp2041 @Roybot @jaunty @Mirza Jatt @skyisthelimit @Major Shaitan Singh @sathya @GURU DUTT @GR!FF!N @Syama Ayas

Well said,

Noticing a picture of Agni missile posted for a topic of Kashmiri insurgency, I got a cue how silly the article would be.

Fatalities in Kashmir has drastically fallen in the last decade with Kashmiri civilian deaths dropping from a whopping 1067 in 2001 to a mere 20 in 2015 .

Thats a 99.2 % drop, assuming my math is right

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/jandk/data_sheets/annual_casualties.htm

Interestingly the above would be an enviable figure for Pakistani security forces considering that civilians terror fatalities in Baluchistan alone are at 247 i.e more than 10 times that of Kashmir for the same year.

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/pakistan/database/fatilities_regionwise.htm

Also the article provides no proper data to support its statements

Like a survey of Kashmiri opinions show larger percentage support for militancy.

With overall 3682 fatalities in terrorism in Pakistan for the previous year, Pakistani will have very limited resources of supporting insurgency in Kashmir.

 

[cloud_9]

Narender Khalsa, A Kashmiri Sikh (Human Rights Activist)Talking about ground realities

LOL! Who is he trying to represent? Jammu is a Hindu majority (60%) part of J&K with >5% Sikhs and no one in Jammu & Ladakh think this as an issue.

 

[Levina]

The job of the IA is done in JK IMHO. They don't need to be postioned in the same aggressive fashion for just 200 terrorists. Rather they should withdraw to their bases and to the LoC and ensure the terrorist flow along the border is well and truly halted at source (or as close to the source as possible). Position some SF and quick reaction teams in strategic locations from where they can react when those animals dare to raise their heads.

I think the role of the IA needs to switch from the nodal securty agency in the state to a support element for the state institutions. As it stands JK is a net beneficary of economic support from the centre, they need to have their hands held and be made to standalone like every other state in the union, why do they deserve special status? The IA should thus be training the JKP and the state administration should be charged with the running of the state, why exactly is the IA running schools and colleges for Kashmiri students? Because the state itself is failing in that regard.


I think it is fair to call a spade a spade, the terrorists are targetting the weakest links and that is the JKP. The CAPFs and IA/RR are formidable foes and they know they cannot hold their own against them but the JKP is a very soft target and hence they have been hit again and again. It is time for them to step up to the plate and ensure their state is protected, the IA/CAPFs can support this but they should not be at the forefront, this is only encouraging a dependancy wherein the JKP are not self-sufficent. A baptism of fire is needed, it will be a painful learning expereince but one that is vital for the long term success of the state.

I agree.
There are 2 hurdles to bringing normalcy in the valley
1) Army's presence within the cities. Like you said only SF and QRTs are required.
2) Art.370 status!
Politicians have been backing it for their selfish reasons. I hope Modi doesn't renege from his promise.

 

[Abingdonboy]

1) Army's presence within the cities. Like you said only SF and QRTs are required.

From what I know the IA has already vastly "toned down" their presence in the state and are largely confined to their bases with almost no presence in urban settings on a day to day basis (unless called in by local security forces). The trouble is that their presence is still providing a crutch for the local security forces to rely on meaning they aren't developing their own abilities at all. The IA should be in support roles only, they shouldn't be the de facto security provider in the state- not at all.

For the most extreme situations IA SF teams can be called in or battalion QRTs. Maybe even this role can be handed over to the NSG in the long term, as is the case with the rest of India.

2) Art.370 status!

Agreed, for as long as this is in place Kashmir is treated differently to the rest of India and this will have an affect in the mindsets of the people. Why should Kashmir be allowed to exist as a basket case for the rest of India? Modi/this current GoI makes a lot out of the notion of "competitive federalism", if they truly believe in this then why not allow Kashmir to participate in the same exercise and reap the rewards? As it stands Kashmir's development is being stifiled, I do hope this GoI departs from the well trodden path of keeping the status quo.

 

[Z-A-K]

LOL! Who is he trying to represent? Jammu is a Hindu majority (60%) part of J&K with >5% Sikhs and no one in Jammu & Ladakh think this as an issue.

Lol, so who made him the activist there ?

 

[Apocalypse]

Greetings. I am new here can anyone please tell me how I am supposed to post a thread?

 

[cloud_9]

Lol, so who made him the activist there ?

Self appointed and he gets to visit Pakistan on an all-paid vacation,Not bad!
Region wise break-up by party preference.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Wow, an indian blaming sponsoring terrorism on other whose founding father (Gandi Family) have taken oath to destroy neighbor country....(1)

Yes Pakistan herself had sunk deep in crisis, because we are sharing borders with some stinky and filthy fishes in the pound of Asia and we should follow the strong policy long ago to counter pathetic and terrorist chankiya mindset of baniyas....(2)

Kashmir is disputed territory (I am in favor to openly support freedom movements in Kashmir unless occupation is over).... (3)

1962 dreamed about akhand baharat, humiliated by China and some terrorist mindset person called nehru get some medicine for their incurable chankiya disease....(4)
1965 humiliated by small neighbor after converting Disputed Land dispute to an international dispute....(5)
Not long ago (1971) some terrorists cross international borders and interfere in internal matters of a country called Pakistan....(6)
And create a bench mark of helping terrorists (which they create and sent by them-self in the cover of Mukti Bahini)....
So called peaceful pathetic logic to blame other about creating terrorists....(7)

And please don't get humiliated by mentioning Baluchistan which don't share any border or any thing with so called peaceful neighbor except (Great chankiya terrorist Kukbushan Yadav)....

(1) Is this joker completely insane? Or just an ill-read boor?
(2) The connection being? Apart from the fact that he suddenly found himself with nothing to say?
(3) Not according to treaties that some bozo calling himself President of Pakistan signed. Or does that mean nothing to fanboys?
(4) ....where Pakistan played the leading role?
(5) Did the words Asal Uttar flash across this dimwit's mind, or is he just another of those posters who know nothing about military matters but loves to recite what his grand-dad told him in his cups?
(6) Still inflamed, that hurt?
(7) I get it! He wants to fight a war with Bangladesh!

What a gormless lout.

So there are just 200 Militants left in Kashmir Against 7 Lakh Indian Army Personals ?? Or i'm Reading it wrong???

You are reading it wrong. Where do you want to start?

 

[BetterPakistan]

(1) That is a mysterious comment. In what way will withdrawing troops from Siachen influence a Kashmiri decision? Are you even aware of the geophysical context? There is not a single voter in the Siachen area.
(2) Even for a Pakistani speaking from the Pakistani point of view, this is a shameless statement. There is unrest in Indian administered Kashmir purely because from the time of Zia, crores of rupees have been pumped into Kashmir, to create a small, hard-core body of agitationists who support Pakistan. They live in a democratic India; in a non-democratic Azad Kashmir, every particle of dissent has been crushed out of existence by a ruthless military regime. Even with the best efforts of this hard-core group, the majority of Kashmiris who talk of azaadi talk of an independent, third-party solution, of independence for Kashmir, an alternative that was removed from the options offered by some schools of thought in the UN by the strenuous efforts of the Pakistani representative.
(3) This is what you say. This is what the moderate section of the Indian political establishment was also willing to concede. You have ensured that the position is lost forever by your own trouble-making efforts. Now that Pakistan has irritated the right-wing, hyper-nationalist sentiment in India over the last 26 years, and now that political power is exercised by that same right-wing, hyper-nationalist sentiment, you may count on this account being re-opened.
(4) Only a cynic determined to preach propaganda would ignore facts and distort history like this.

You didn't understood what I mean. I meant Pakistan offered you that we both take our forces out from Kashmir and let kashmir decide what they want.

Go and read what UN said for Kashmir and we are ready to do it and you guys always run from it.

Is India really democratic? Is this the reason you guys have kept 7,00,000 troops in kashmir to kill those who raise their voice? Is this the reason you guys kill kashmiris everyday? Man the entire world knows Indian occupied kashmir need freedom. At every kashmir day, kashmiris in kashmir and worldwide protest to get rid of your India.

Go and tell your lies to someone else I have met many kashmiris and they have personally told me what your army do there. He also told me how brutally you don't allow them to raise their voice.

I am not interested in arguing with someone who isn't ready to accept facts which are clearly visible. Go and tell to someone else who will believe that india is a democratic country where PM is one who killed thousands of muslims in gujrat. India is the worst country in the world for minorities now and you are making baseless claims? Uffffff